3d print?!?

[GreenTeam]

Has anyone 3d printed alternator parts yet? I want to amehow use my phone to take pics of my Samsung washer motor to 3d print magnet rotors to pump it axially instead of radially. I am searching online for a stl file for a stator that looks like one from a DVD burner to print and test it as a generator

[SparWeb]

Yes it's been done.  The results were OK but the limitation is that the magnets need to have a magnetic path through the backing material - which rules out using FDM or SLA to make magnet rotors.  As for stators, there's some potential - but the design of the LG washer stator and the wheelmotor stators also require iron.  Once again, not a design that gets much help from 3D printing.

Unless you want to pay up for la$er-$intering...

[Bruce S]

I agree with SparWeb on this one, there's also heat, which can be enough to reach the melting point on some of the lower grade spools.

Bruce S

[MattM]

If you could 3D print wax

[SparWeb]

If you could 3D print wax

To make a part to be copied in a mold (ie. sand casting)?
Yes that can be done.  It's a strange mix of old and new technology, and you have to do without many of the nifty features and capabilities of 3D printing for (instead) the sake of a quick blank to copy.
None of that applicable to what we would want in an alternator.

[GreenTeam]

I 3d printed a little coil jig today. And I was thoroughly impressed with the accuracy of the results. And I pressed the two halves together and when I tried to pull them apart , one broke.
Next experiment is to try and remove a stator from a DVD burner, and use tinkercad to increase it's size by scale. Maybe I can wrap electrical steel around the poles. And hope that keeps it from exploding or something. Stay tuned! Updates coming soon!

[GreenTeam]

I have finally found a way to use 3D printers in generator building!
I have gotten three designs for coil bobbins from rectange - trapazoid to triangle.
And all STL files in my experience can be resized and keep their perspective intact.
Also, can print magnet spool holders, to keep them vertical while winding. Also, can make
spool holders that hold more than one spoon for N-number of wire winding. Which, im very
partial to winding with two strands at once. Also, can print the end caps for smaller designs also.
Will post some pics once I get one of my many on the go projects wrapped up lol.

[GreenTeam]

i found some parts that are part of another project. I dont think that this is meant to be a bobbin, but, it is now!. I can resize the print for length, width and height!. What i see is segmented stator coils. These can be printed in under 10 mins. One took like 9 mins and costed me something like 5 or 6 grams. They are also round so with the right size, they will form a circle when placed side by side.


Also, i designed an end plate but couldnt figure out hole alignment so i have to drill them with a dremel.
The only downside is, takes over 2.5 hours to print. Its four millimetres thick, if i remember correctly.

Stay tuned!
I will figure out more uses for 3d printing for alternator design and construction....

[GreenTeam]

that is one ginormous stator to play with tonight when i get it hot off the printing press .....literally
samsung direct drive motor scaled down to 20mm height and 90 mm across while keeping the coil count

[GreenTeam]

Printing magnet rotors i find terribly conveniant. in no way are they a good part for long term use. But, its fast and great to learn theory with. they are prone to warping.

Also, i am going to use a 3d printed axial flux stator as a mold with 3d printed bobbins/coil formers. i foresee winding and painting resin onto and into the coils and building a super flat stator. with minimal epoxy. I need to do a test batch but i suspect that this method will build me mathematically perfect stators. The 3d print can be modified to diameter and thickness. What i show here is 7mm thick. with 0.33 mm it holds 170 turms per coil easily. using 0.6 mm it holds 60-70 turns. the idea is to mount bobbins on winder, create coils and push into mold. pull bobbin out and leave coild and than paint with epoxy. only the coils amd as little as possible. thoughts?

magnet rotors are super easy to make like this. only hard part is getting polarity right.

[Ontheronix]

I don't know why a bit of plastics between the magnet and the iron would be of a great influence. We have been 3D-printing windturbines for years now and the results are good. Not commercial so I think I can share it: www.fromwastetowind.com.
Greenteam; no need to reinvent the wheel, you can use our files to build or adapt!

[GreenTeam]

ill take a look. But, rhe idea is that epoxy resin will not stick to smooth plastic. The stator will contain no plastics at the final product. And whos gonna be able to print a 2 meter blade. and wait 12 daya? 3d printing makes alot of noise and heat  and how many kg of filament?

[Ontheronix]

12 days is not that long if you consider the manual labour needed to make the windturbine the conventional way.
We are also making resin-less windturbines: check out https://hackaday.io/project/174283/
For a 2m ferrite windturbine you need 7kg PLA filament (see website). With neo could be lower to 66%. At the moment we are looking into composite (carbon filled) filaments so the weight can further decrease. The incoherency in the datasheets of filaments is a pain in the ass though.

[JW]

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=138508.0

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=139068.0

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=145591.0

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=138468.0

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=143874.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOK3rqVgN2I

[Adriaan Kragten]

The VIRYA-1 generator is described in my public report KD 679. The rotor and generator drawings are given on drawing 1604-01 and 1604-02 which you find at the end of this report. It is specified that the cores item 04 should be made from massive Delrin bar. However, the man who has made the prototype of the generator has made these cores on a 3-D printer. This gave no problems during the tests and the maximum temperature at the maximum rotational speed which happens in the windmill wasn't very high. So making these kind of parts on a 3-D printer is possible. The generator has been measured for a 12 V battery load and the measurements are given in chapter 9 of KD 679.

[GreenTeam]

The VIRYA-1 generator is described in my public report KD 679. The rotor and generator drawings are given on drawing 1604-01 and 1604-02 which you find at the end of this report. It is specified that the cores item 04 should be made from massive Delrin bar. However, the man who has made the prototype of the generator has made these cores on a 3-D printer. This gave no problems during the tests and the maximum temperature at the maximum rotational speed which happens in the windmill wasn't very high. So making these kind of parts on a 3-D printer is possible. The generator has been measured for a 12 V battery load and the measurements are given in chapter 9 of KD 679.

What is a Delrin bar?

[SparWeb]

Delrin is also known as Acetal.  White, hard plastic that resembles Teflon, but much easier to work with, machine, cut, etc.  Not very sticky either so if Teflon is too slippery Acetal is perfect.  Great stuff.

[Mary B]

Delrin is used in a LOT of low speed bearing applications...

[GreenTeam]

Oh okay, thank you
BTW, I 3d printed a bearing
Called Print in Place.
It works, every part is seperate, and well, it works!
And, I see alot of potential for this. Especially, if I can save up for the Creality Cr-10 Pro Dual extruder model.
And upgrade the nozzles to Titanuim Carbide. Which I just upgraded my Ender 3s to a carbide titanium nozzle.
Now, I can 3d print metal, wood, carbon fibre, copper, Iron, Aluminum  and 316L steel.
I can now literally, 3d print an Iron or Steel stator, and have the second nozzle, extrude carbon fiber for insulation
And 3d print coipper coils!!!
THis is a very very disruptive technology.
I just may make everything obselete. Nasa is already doing it, so , there you go.
Give it time

[SparWeb]

Oh.  You can't get Delrin for 3D printers.  Yet.
Should've clarified that.

[Adriaan Kragten]

The original core should be made from Delrin or a similar material. It must be rather stiff because the core flanges are thin. I don't know which material has been used for the 3-D printed part but it was stiff enough.

[GreenTeam]

Oh.  You can't get Delrin for 3D printers.  Yet.
Should've clarified that.

Thats allright lol!
Im considering doing  such as 3d printing a stator out of Iron PLA and print in place with copper PLA the coils.
And swap out my filaments and start printing a case out of Nylon or Carbon fibers. There is even a tech for this
and it is printing magnets! its called 3d printed SMC I think.
As for the stators, apparently, the iron PLA is magnetic, but not as much as standard metals.
But, considering, that if you need/want a motor or gen set done like ysterday, and can tolerate a sizing differance to make up
for the loss or performance, than basicallly, its gonna cost you like something 75 dollars CAD I think for three spools of
engineering grade filaments that can do this.

[kitestrings]

I suppose you could also print the stator in similar fashion to what you have, then stiffen it with a stiffer, stronger sheet material.  Right now I'm a fan of G10/FR4.  So what if you sandwiched the printed mold between a material like that?  I don't think the strength would be the limiting factor; more likely the temperature tolerances.

We used Delrin in small quantities on our turbine (spacers, bushings).  I agree, nice stuff.  We also used Ultem, which is pretty inexpensive, workable, easily machined, good insulator...

[GreenTeam]

Alot of pla filaments " glassify" around 60 C and turn into goop around 200
But, some "metal fill PLA" have upwards of 80 percent metal dust which liquify somewhats and "print"
Now, they are normally sent for further refinement such as baking the plastics out. But, I suspect that
they can be used as is. Unless your machine gets upwards of 200 degrees. And if it does, you already have failed
magnets and coils that are burnt. So yes, you can use 3d printed parts in a permanent magnet machine.
Although, I have only found one design so far that looks promising. But, like I want, I would like to try and do a metal stator
all 3d printed. And the copper coils can also be 3d printed also. I geuss it would be somewhat similiar to film coils. or PCB stator coils.
The big road block with that would be the creation of the 3d print lol in autocad.
I believe that I can 3d print a stator either using 316l stainless steel lamination sheets and have carbon fiber sheets in between for the insul
Or actual Iron PLA. Although, your gonna be restricted by print bed size. Like mine is 235x235x250mm size. And, would need to install a second extruder and nozzle.
Of which, I already upgraded mine to tungsten carbide. The only thing harder is diamond, no I cant print diamond rings lol. YET.

[Bruce S]

Seeing how far 3D printing has come. It would be interesting to the coils and stator "printed"
With the temps getting so high , the magnets for a "test" run could be ceramic(ferrite) types. They can withstand pretty high temps (200+C for the cheap-os I have and upwards for the bigger ones.
The Dan(s) and several others used to build with Ferrite mags before Neo's dropped in price and became available. Not too long ago Chris_O built a massive unit using them

Perhaps they would be a good test?

Cheers
Bruce S 

[GreenTeam]

Some more research has brought me to the conclusion that at the moment 3d printed coils are not going anywhere soon. I have seen some alum printed ones but they are drone motors.
But, right now , I am working on a printed jig for creating double layer stator that leaves all the coil legs in the same plane. Basically by slightly bending the ends either up or down, they can be over lapped and really increase the power densification. Although I have not figured out how to mount said stator once they have been brushed with epoxy. My goal is a super thin stator around 4 mm thick.
As you see one coil has two slots in the middle. Each slot will have another coil in each one. The coils underneath will have the ends bent down slightly. The coils on top will have the coils bent up slightly. And that is a concentrated fractional pitch double layer overlapped coreless axial flux stator winding some of the big books say. But as you see, the test bobbin I used is a tad bit to short. The width is dead on. The thickness is dead on. And my printer just finished. Hopefully by weekend I should have 24 coils in this , which would normally be just 9. And takes alot less space also. I think I may be coming close to the end of the road, I won't be able to squeeze more out unless I can have a mini lathe. Updates coming soon!

[Adriaan Kragten]

I like this idea of a 2-layers winding because it certainly gives a higher copper density. So the stator can be made thinner for the same amount of copper and this means that the air gap is smaller resulting in a stronger flux density. Generally a 2-layers winding is thought to be too complicated for an axial flux generator if you have only coils cast in epoxy or polyester. But if you have a printed plastic frame, all wires are guided in the grooves and positioning of the coils is much more accurate.

A problem with a 2-layers winding is that you get crossing coil heads making the stator thicker at that crossings. But if the crossings are outside the region of the magnets, it may give no problems. If you have a printed frame it might also be possible to make the grooves for the first layer at the front side of the frame and the grooves for the second layer at the back side of the frame. In this case there can be a thin layer of plastic in between the coil heads of the first and the second layer. This prevents possible short-circuit in between the layers, even if the coil heads are flattened to reduce the thickness. Mounting of the coils from two sides makes the whole construction symmetric and probably less sensible for warp.

You must prevent that the coils come out of the grooves. It might be possible to make small tapered slots at the top of the grooves in which a closing strip with tapered sides can be shifted. Filling the grooves with epoxy seems difficult as the wires will come out of the grooves as long as the epoxy isn't hardened. Making these kind of grooves will be difficult if the grooves are cut but no problem for 3D-printing. 

[SparWeb]

Are you intending to make a matching stator ring, like this one, that is attached to this one face-to-face?

How about making grooves in the stator fingers on one side, and protrusions on the stator fingers on the other side.  SNAP!  They go together.
Once you commit to the concept of snap-fit, you can do a LOT of other things, like removable snap-tabs.  Allowing you to assemble a rigid stator with coils, then disassemble and re-arrange the coils after a test run, to measure a different combination.

[Adriaan Kragten]

In the photo I see that you have tapered grooves separated by spokes with a constant width. But the thickness of a wire bundle is the same everywhere so it seems more logic to me to give the grooves a constant width and to taper the spokes.

[GreenTeam]

Well, my intention was just to let the coils chill in the grooves and stay there while being soldered. And after all connections have been made, than cut a strip out of a old t-shirt and use watered down gorilla glue gel to paste a thin strip of old t-shirt onto said coils to "solidify" them. This way hopefully , "hopefully" I can then gently lift one side of coils and gently slide the ring out and the coils will " hopefully " retain their position until I flood with epoxy. My confidence level to do this is somewhat in the sub basement level so that project is on the backburners. I've gone into paralysis through over analysis again over it. And since the wire I'm using to construct it was donated to me from finding an abandoned dead vacuum cleaner in my building hallways, I can afford to make a couple of extra test stators. Although, the roadblock I think I will run into is being able to wind coils that will have enough turns per coil to make this actually worth while. I'm afraid that I may just wind up with the same amount of turns and voltage as my 6 coil design that produced 10v. And , I am also worried that I am kind of unsure of how to exactly wire up a 24 coil double layer stator. Would the resistance by sky high and it just turns into a novel heater?;or would it need to turn super duper fast? Or would it make enough power to travel through time and melt down ? I don't know!!

[GreenTeam]

Okay, after my latest magnet rotor failure, not sure if it was a failure or me being impatient and not letting the gorilla glue dry over night.
But, I broke down and ordered half a Kilo of Steel Filled Filament, and half a Kilo of magnetic iron filled pla filament,
And, I am thinking of reprinting my magnet rotor, by laying down a few layers of steel , than withdraw the steel filament, than load the iron filament,
and lay down a few more layers with iron, than withdraw the iron and load carbon fiber filament to finish or use regular PLA on top of the two metal
printed layers. And, I am also thinking of possibly maybe another way to secure magnets along with glue. Maybe in a channel, and have the magnets inserted.
There are ways to "anneal" 3d printed parts to make them engineering grade strong. Prottype printing techniques.

I will succeed, I will develope the very first fully printed gennie lol

[MagnetJuice]

Here is a key to understanding what GreenTeam is saying.

80% of the time when he says 'than' it means 'then' to most of the rest of the English speaking world. A lot of Canadians do that. I know firsthand; my Canadian born wife does the same thing. I was not born in Canada so it was hard for me to understand what she was saying when we first met. 

Ed

[JW]

The main thing I think of with these 3D print applications is the CAD software sweeps etc.

I use both SW 2000 and SW 2016...

I really like SW 2000 but it requires an NT platform so I went out and bought a XP machine for like $180 and had a windows 2000 pro CD. I loaded the thing and got the XP computer to run Win 2000.

Bata bata bing I can now run SW 2000 this thing has 4gig RAM 80gig HD. I just bought a <used> graphics card for $10 with shipping.

Almost thought I couldnt get away with it but it runs fine.




This should probably be in the fabrication section. Welders lathes etc