Author Topic: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !  (Read 64326 times)

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topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2019, 12:47:07 PM »
It will have rubber isolators like doubled..to be able to read the meters as the prototype is running...without concrete foundations.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:43:49 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2019, 08:11:09 AM »
This should be easy enough to read.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:44:02 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

SparWeb

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2019, 11:23:53 PM »
Very nice!

I like tidy work - especially when it's got some symmetry. 
I'm a bit "OCD" that way.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2019, 03:37:51 AM »
Very nice!

I like tidy work - especially when it's got some symmetry. 
I'm a bit "OCD" that way.

Thank you...I am working on it.
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2019, 11:02:07 AM »
I got the rectifier sorta positioned now.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:44:24 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2019, 08:26:58 AM »
 I had to put the planet gear back.

I am getting 14 volts with hand cranking the shaft.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:44:43 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2019, 05:45:59 AM »
I am at awe now....as I am not electrical engineer.

How much can be the efficiency of a generator in general ?

I think when I hand crank my wind mill arm....that it isn't converting the force into electricity no where near the percentage that would be worthwhile.

Let's assume that the wind generator turns 50% of the wind energy into mechanical motion...how much of that 50% can be harwested with an electrical generator in the best scenario ?

Any calculations available anywhere ?
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

SparWeb

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2019, 10:04:39 PM »
It can be calculated, but it takes a lot of measurements through the whole the system to compute an answer (atmospheric conditions, rotor blades, electric generator configuration, power conversion system).

It's often easier to just measure it.

Mechanical power = (Torque)X(RPM)/(conversion factor)
Electrical power = (Volts)X(Amps)

The aerodynamic conversion is 50% efficient at best, but often less.  Mechanical conversion to electricity can vary between 70% and 20% depending on the generator.  The one I'm using varies between about 50% at low speeds to 40% at higher speeds.  I pay a price for robustness.  I remember when Kitestrings published info about his alternator build (about 5 years ago) I was impressed by its efficiency. Though I don't remember the exact value it was quite high.

When converting mechanical to electrical energy, the majority of energy lost goes to resistance heat.  If the windings have 10 ohms resistance, then passing 10 amps through them releases 1000 Watts as heat.  If the same generator had reached 100 Volts as a result of that work, then it generates 1000W of useful electric energy.  The sum of the two outputs (useful and non-useful energy) requires 2000 Watts of mechanical power at the driveshaft to make it.  And my example generator would be 50% efficient.

I simplified my example so that I wouldn't have to consider 3-phases and rectifiers.  They have a role to play in practical generators, but I hope the example is complete enough to get the idea across.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2019, 02:07:03 PM »
Yes SW !

I appreciate this answer.

---

Picture below..is now 100 watt H7 halogen in my system.

This is doing 12,5 volts and 5.2 amps by hand cranking it.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:45:12 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2019, 12:06:30 AM »
Great looking location overlooking what I presume is an ocean in the background. Do you experience corrosion problems with the salt air?

Here are my locations....very secretive as I have not patented my innovations on it.

It is in the north part of the Baltic Sea.....50 KM from City of Oulu by car.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:45:25 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

DanG

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2019, 09:43:22 AM »

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2019, 04:18:06 PM »
Yes and the Island is west of it..south west slightly.

There is an old nazi build airfield on test site 3.

During WW II..nazi's occupied northern Finland.

In Oulu there was a big german garrison as well.

-------

My daughter brought me 2 small jam jars from Rome the other day. I recycled them.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:45:55 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

SparWeb

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2019, 01:35:25 AM »
It's coming together all right.
Just for information (I can't be sure if you know about this already) lamps are variable loads in electric circuits.  The resistance of the filament varies as it heats up.  I'm not even sure if Halogen lights are as bad as the incandescent ones.  But heat plays a role and it has interesting effects.  It can make you stop believing in Ohm's law until you consider that effect.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

MattM

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2019, 01:06:11 AM »
Are you going to use a little S glass cloth and epoxy to skin your blades?

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2019, 02:48:59 AM »
Are you going to use a little S glass cloth and epoxy to skin your blades?

I think I will.
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2019, 02:51:00 AM »
It's coming together all right.
Just for information (I can't be sure if you know about this already) lamps are variable loads in electric circuits.  The resistance of the filament varies as it heats up.  I'm not even sure if Halogen lights are as bad as the incandescent ones.  But heat plays a role and it has interesting effects.  It can make you stop believing in Ohm's law until you consider that effect.

I am able to hand crank 91 watts ( 11.25 Volts x 8.09 Amps )...with 2 x  100 watt H7 halogens.
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2019, 12:50:03 PM »
I added third lamp and cranked 128,3 watts.  ::)
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 12:46:13 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2019, 08:43:51 AM »
I have been watching closely the developement of the Idaho based Tilt Rotor system.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b002/69b9676d4575e6dce217315eade9ef3a08f1.pdf

Does anyone see anything strange in the displayed values there ?

Are they any longer in business ?
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

TechAdmin

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2019, 12:41:02 PM »
After attaching an image, please click on the actual (and rather big) "Insert image" button next to it, so the image itself will show up in recent posts as well and will also show in the middle of the post itself (making things easier too, since you can say I've done this - post image, then this - post another image and so on). Thanks!
Currently trying to find a way to see if I can remove the end of post attachments altogether, didn't think people could miss the button :( It's a pretty new system and we don't have an up-to-date how-to quite yet, but still :P

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2019, 09:20:03 AM »
After attaching an image, please click on the actual (and rather big) "Insert image" button next to it, so the image itself will show up in recent posts as well and will also show in the middle of the post itself (making things easier too, since you can say I've done this - post image, then this - post another image and so on). Thanks!
Currently trying to find a way to see if I can remove the end of post attachments altogether, didn't think people could miss the button :( It's a pretty new system and we don't have an up-to-date how-to quite yet, but still :P

Okay...greetings to Italy...my daughter brought these light cones from breakfast table in Rome recently.

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I will add this blue 55 watt H7 just about now into the rear jar.

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Thus I will have a circuit of 255 watts.

These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

SparWeb

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2019, 04:30:29 PM »
Ciao Topspeed, and all lovers of Italian things.

Your equipment is coming together nicely.  I can't see it so may I ask: have you a way to turn each of the lamps on or off?  It will allow you to vary the electrical load on the turbine.  That can have interesting effects.

As for the other documents and charts you are posting, I'm afraid they are just as bad as the junk you found last month.
The "Idaho tilt rotor" paper is actually a student's undergraduate thesis paper, where nothing was built.  Nothing in that paper has been validated.
The chart you posted is worse because it plots impossible curves with no data to support the claims.  You're not going to get me to click on the sale brochure link to find it.

You have also made your own edits to the image thereby declaring yourself as on the side of "inventing reality".  I have warned you about this in the past.  The words are acknowledged, but the meaning is not sinking in.  Why are you not examining these things yourself critically?

When you build, I will encourage you.  I will also offer suggestions that may improve your success or safety.
When you measure what you built, I will support you.  I will also offer tips to improve the quality of your results.
When you post the imaginary results of others, I will remove them.  In this case I will red-flag your graphic and allow a second moderator to decide.
When you make claims of your own that are obviously false, I will ban you.


DamonHD: previous topspeed post now removed by me.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 04:23:46 AM by DamonHD »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2019, 02:11:34 AM »
Ok notice received...let's keep the speculations out of this.

Yes..there will be switch to CUT-IN....and CUT-OUT via short circuit.

Also the connections to each lamp are very fast to operate for desired out put level.

These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

SparWeb

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2019, 09:20:31 PM »
That's what I like to see.  Thank you!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2019, 09:40:01 AM »
I seem to be slower in the winter time.  :'(

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These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

CraigM

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2019, 03:03:27 PM »
I have assembled a lot of built-up wings for R/C aircraft and always felt this type of construction is a good choice for a constant chord VAWT blade. They can be built to be very strong and stiff. With a fiberglass cloth and resin skin the outside can withstand a lot of abuse as well.

You probably already know this but adding a vertical grain sparweb piece between the top and bottom spars will add a great deal of strength.

Great looking work!
Brain engaged in Absorption Charge Mode... please wait, this may take awhile.

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2019, 05:05:53 AM »
Ok...I will add a spar web. ;)
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2019, 07:58:25 AM »
Well...as this is not a wing but a tower cover...it needs no spar nor web..as the tower itself is one.

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I nearly blew this...as the tape did not attach when the epoxy made everything slippery. But the pop riveting saved the day.

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These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

CraigM

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2019, 10:05:31 AM »
Ahh! Makes sense now, I can see the reason for the square cutout in the ribs. Was wondering why they were there.
Brain engaged in Absorption Charge Mode... please wait, this may take awhile.

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2019, 11:33:12 AM »
Ahh! Makes sense now, I can see the reason for the square cutout in the ribs. Was wondering why they were there.

Yes...this cuts down the tower drag about 95%.



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These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2019, 01:53:42 AM »
There are many VAWT companies in eastern Europe.

Maybe russians will have one soon ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RuOOEULaeo
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

electrondady1

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2019, 08:59:57 AM »
very interesting

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2019, 10:30:30 AM »
very interesting

I wonder if this is the only available adjustable ( pitch controlled ) VAWT in the market ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=47&v=CNHUiJ6Voqk

TechAdmin - fixed weird link :P
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 06:39:53 PM by TechAdmin »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals

topspeed

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Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2019, 01:29:04 AM »
Tower fairing is wood ready.





« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 10:54:49 AM by topspeed »
These wind turbines must for that reason in a deeper sense be of a timeless beauty, so that they do not in three or four decades hence burden a later generation with a heavy task of removing angular skeletons.....

Ulrich Hütter

Aerodynamics is highly educated guessing, worked out to 5 decimals