Author Topic: DIY Enphase Trina system  (Read 4005 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

petect

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
DIY Enphase Trina system
« on: February 01, 2019, 03:26:31 PM »
I had planned on doing a product review, but it evolved into this:

My ground mount system has been running for 5 months without issues, except those caused by me.
The system consists of 10 Trina 320 Watt modules, 10 Enphase IQ 7+ micros, Enphase IQ Envoy.
The system is set to zero grid export.

Trina modules – Well they just work. Don't know what else to say other than Trina provides very good documentation in REAL English.

Enphase:  I was a bit leery of Enphase, as the company had financial and quality problems.
After a LOT of research it seems the company has made a lot of improvements in both areas. Enphase replaced the people in the top 2 management positions. The new guys admitted to the companies problems (that's novel), and said how they would fix them. Time will tell.

IQ micros:  Pretty sophisticated, and Enphase claims they can adapt to the varied and changing requirements placed on pv by utilities and agencies in the U.S.

Pros:  I have partial shading where the modules are located, and the micros handle that well. Standard inverters with optimizers do this too – as well ?
Enphase support has been excellent so far. I called twice with install / setup issues and waited < 10 min to be connected to competent / patient people.
Installation was basically plug & play. I used the Enphase premade cable. Very easy with no diy connections to leak later.  $$ though
Probably all, micros shut down without a connection to the grid.  I checked a few in my system, and they put out about 1V when not sensing the grid.
Only 2 wires are needed between the micros and the breaker panel, saving some work, and money.
For me, another bennie, was that the local building official was comfortable with AC throughout the system. The GTI I was considering would have brought 500+ V DC to the disconnect at the house, and he would have wanted an engineer's review of that.
For the most part micros eliminate stringing calculations  required by most central GTIs – a biggie for me as it would have been difficult to string the # of modules I bought. Cold temp voltage calculations would have added to the difficulty. -8F at twilight this a.m. The micros don't care.
Micros (especially the same type)  should allow me to add a few oddball modules to my system at a later date fairly easily.

Cons:
More expensive than a quality GTI of similar capacity. Using optimizers bring the costs closer.
More failure points – though the rest of  the system should still work if a few go down. They are wired in parallel.
I guess the Enphase phone app system makes system setup pretty easy, but it doesn't work with my old, bargain basement phone.  BUT I called Enphase, and one of their very patient tech people spent about 20 mins on the phone and walked me thru the process.
Enphase comes out with new devices fairly often which aren't fully compatible with their older products. I'm sure you can mix the micros, they just won't talk to other devices.

Envoy: Their communication device.
It “talks” to the micros thru the system wiring, and to Enphase thru the internet. It provides a per device look at the health and operation of every device in the system about every 10 minutes, including a lot of historical data, and Alerts.
I received an email Alert from Enphase telling me the system wasn't working.  It was my fault.
I find the per-module monitoring helpful as it lets me I.D. shading  sources – firewood to be.
The “Enlighten” web based svc allows direct contact with Enphase for warranty and diagnostic purposes – I'd rather not use this.
The Envoy also is capable of revenue grade metering.


Racking:
I used 2 3/8” steel fence posts set into concrete for the bases and top rails, 3/4” emt for braces. Modules  sit on unistrut. I couldn't find hot dipped strut near me, but would strongly suggest hot dipped if you go that route.
I hope someone finds this helpful.
PIX and updates later.
Pete








 
 





SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2019, 02:49:52 PM »
Thank you very much for this Petect. 
It comes at a very good time for me since I am considering a system like this even more seriously than ever.
I have been catching up with the Enphase products all morning.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 05:42:23 PM »
I'm impressed with how Enphase (storage) has been working for me.

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 07:39:02 PM »
Aww, shucks.  The Enphase AC battery doesn't work when the grid is down.
Back to thinking about DC batteries and stringer inverters again.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: us
  • Home with a view of Double mountain
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 12:55:12 AM »
Aww, shucks.  The Enphase AC battery doesn't work when the grid is down.
Back to thinking about DC batteries and stringer inverters again.
  I am wondering if there isn't an outside of the box solution.
 knowing that i'm not  the sharpest tack on the post-it board  I had this crazy thought come to me about this Emphase thing. I may be making wild assumptions here in thinking the primary reason this thing does not work if the grid goes down is it needs the sine-wave of the grid to remain in phase  hence may be part of the reason for the name emphase. So I was thinking about when I was using a UPS in a factory that ran on 2 generators when we had to inter-phase the generators together whrough the switch gear or switch from 1 to the other my UPS kept my 3 monitors 2 computers 4 printers and a whole office of other things going without a hiccup even at times when the generators had to be completely taken off line briefly nothing in the office running on electricity knew the differance.
 Couldn't there be a way to interconnect the Emphase storage system matched to the sine of the grid and a UPS like with a ship to shore switch gear the UPS would actually only be providing  the true sine matching while the grid or the AC storage took the load.
 One of these smart guys like Joestue or Oztules could figure it out I'm pretty sure. 
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 05:41:10 AM »
The newer "Ensemble" Enphase stuff *can* create a microgrid and disconnect from the main grid when it goes down, I am told.

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2019, 11:02:50 AM »
Quote
One of these smart guys like Joestue or Oztules could figure it out I'm pretty sure.

I think they already have.  I could go into the back-issues of Fieldlines and probably turn up a few stories.
And I don't think you need to homebrew an inverter to do it.  I have a Xantrex 4024 that's a stand-alone inverter that can sync to the grid without "tying" to it.  It is designed to behave this way, and tells you how to hook it up for this purpose... ie you connect "A2" to the grid and set the system up in a certain way so that when "A2" goes down, the inverter sets its own frequency, and when "A2" comes back, the inverter syncs back up to it.
The 4024 is an energy hog when it's not on standby, which is why I don't care to build my system much bigger around this particular inverter, but in terms of capability it's still able to exceed my needs (as a backup power source).
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

petect

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 11:19:13 AM »
Hi All
The next phase of this “project” is to AC couple the system. We don't get many severe storms in rural (by Ct standards) N.E. CT.  But they can result in the grid being down for several days.  After the storms pass the sky is usually crystal clear for many days. I would go nuts, looking at my modules sitting in the sun, and not making any juice.

Enphase touts the ability of their micros to be AC coupled, and gives some documentation (one of which is linked below). I would be happy if I could get 1 – 2 KW out of the system and want to avoid a large battery bank and a hybrid inverter. I'm looking for the minimum necessary to “trick” the micros into forming a mini grid, and storing enough power to do some buffering, and save enough energy to “trick” the inverters the next time the sun is out. And this has to be done safely.  NOTE: They say their 1.2 KWH battery can be added to any size system, so I'm sure it can be done.

I have found Enphase to be very responsive to my start-up questions, but slower to reply to my “what if” emails – I don't blame them. My questions to Enphase included: will having my Envoy set to Zero export allow the system to island safely? Can I use the Envoy's ability to trigger an external relay to safely disconnect from the grid? (see pg 8 of the tech manual below)

I'll report back if I get any useful info, but wonder if they might not want to push AC coupling, as it might cut into sales of their IQ8, which they say is coming out later this year.

https://enphase.com/en-us/support/technical-brief-design-considerations-when-ac-coupling-iq-micros-batter-based-systems?destination=%2Fen-us%2Fsupport%2Fsolar-professionals%2Fdownloads%3Fsearch_api_views_fulltext%3Dac%2Bcouple

The questions are easy. It's the answers I have a problem with.
Pete

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 01:59:00 PM »
Note: my current Ensemble storage system is A/C coupled (several years old SunnyBoy inverters in two groups).

http://www.earth.org.uk/Enphase-AC-Battery-REVIEW.html

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

petect

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 02:22:01 PM »
Nice
Does your web interface have the "Enlighten Manager" option?

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: us
  • Home with a view of Double mountain
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 03:03:32 PM »
 I spoke to my power company a couple years back about the prospect of a grid tie system. they were for obvious reasons less than enthusiastic about my wanting not to create a system that sent them energy but rather stored my excess on site for use when the sun wasn't shining.
 They are in the business of selling energy and were not really interested in any thing else. Not really interested in buying from me even if I were to install a 10 KW solar system.
 My thoughts are why should I sell to them at a real low rate then have to buy it back at night I'd rather store an use my won and have the grid only for my overages. But I don't have the bucks to invest in a system sight now which would do this so I have a small part of my solar running a dedicated circuit which is there when there is no grid but is of little value if I'm not at home  to switch over to the inverter.
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

petect

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2019, 03:43:00 PM »
Frank
I agree with you 100%  That's why I set my system to Zero export. My system produces whatever it can, and I import whatever else I need. (Not interested in buying at $.35/ kwhr, and selling at $ .05 ) The regulations vary with local power company agreements, but for me that means I didn't have to "get permission" from the utility, as long as I followed the NEC. Pretty much the same as with my backup generator. As long as nothing I produce goes out to the grid, they aren't involved.
As I understand it most inverters, including string inverters can be set to Zero export.
It's interesting how Enphase ( and probably other micros ) do this by curtailing output at the panel level.
Pete


Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: us
  • Home with a view of Double mountain
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2019, 07:48:20 PM »
I'm on a per use contract. if I use 1500 Kw a month it cost me .09 but I don't reach that level very often.
 Normally around 500 Kw in the  winter unless I run my welder very much  so last month I used 1250 KW and my bill averaged 10.9 per KW my bill would not have been a nickle higher if I had used 1500 KW. but if I had used 1499 it would have been $163.39
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

TheEquineFencer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Country: us
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2019, 04:54:22 AM »
Frank
I agree with you 100%  That's why I set my system to Zero export. My system produces whatever it can, and I import whatever else I need. (Not interested in buying at $.35/ kwhr, and selling at $ .05 ) The regulations vary with local power company agreements, but for me that means I didn't have to "get permission" from the utility, as long as I followed the NEC. Pretty much the same as with my backup generator. As long as nothing I produce goes out to the grid, they aren't involved.
As I understand it most inverters, including string inverters can be set to Zero export.
It's interesting how Enphase ( and probably other micros ) do this by curtailing output at the panel level.
Pete

Can someone please enlighten me about this "zero export" feature and where and what to buy?

bigrockcandymountain

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 659
  • Country: ca
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2019, 07:12:52 AM »
Thanks for this post petect.  It is stuff i am considering right now too. 

Spar, not sure if you are interested, but I got some quotes on grid tied systems through sentinel solar in calgary.  They look pretty good. 

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: DIY Enphase Trina system
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2019, 06:36:46 PM »
I haven't checked out Sentinel yet.  Thanks BRCM, I'd like to see.  You have my e-mail?  If not there's a button under my avatar's "outlet".
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca