Author Topic: When the power goes out  (Read 22439 times)

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Mary B

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2022, 11:48:12 AM »
Abandoning that old infrastructure seems to be a common theme with telecoms.

It is quite interesting that your telecom shares much of the same history timeline as the one here. But being this is more rural, wired services have become pretty much obsolete. Everybody has gone to cell. And people aren't buying computers anymore - they've gone to mobile devices instead. And I guess we're no different. We don't even have a TV in the house anymore. If we want to watch something, we watch it on our iPads, and those have built-in cellular.

We do have a Mac mini desktop computer that my wife used back in like Feb to do our taxes on. And I do use that for running digital modes on my ham radio (I got a new FlexRadio 6400 SDR for Christmas). But for just rag chew on the radio I even use the SmartSDR client on the iPad for that. And that's what most people seem to have gone to - smart phones and tablets. If a person still uses a laptop, that's like 20 year old technology now.

Gotta have my TV(75") and surround system to watch movies! My own mini home theater! And I have a desktop computer running a decent CPU/Vid combo and 3 monitors LOL to used to multitasking, and if I work on code for the insurance company I can write on the middle main monitor, test on the left and have the upload site on the right to make changes on the fly to be tested by the company. Right now it is youtube on the main monitor, this is on the left, right side has WSJT running and FT8 to see what I can hear on 6 meters with the solar flux rising(currently just some locals CQing...)

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2022, 01:34:14 PM »
Winter time when it's 20 below outside we'll curl up on the couch in front of the fireplace and watch Netflix on the iPad or something. But otherwise we're big outdoors people. We have this right out our back door and it's up to us to keep it beautiful for future generations.

14808-0

Mary B

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2022, 01:13:27 PM »
I used to be big on the outdoors, but the more crippled I get the less I go out in the cold...

Bruce S

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2022, 01:33:14 PM »
Chris
What are you doing about the cold cold months when the Diesel starts to thicken?
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bigrockcandymountain

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2022, 02:00:17 PM »
I don't know about Chris, but here the fuel suppliers blend winter diesel that's good down to about -40.

If you want to run colder than that, it's a good idea to add some extra antigel additive.  I have a brand I'm particular to but it is Canadian and I'm not sure if the rest of the world can get it.  DSG 4+ polar max.

Lots of the northern projects run diesel's down to -50c and lower.  Diesel is the easy part when it's that cold.  Even the propane doesn't want to flow.

I'm interested in what Chris says too.  I've never had much to do with the large stationary stuff. 

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2022, 02:24:42 PM »
Chris
What are you doing about the cold cold months when the Diesel starts to thicken?

It's not a problem. The power plant has a 20,000 gallon tank which takes a really long time to cold soak 130,000 lbs of fuel. It's about the same principle as why municipal water towers still work at -40.

But, of course, diesel power has been used to power places in Antarctica and Alaska for many decades. These diesel plants are dead reliable running in the most inhospitable places on earth. Consider Amundsen-Scott, they are truly off-grid. Solar does not work because in the dead of winter it's dark 24 hours a day for six months. The sun sets at Amundsen-Scott on March 30 and doesn't rise again until Sept 21, average temperature in winter is -72F.

Many years ago they experimented with a NPS wind turbine at the south pole. But it only produced 3,092.8 kWh for the entire winter, which one diesel generator produces in about 2 1/2 hours. Wind power doesn't work at the south pole because the place is on 2 miles thick ice, nothing to anchor it to, and the elevation is 9,200 ft with a density altitude of 11,000 ft - there's no power in the wind there. If it weren't for these, life at the south pole would be impossible.


ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2022, 03:49:11 PM »
I had to look in my specs book. What most people are used to in cold weather for little diesel engines doesn't apply to big ones. The fuel flow rate from the tank with both generators running is a little over 400 gal/hr. The engines burn 208 gal/hr at full load (combined - 104 apiece). The other ~200 gal/hr is used to cool the ECU's, rail pumps and injectors and returns to the tank at 150-160F. So even in extremely cold weather the fuel in the storage tank, with engines running, never gets much below 10-15F.

If the engines didn't run for an extended period the fuel would eventually cold-soak, but that never happens. I've run them 10 hours a month regardless of whether or not they are needed, they ran 33 hours in January when Xcel's lines had a glitch from ice, and it was -28F then. I've never ordered anything but straight #2 on the tankers, no dilution with #1 or anti-gel additives at all in it.

@bigrockcandymountain is correct - these things will run when propane won't vaporize at all. Little diesels might choke up in cold weather with their tiny fuel lines and fuel filters. But the megawatt class engines are in a different category and can run an anything from HFO to JetA with no adjustments to the engine required. We just burn dyed-red, non-taxed #2 in them because it's easiest to get. I can order a 7,600 gallon tanker load today, it will be here tomorrow. Or if I order it first thing in the morning it will be there that afternoon.

Bruce S

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2022, 03:54:54 PM »
Chris
I do remember the deuce 1/2 & 5 ton ARMY trucks only needing a 60sec pre-ignition before they would just go ,,, whether it was +90f or -15f in Germany. Remembering your posts from your former homestead, I wondered how well these would do.

During my years of driving my old Mercedes and using both pump diesel & Bio-diesel, I did not have issues with it (Our Winters here in St. Louis rarely see -10 ) either.

Thanks * Glad to see you posting again

BRCM;
Interesting to read about the Canadian additive thanks for the info!!
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ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2022, 05:14:03 PM »
I do remember the deuce 1/2 & 5 ton ARMY trucks only needing a 60sec pre-ignition before they would just go ,,, whether it was +90f or -15f in Germany. Remembering your posts from your former homestead, I wondered how well these would do.

Yeah, those would be old pre-combustion chamber engines with glow plugs to get 'em to light. Most everything in diesels in the last 50 years is direct injection and they start quicker and easier than gas engines.

Almost all ultra-low sulfur diesel fuels these days have about 5% biodiesel in it (usually soybean oil) to provide lubricity for injectors. Injection pumps are pretty much a thing of the past. Caterpillar, Cummins and Detroit have used common rail systems with unit injectors, both mechanical and electronic, for over 35 years.

Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2022, 11:58:58 PM »
Biggest potential problem with bulk stored diesel in the Antarctic we had, was water in the fuel.

We used to pump fuel into a settling tank that was located inside the warm power house. It would sit there for a day or so while the diesels run off the  second warm settling tank.  When that became low, switch tanks, remembering first to drain off any water from the tank low point. It becomes a standard regular daily routine.

Where the water comes from I am not exactly sure.  The outside air is constantly well below freezing, so humidity out there is effectively zero. Maybe it comes from the bulk fuel in the ship that delivers the stuff.

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2022, 12:18:07 AM »
It is a given that the water is delivered with the fuel on the boat. The fuel is loaded in a warm climate, sails to a cold climate, condensation adds water to it. The same problem exists with truck tankers and tank farms where fuel is stored, and the 20,000 gallon upright storage tank for our generators. We have Parker Racor 30 micron water separators on the fuel systems. I'm not sure settling tanks in the building would be insurable.

Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2022, 01:03:54 PM »
I'm not sure settling tanks in the building would be insurable.
Oh we were Federal Government down there.
If something burns down, falls out of the sky, or sinks, we just reorder another one, courtesy of the tax payer.

Its rather the military, the military never insure anything.

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2022, 03:50:32 PM »
That's interesting. I didn't realize military forces had a presence in Antarctica for other than logistics support for the various scientific research stations there.

Back in the day the US Navy operated a nuclear power plant at McMurdo. But in the extreme cold it was problematic and eventually decommissioned. The 3516 Cat generators continue to power the place today.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph241/reid2/


Edit:
Believe it or not, the power at McMurdo Station, Antarctica is more reliable than the national grid system in the continental US. There has never been a power outage at McMurdo Station in the 66 years it has existed. In one of the most remote locations on earth.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 04:38:31 PM by ChrisOlson »

Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2022, 09:34:35 PM »
Australian Antarctic bases are 100% civilian, but the Antarctic Division is a Federal Government body like many of your American three letter agencies.
Its been almost fifty years since I was down there, but back then, I understood the US bases were run strictly by the US navy, with civilian scientists and some civilian specialists, but all the administration and base support staff had navy rank.

Our diesels were ancient 45kVA Ruston 4Y four cylinder 1,500 rpm dinosaurs. They were very old even back then. We laid down the foundations and slab for a new powerhouse which the next expedition were going to build. Not sure, but I think they were to be Caterpillar 150 Kva 3,000 rpm turbo diesels.  Many of the old diesel hands shook their heads in wonder, saying those screaming high rpm Caterpillar diesels were a big step backwards, and would very quickly wear out, and never last like the old solid stuff. 
They were proved quite wrong of course.

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2022, 10:28:36 AM »
Its been almost fifty years since I was down there, but back then, I understood the US bases were run strictly by the US navy, with civilian scientists and some civilian specialists, but all the administration and base support staff had navy rank.

The US bases there have always been operated by the National Science Foundation with logistics support provided in the early days by US Navy and USAF aircraft, in later years the NSF had their own LC130 aircraft. Due to the expense of transporting fuel and supplies to the remote bases by air the NSF started the overland traverse operation back in 2002.


The tractors eventually used for the traverse program are Caterpillar Challenger 65E's and MT865's, specially prepared by Peterson Cat in Oregon. The Australian government also uses these tractors.


https://www.antarctica.gov.au/news/2019/heavy-tractors-chosen-for-australias-antarctic-inland-ice-quest/

The US bases there have always used Caterpillar 3512 and 3516 generators, in the early days the A-series mechanical injection engines, in later years the B and C-series electronic injected engines. The older mechanical injection engines operate at injection pressure of 2,250psi and were about 38% thermally efficient. The electronic engines operate at 40,000 psi and achieve thermal efficiency in the mid 70's. These are 12 and 16 cylinder high-speed diesel engines operating at 1,800 rpm with 4 pole generator. Contrary to popular belief high-speed engines last longer than medium (900 rpm) and low speed (<450 rpm) engines. The high-speed G-drive engines are more fuel efficient, have a higher power to weight ratio, experience much lower loading on internal engine components and react much faster to sudden loading than medium or low speed engines. These engines experience virtually zero wear in operation. 99% of the wear occurs during cold start and warmup. So the more thermal cycles the engine experiences in its service life, the shorter the time to overhaul. They are designed to be able to replace or service individual power units (piston and liner) without major engine teardown.

tanner0441

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2022, 02:47:04 PM »
Hi

I did a four day course at Caterpillar here in the UK, those engines are on another level, they use the crank case oil pumped up to 5000 PSI to work the unit injectors and inject in two stages, small charge first when that is burning the main charge goes in. it seems they can run on anything that is a hydro carbon. We had two of them in some of the boats I worked on. The impressive bit is depending on the managment computer the same engine can produce from 450BHP to 2400BHP, the head bolts go right through the engine to the main bearing caps and are pulled down to 700 ftlbs, ceramic coated steel pistons. even the coolant is monitored electronically, you cant put water in or you get cavitation on the cylinder liners. Tappets aqdjusted with a dial guage not feeler guages. We had a laptop and instructed not to touch anything other than marine engines, the laptop number goes into the engine ECU and if it is found in a road vehicle we would lose the CAT agency.

Quite alien to someone who cut his teeth on gargener engines 1750 RPM govener apeed.

Brian.

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #82 on: April 23, 2022, 03:13:28 PM »
I did a four day course at Caterpillar here in the UK, those engines are on another level, they use the crank case oil pumped up to 5000 PSI to work the unit injectors and inject in two stages, small charge first when that is burning the main charge goes in

Those are the intermediate stage first-gen HEUI (Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injector) injection engines. Later ones use mechanically operated injectors (camshaft and rocker arm) with electronic metering on a common rail. They both develop injection pressures of 40,000 psi when the rocker arm pushes the injector plunger. The high injection pressures provide complete atomization of the fuel and the nozzle tips use very small laser-drilled holes where the fuel comes out. Running a high pressure unit injector on a test stand, the fuel spray is pretty much a fog and it is highly explosive.

The old low pressure injection systems used to spray streams out of the holes in the nozzle.

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2022, 03:40:14 PM »
Speaking of marine engines, this guy crawled into a Cat 3612 to do the inspections on the rod bearings, then got stuck in it. Took him a little bit to get crawled out there with another tech turning the engine over with the service gear.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2p987v

Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2022, 05:58:22 PM »
I am not really a diesel guy, and only really know what I can remember from long ago and that is not much.  I was the radio tech, but we all learn a second skill, and I used to run the powerhouse whenever the diesel guy went on a field trip or was away from the base.

Its interesting that the water cooled engines directly provide all of the building heating through circulated hot water and fan coil heating units.
Strangely, high thermal engine efficiency might tend to work against that !

In summer when outside temperatures  are higher, and its daylight 24 hrs, the electrical load can be quite low, and the engine water temperature would drop to the point that an electrically powered boiler had to be switched in.  That both loaded up the diesel and provided more heat to the water circulation system.  If hot water circulation between buildings ever stopped, the pipes would quickly freeze, and there would be no way to ever get the system working again.

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2022, 09:48:03 PM »
I don't know about the other stations there, they are all along the coastlines. Only the US has an inland station at the south pole and only about 45-50 people live there in the winter. In the summer about 150 people live there. But summer is kind of misnomer because the average temperature is well below zero. I just checked the weather at the south pole a bit ago and right now it is -68F with a wind chill index of -103F. They are in winter there right now in total darkness 24 hrs a day.

The original station built in 1956 only lasted 10 years before it became buried in drifted snow. The next station was a high-tech aluminum dome with prefab housing units inside it. That also became buried in drifted snow and it partially crushed it. There is little snowfall there, but significant drifting snow that buries things.

The present station is built on pedestals and has angled surfaces so the snow blows underneath it but doesn't build up. It is the most expensive off-grid housing on earth and it took 9 years to build it. The powerplant houses three Caterpillar 3512 generators, only one of which is required to power and heat the station. The output of one generator is 1.2MW. They also have a Cat 3406 peaking generator that produces 450KW. The station uses a combination of glycol and electric heating. Electric is more efficient than glycol because electric resistance heating is almost 100% power efficient. The glycol heating is used primarily to melt ice for water. There is no propane gas, no other fuel-oil burning heating at the south pole. The sole heat source is the running generator engine. The power plant and generator room is more than 100 feet below the ice.

The station itself is quite large. It is 80,000 sq ft on two floors. It is steel beam construction with 18" thick foam panels with glued plywood on both sides for walls, floor and roof. The fuel required to sustain the station is about 1,200 gallons of diesel fuel per day. That might sound like a lot, but it is the most fuel and energy efficient off-grid structure ever built by the human race considering its size. Far more efficient than the International Space Station, which requires millions of gallons of fuel to service it, and even to get a person back and forth to it. This is a somewhat of a picture tour of it
https://glacierexplorer.com/2013/01/amundsen-scott-south-pole-station-oasis-in-the-desert/

Other people have done video tours of South Pole Station that you can find on the internet. The people that live in the station in the winter are more remote and isolated than the astronauts on the International Space Station. In 1998 Dr Jerri Nielson, the station physician, diagnosed herself with cancer during the winter. No rescue for her was possible. She performed surgery on herself and was eventually rescued in the spring. The cancer went into remission, but recurred seven years later, eventually causing her death in 2009.

This is a pretty good video of the logistics of supporting living in Antarctica. Elon Musk does not need to go to Mars, he can set up his own base in Antarctica and see if he can get electric tractors to work, it's the same difference.


ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2022, 10:12:45 PM »
I guess I found it interesting that they store 7 years worth of fuel and food in the tunnels under the ice at the south pole, and the temperature in those tunnels is about -50F.

Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2022, 12:03:00 AM »
The Russians are the only other nation to set up an inland Antarctic Base, Vostok, but its been mostly abandoned.
Its located right in the middle of Australian Antarctic territory.
There have been the occasional visits to the abandoned Russian base there from time to time, and Vostok still holds the record for the lowest temperature ever recorded.

Interestingly, America never had any Antarctic explorers in the age of discovery, no American ever planted the US flag for God and Country and claimed any of it as US territory.
 
America planted a flag on the moon, but were about the very last to arrive in Antarctica.

JW

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #88 on: April 24, 2022, 12:39:27 AM »
Heres one link

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,149570.msg1058116.html#msg1058116

I couldn't find the most recent related post, the power went out and I keep a fully charged car battery (Interstate Brand) And have a 1100watt 12v inverter. Naturally I couldn't resist cranking up my stereo while no one had power.  :)

When this happens at night I have this LED light and it lights the whole place up, which makes things easier.

So were talking bare bones here, a car battery and cheap inverter these sell at like 100bucks new


https://www.ebay.com/itm/175030090692?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=175030090692&targetid=1264870805984&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9013362&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1264870805984&abcId=9300678&merchantid=101684715&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIht3Vp_Gr9wIVia_ICh35tQvJEAQYBiABEgK-vfD_BwE
 

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #89 on: April 24, 2022, 12:49:00 AM »
Yeah, I'm not sure of the symbolism of the flag on the moon. Nor am I sure of the symbolism of Antarctic territories. I'm pretty sure the Russian station is still active, but like the Chinese one not in the winter time. As far as I know, the US maintains the only year 'round inland station at Amundsen-Scott. The budget of the National Science Foundation is not unlimited and I think the observatory there is the main attraction.

I have made contact with KC4AAA, the ham radio station at the south pole, once on 40 meters. Back in the late 60's and early 70's before there was satellite a local ham operator here ran the phone patch and radio teletype from South Pole Station to the US using four phased 20m 1/4 wave vertical antennas and a 1.5KW amplifier with an old Yaesu tube rig. Jerry ran the phone patch here in the US for better than 10 years for the National Science Foundation and in those days it was the only communications link to the south pole.

Now, they run the ham radio station down there just for fun, all the internet and communications are via satellite. They don't even have a current station operator down there this winter, KC4AAA is slient.

Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2022, 01:02:26 AM »
That is pretty much why I never bother with Ham Radio these days. 
Any child can instantly call his friend half way around the world on his mobile phone, its all just too easy.

I can remember when just booking ahead for an interstate telephone call through several manual telephone switchboards was a really big deal.

JW

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JW

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2022, 02:18:15 AM »
Ok   :)

Since were all off topic today which is ok.

The original topic was about a affordable temp power. This can be done cheaply with a crappy inverter and a good 12v car batt. And a good LED lamp.

KT Tunstall - Suddenly I See (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AEoUa0Hlso

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2022, 09:27:20 AM »
The original topic was about a affordable temp power. This can be done cheaply with a crappy inverter and a good 12v car batt. And a good LED lamp.

A battery and inverter is one of the poorest backup power systems that exists. In my opinion. On the surface it seems like a good idea. But reality is that batteries have to be maintained when not in use or they go dead. In use, the 12V car battery can't supply enough power to keep even 500 watts alive for more than a few minutes before the voltage sags and the inverter cuts out.

You can buy a cheap one of these and it will run at 50-70% load for days on end, power your freezer, fridge, lights, TV set, radios, what have you on very little gas. If you want a good one of these that's really quiet get a Honda and spend a little more money. I'm going with the concept that it's better to establish distributed power generation for communities to keep the power on and not have it go out in the first place. But this is the next best thing.
https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/1109557-champion-power-equipment-2000-watt-stackable-portable-inverter-generator.html

tanner0441

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2022, 04:42:03 PM »
Hi

What I find is all wrong is the adverts for Inverters. Run mains equipment in your boat, caravan or camper 12V 3000W 6000W peak....

They come with two lengths of 25MM2 cable with crockodile clips on the ends, and if you read the adverts the 6000W Peak is for milli seconds, doesn't say how many.

On the boats I used to refuse to go above 800 to 1000W on 12V and 1000 to 1500W on 24 with instructions to keep the engine running on a fast tick over. Also I only recomended pure sinewave especially if anything was an inductive load.

I use an inverter here on my solar set up but only if the input to the batteries exceeds the drain on them the batteries 24V 135Ah are only used to buffer the system for no more than an hour or so.

Brian


ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2022, 05:07:29 PM »
What I find is all wrong is the adverts for Inverters. Run mains equipment in your boat, caravan or camper 12V 3000W 6000W peak....

Those inverters are useless. 3KW on a 12V system in a boat or camper? Assuming the battery can hold 12V, which it can't at full load, that's 285 amps at full load with the inverter at 88% efficiency. Who's got that kind of battery bank in their boat? That's what they make generators for. 6 lbs of gas in a gallon can contains one hell of a lot more energy than you can hope in your wildest dreams to store in a 250 lb battery, with the engine that it drives only operating at 20% thermal efficiency.

And that is the downfall of so-called "renewable" energy systems. Batteries. They are many times more environmentally toxic to manufacture, use, dispose of and recycle than 1,000 gallons of gas. And many times more expensive. Don't care what battery chemistry you use.

It's also why electric cars are a non-starter. California is gonna ban combustion engine cars by whatever date it is they plan on doing that. Good luck. Their power grid can't even power what they got now without rolling blackouts. So let's everybody get electric cars and blow every breaker in a 500 mile radius.

JW

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2022, 05:17:47 PM »
Quote
A battery and inverter is one of the poorest backup power systems that exists. In my opinion. On the surface it seems like a good idea. But reality is that batteries have to be maintained when not in use or they go dead.

Thats is true but if you keep the batt charged its good for like 8 hours and be charged thru a vehicle.

Also you can run a DVD and and TV which helps pass the time. usually only 12 hours at the worse.   

ChrisOlson

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2022, 05:43:41 PM »
Thats is true but if you keep the batt charged its good for like 8 hours and be charged thru a vehicle.

It's only good for 8 hours if you draw no more than 5 amps off it. The typical 85ah car battery is already down to 50% capacity at that point. Pull it any lower than that, it will wreck the battery or severely shorten its life.

Even electric scooters are pretty much a joke. They are fine for in town and short distances. But we had a couple of them and where we live it's 30 miles to the nearest town. They couldn't handle that. Last year we bought two brand new Honda PCX's. They get 110 mpg, go 80 mph, and will go 210 miles before they get low on gas. Takes 1.9 gallons to fill it back up again. Considering that an electric scooter or car has to get electricity from some combustion fuel source someplace - coal, natural gas or diesel, it gets transmitted over a grid system that has considerable resistive losses in lines and transformers, and the battery and charger itself is not very efficient - the gas 160cc bike that has real power and range is more environmentally friendly.


Warpspeed

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Re: When the power goes out
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2022, 05:54:13 PM »
A battery and inverter is one of the poorest backup power systems that exists. In my opinion. On the surface it seems like a good idea. But reality is that batteries have to be maintained when not in use or they go dead. In use, the 12V car battery can't supply enough power to keep even 500 watts alive for more than a few minutes before the voltage sags and the inverter cuts out.

You can buy a cheap one of these and it will run at 50-70% load for days on end, power your freezer, fridge, lights, TV set, radios, what have you on very little gas. If you want a good one of these that's really quiet get a Honda and spend a little more money. I'm going with the concept that it's better to establish distributed power generation for communities to keep the power on and not have it go out in the first place. But this is the next best thing.
https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/1109557-champion-power-equipment-2000-watt-stackable-portable-inverter-generator.html
I think you really need to have both.
Batteries are ideal for silent night time operation where loads are absolutely minimal, or for just covering a few hours while the power utility resets whatever had tripped.  Gasoline generators are going to be much more practical for larger day time loads or extended running, and for recharging the battery of course.  It also offers some redundancy if there turns out to be an unexpected  problem with either the generator or the battery + inverter.