Author Topic: Trying to get feedpump right  (Read 6932 times)

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JW

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Trying to get feedpump right
« on: December 13, 2018, 02:35:05 PM »
Hi All

Recently I have been working on my steam engine. For any steam engine you need a feed pump, whether driven by the crankshaft or externally It can be difficult to get right.

For my application Im using an injector valve that is fed by a pump(ceramic piston) driven by the crankshaft. The injector valve features variable lift, for throttling.

Volumetric efficiency must be considered so the expansion of water to steam is 1600 to 1.

the displacement of the engine is X volume and the feedpumps volume Y Its an offset that is predictable. so the engine is 2 cups volume whereas the feedump only needs a fraction of that to be introduced by the feedpump.

Every revolution produces water pressure that is then released by the injector.

So what does this calculated volume mean it real terms, gear ratio...

I started using a chain and sprockets, I started the ratio was 4 to 1. This overloaded the pump, so lower gear ratio is easyier on it to If differental volume. Even at 1 to 2 is prefered, remember displacement is fixed at the pump and the engine. Calculate differental displacement and move it 1 to 1. The piston on the feedpump is much smaller than the engine. 

If there is any interested I can post some pictures
 



Frank S

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 03:08:59 PM »
 Will you have an over pressure bypass on the pump I would think this would be required to prevent over pressure
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JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 05:33:54 PM »
Quote from: Frank S
Will you have an over pressure bypass on the pump

At the highest point in the water injector circuit there is an (LSA) relief valve. My gauge only goes to 3000psi and pressure is sent from the pump. The relief valve bleeds the circuit.

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Target rpm is 650



John Bouchard

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2018, 01:31:42 PM »
I agree with Frank on being hyper careful on pressure  as I'm sure your already aware of potential hazard's.  I have just a 60psi fermenter and read stories of those blowing  causing injury and property damage can't imagine 3000psi.

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 04:17:44 PM »
I will just post this picture. This cant not happen When working with a 4 cycle engine because the intake valve cam ensures that both are open in this event valve is open at BDC. In this way the engine cannot explode... 2400PSI

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JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 05:23:27 PM »
We made a small modification after the engine failure... This is not needed on modern engines, exhaust side porting also, can avoid trapping condition.





The injector can handle 10,000psi before self opening.


« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:36:05 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2018, 08:57:35 AM »
Just to give some piece of mind, the large Argon tanks are used for dynamic testing only.

The link points to how the engine cycle works, its actually pretty safe, but you have to run dynamic tests to test how various systems are working.

https://flashsteam.com/steam-engine-project-part-3/

Frank S

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2018, 11:38:48 AM »
Thank's JW your project just became a lot clearer to me.
 I was having a hard time understanding the need for the type of injection system you are using.
 I don't know why it wasn't registering with me that basically you have a diesel engine running on steam.
 Using the super heated steam to flash high pressure hot water into even more steam
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2018, 03:35:13 PM »
Thanks Frank,

The diesel engine anology is correct.

Two things to consider, the injection system on a diesel has a fixed lift injectors, so ya you could run it that way, but you would not be able to throttle efficiently, by just reducing injector presure would do something called "wire drawing"


The injector valve that I patented has a feature called variable lift, primary and secondary stops. In this way maximuim pressure can be fed to the injectors, and lift setting can be controlled to throttle the engine.


The other concern is that 18 to1 compression ratio, is too high in my opinion. Acording to my calculations 9.5 to 1 is preferred, steam has more density than air.

All my patents are expired (free to use) since I cant afford the maint fees. Im just happy that my ideas are documented. :) 


JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 06:58:29 PM »
Just in case someone works on diesel engines- I have studied diesel metering pumps, its not variable lift but I believe its variable displacement. So instead of other methods the pump physically controls the injection volume event.

This is why I went thru all the trouble to make a custom injector with variable lift. </> the flash steam event on that type of system would destabilize the flash steam reaction, IC engines are no problem because your burning fuel

Also to be considered is that water in a diesel metering pump would render it useless in short order. Diesel fuel has lubrication property's.

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2018, 09:31:15 PM »
Ok I've got to make decision, the drive sprocket on the crank is fixed maybe 32 t now it was 40 teeth, but ran the smallest possible sprocket.

Now i have 3 choices for the driven pump. 46 t  44 t and 38 t.

For now I want to reach max pressure hand cranking it over. (which have done easily) 3000psi

I went thru a offal lot getting to this phase. i will post the results for a video here. Ive got like 6 master link for #35 chain.     

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2019, 10:14:21 PM »
Posted this on another forum, but I think you guys should see it too

 ACB R&D misc 2004 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5O7zYJE-GQ&t=25s


JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 06:16:09 PM »
I was talking to some other fellows about the water feed-pump driven by my engine. I decided to archive the link to the part https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-CHVCR4-1/3 So that I can find it again. I have a bunch of stuff going on with my flash steam engine. I will try to get video, I'm matching displacement of the engine by feed-water pump displacement. the check valve is important as to run with minable shock to maintain system pressure.   

 

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2019, 05:05:52 PM »
Ok got the feed pump working right, I can peg the gauge by turning the flywheel by hand. Also the check valve is working very good.


 

Mary B

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 02:15:03 PM »
Nice burp at 2:00 LOL

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2019, 02:58:42 PM »
LOL after I made the video I noticed that. I have been requested by the Steam Automobile Club of America to do another video working on that today, I will also share it here. :) 

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2019, 07:07:34 PM »
I have got my whole website flashsteam archived. Flavio has made a backup CD that he sent to me. Its sent postal and I should get soon. I have a hardcopy. so the CD is sent by mail, that's important to me, I will have it in my hands.

Rained today so I canceled filming

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 05:13:24 PM »
Here are some pictures of the feed pump,

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picture of chain drive

This is where the feed pump connects to the water tank
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a picture of the water tank its about 25 gallons
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JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 06:54:56 PM »
A while back on the "what size blades" post everybody was showing off there lathes (pony brake) here's mine

Its not that big but it does what I need for assembling my steam injectors

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JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2019, 02:42:34 PM »
Test pic


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« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 02:59:06 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Trying to get feedpump right
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2020, 02:29:50 PM »
Good video of burner from stage 4 now updating to stage five, the bonus of this design is that it uses a  12v battery


071818 002a



Some pictures



















These corn kernals are the fuel for the burner, this corn has been in storage for about a year, still in good shape.