Author Topic: 3d print?!?  (Read 11339 times)

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JW

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2021, 10:25:46 AM »
 :D :D :D

Mary B

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2021, 10:47:50 AM »
Quote
What would the advantage be of having a sinusoidal wave pattern on the electrical wave forms? Its not like it is directly powering up a Power 9 quad server with SAS RAID 10 or sumthin...

When working in strictly AC systems (example: AC power supply -> AC motor -> mechanical load) then the clean AC means you get the best power transmission through the system.

Quote
Would the battery bank really care what the wave form is that much?
Keep in mind, if you harmonics get really bad you have a 500+ watt RF generator sitting on top of a tall tower transmitting all over the area... the FCC can come down on you to fix it! If you can hear your system on AM radio you might need to add some filtering to tamp down harmonics! I fight this problem all the time, guy at the end of the road put in some grow lights, cheap LED ones from China, I could pick them up on 14mhz 5 miles down the road in my SUV and they totally wiped out reception at home with my super sensitive receive on 144mhz! The switching supplies in them had NO filtering. FCC tracked it to his barn and said fix it or $10,000 fine starts and if not paid it doubles. He didn't want to land in court due to the slightly illegal nature of what he was growing... he replaced the lights then moved his grow operation to a different location since the feds knew about this one. Not that the FCC reports to the FBI/DEA but he was paranoid... I had no issue with it, he was growing to treat his glaucoma...

Quote
No, it doesn't.  It can't get a clean AC in the first place because the AC circuit doing the work (wind turbine) is having its load switched on and off every cycle (rectifiers).  The battery clamps the voltage to a certain value, which chops the top of the sine wave.  It's a total mess.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

There's nothing sinusoidal about that one.

It can get worse:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

This one has the clipping, and it also has harmonics in the AC (3rd and 6th and probably more) all as a result of the rectifiers switching off-on-off-on every cycle and resonance in the AC circuit.  At 98 RPM the resonance was damped out but at 176 RPM the resonant frequencies are banging around more strongly.

Quote
And, also, when the power comes out of the battery, would it not be repped into the nicer waveforms?

Yes, that's generated by your inverter, which can and should be independent of the wind turbine's AC.

(I split the quote blocks apart so that the comment from Mary shows up better.  Sparweb)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 01:11:38 AM by SparWeb »

JW

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2021, 11:33:03 AM »
Mary is ok if I fix the quotes in your post, so it will be easier for others to see your point 

Mary B

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2021, 12:10:54 PM »
Mary is ok if I fix the quotes in your post, so it will be easier for others to see your point

Fix away! Today is chase down power line noise day... never ends with radio interference!

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2021, 05:29:55 PM »
GreenTeam, I am almost done with the bike generator.

Here are some pictures:

13999-0
14000-1
14001-2

Next, I need to wind the coils. After I wind the coils, then I can find out the dimensions of the stator form and mail everything to you so you can 3D print the stator.

Ed
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kitestrings

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2021, 06:57:22 PM »
That looks good.  Is that a saw blade?  I recognize the arbor configuration.

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2021, 07:51:00 PM »
Yes, those are 7.25 inch saw blades. I glued 2 blades together and used 2 blades per each rotor.

I grounded off the teeth. In retrospect, it could be easier to sandwich the blades between thin hardboard or plywood, and then cover the teeth with silicone rubber or hot glue. Maybe I will do that when I build another one.

Ed
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SparWeb

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2021, 07:56:32 PM »
Jeez that looks really nice, Ed.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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electrondady1

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2021, 08:34:28 AM »
nice build

GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2021, 01:33:39 PM »
Wow that is some nice work! Is that 3d printed peices?

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2021, 12:52:04 AM »
Wow that is some nice work! Is that 3d printed peices?


No, they are not 3D printed. Those are small wheels made out of hard rubber and/or plastic. The larger gray wheel, I used a power brush to put small groves on it. That will help with traction against the bicycle wheel. The white stuff on the magnet rotor is a sheet of polyethylene.

Those wheels I bought for less than 1$ from a surplus store. Some of those wheels you can buy with wheel bearings. The ones that I used didn't come with bearings. I used a hole saw tool to drill a 1.375 inch hole in the center for the bearings. Bearings of that size are very cheap.

The main thing that I want to show is that it is easy and simple to build a small alternator to make a little electricity.

It is also a good way to get exercise in the winter by bringing the bicycle indoors and using the watts to light LED bulbs in the evening. If a few millions of us do that, it will reduce the amount of fossil fuel that has to burn to produce that electricity.

Ed
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MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2021, 07:06:28 PM »
I wound this coil for the 3D printed stator, but it is a bit too big.

14024-0

This coil has 95 turns and 2 strands of 22 Ga. (.64 mm) which is the equivalent of 19 Ga. It is .312 inches thick (8 mm).
That is the smallest coil that I can wind using my coil winder. To wind a smaller coil I will have to modify some of the components of the coil winder.

For the next coil, I am going to use 3 strands of 25 Ga. (.45 mm). That will be the equivalent of 20 Ga. I am hoping that with the thinner wire, the coil will be smaller and it will fit in the allocated space. I still want to keep the coil at 95 turns.

Ed
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GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #78 on: April 23, 2021, 01:26:38 AM »
Which Coil winder do you have?
I have a Nz-01 I think its called. Its a very very basic machine, a manual one.
With a threaded rod that a bobbin is to be slid onto and a locking nut to hold the bobbin.

My only complaints with this winding machine is, the threaded rod that is used to wind onto, is so thick.
Sometimes, I want to wind teensy coils. Is there anyway that I could possibly modify my manual winder to do this?
Some pictures of winders I have seen, have what looks like drill chucks on them to use a small spindle.
How would I go about to do that to a nz-01 winder?

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2021, 02:38:28 AM »
My coil winder is homemade, my own design. Normally, I wind bigger coils. The spindle in my winder is about 10mm. I am going modify it to accept a 6mm spindle. That way I can wind smaller coils.

If the thread on your spindle is a 'normal' thread, you should be able to get a reducer to accept a thinner rod.
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GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2021, 06:10:50 PM »
Quote
I had to change the design to make it 12 Magnets and 9 coils because the magnets that I have are smaller, but they are strong and have a mounting hole.

One minor advantage of a 12-pole alt is that if you can easily measure the frequency of the AC sinewave output, you can easily convert to rpm.  I believe frequency (Hz) = pn/2 (where p = # of poles, n = rps).  So, if you measure 20 Hz, your turbine is doing 200 rpm.

How would one do this with a 8 coil 8 pole alt?

MattM

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2021, 07:54:07 PM »
Likely a typo.  Probably means 9 coils.

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #82 on: May 04, 2021, 01:36:35 AM »
I wound this coil today. This one has 97 turns of 25 Ga. (.45 mm) wire, 3 in hand.

14056-0

It fits nice. I will have to modify the shape of the stator form to make the coils fit.

Tomorrow I am going to wind all 9 coils. I will encapsulate the coils in high temperature epoxy.

Ed
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GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #83 on: May 04, 2021, 10:54:22 AM »
What did you use for a bobbin? And why 3 strands of .45mm? Why not just use one or two wires and alot more turns?
Is it a space constraint?

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #84 on: May 05, 2021, 03:29:19 AM »
I managed to wind 3 coils today, the rest has to wait a day or two. Springtime gets quite busy around here.
14069-0
I like how they turned out. They are very flat and solid. They feel like a solid piece of copper.

That is one advantage of using multiple conductors. Another advantage is that you can pack a little more copper in the same space.

What did you use for a bobbin?

I don't use bobbins, I use pins to wrap the wire around. I find it easier to wind 3 coils at a time by using pins.

14070-114071-2

Those polyethylene discs are a bit too big for those coils, but I already had them cut so I used them.

For spacers I use different things as in this picture. A combination of nuts and washers works well to get the right thickness.
14072-3
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GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #85 on: May 05, 2021, 06:08:46 PM »
WOW, now those are some pretty spiffy coils!  :o
How did you manage to keep them like this with out taping them?
Are you dippling them into resin while winding?  Coz thats what I am going to try and do.
Is that resin or glue?
And did you 3d print those discs and than put bolts through them?
How do you keep track of the number of turns on the coils?

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #86 on: May 06, 2021, 02:43:58 AM »
WOW, now those are some pretty spiffy coils!  :o
How did you manage to keep them like this with out taping them?
Are you dippling them into resin while winding?  Coz thats what I am going to try and do.
Is that resin or glue?
And did you 3d print those discs and than put bolts through them?
How do you keep track of the number of turns on the coils?


Yes, I applied a coat of high temperature epoxy after every layer.

The round white discs I cut from an old cutting board.

Before I start winding the coils, I spray the discs and pins with silicone spray, because epoxy will stick even to that kind of plastic.

I have a mechanical, resettable counter on my coil winder, it frees my mind so I can concentrate on others things.

Ed
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electrondady1

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #87 on: May 06, 2021, 09:21:52 AM »
your coil jigs are very much like my own though  i use acrylic plastic.  i use a solid plastic centre section to define the coil shape . where you are using those steel pins. nice idea. i also shape the outside walls of the jig to conform to the outside size and shape of the coils.



MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2021, 08:16:38 PM »
I wound 9 new coils. The other 3 that I did before, I used too much epoxy. The epoxy ran out of the form and glued the ends of the wires together. When I separated them, some of the enameled coating came off. They are still usable so I will save them for a future small alternator.

This time I used just the right amount of epoxy. I am pleased how they turned out.

For these ones I cut the forms out of polycarbonate because it tolerates a higher temperature than polyethylene.

The normal full curing time for this type of epoxy is 4 days. I bake the coils for an hour while they are still on the forms to cure them faster.

14100-014101-1

Now I need to work on the dimensions for the printable 3D form.

Ed
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electrondady1

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2021, 07:22:47 AM »
sweet

SparWeb

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #90 on: May 16, 2021, 11:44:14 PM »
Those look great.
Three wires in hand... what gauge?
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2021, 02:22:25 AM »
Those look great.
Three wires in hand... what gauge?

Those coils are wound with 3 strands of 25 Ga. (.45 mm) wire. There are 101 turns per coil.

I connected 3 in series (1 phase) and using my milliohm meter I get a reading of .98 ohms.

I adjusted my coil winder for a tight wound and applied a light coat of high temperature epoxy after every 2 layers. They feel like a solid piece of copper.

Ed
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MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #92 on: May 20, 2021, 01:20:25 AM »
GreenTeam, here is an image of how the coils will fit in the form.



Tomorrow I will post an image with the exact dimensions and another image of the blank stator to scale, ready to print.

Ed
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MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #93 on: May 26, 2021, 07:20:45 PM »
GreenTeam, here are the dimensions for the stator form.

14126-0

The following image is to scale, ready to print.

14127-1
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 08:58:52 PM by MagnetJuice »
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kitestrings

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2021, 04:14:26 PM »
Looking good.  Have you spun this up with your proposed magnets, or perhaps with a pair of coils? I'm just curious what the speed, voltage is that you are seeing/expecting.  ~ks

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2021, 05:34:05 PM »
You are curious KS? Be careful, they say that curiosity killed the cat  :D

I am curious too, but I haven't spun it with any coils. I already have it packed and ready to send it to GreenTeam. I hope that he can test it and tell us what it does.

My calculations are that when it is turned with a 26 inch bike tire, pedaling at 40 RPM will turn the generator at 400 RPM. At that speed, it should produce about 14 volts DC.

The coils resistance is about .98 ohms per phase, so it should be able to pump 6 amps or more into a 12 volt battery.

I am planning to build one of these bike generators for myself soon to test a different way to build the stator. Our curiosity will be satisfied then.  ;)

Ed
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GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2021, 07:20:25 AM »
The coils are a work of art! Seriously wound right. A d he's right, they do feel like solid copper.

And yes, I .cannot wait to spin this up . But as life had it , my x-axis snapped the afternoon it arrived :(. But not to worry , I found out the belt is called a GT2 timing belt . And they are so low prices that I may be able to replace it for as low as 10 dollars or less. All the coils came very tightly wound, and soldered already.the only thing I need to do is take a jpg pic of the stator pic and I think mattercontrol 2 since it has a lithophane feature built in.

But, until I get the gt2 belt and print it off, than ill be ready to mix up a tablespoon of epoxy resin to individually pot the coils in the mold. Thank you so much for sending me this impressive design of yours!

MagnetJuice

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2021, 07:10:29 PM »
I'm glad you like the coils and the rest of the parts.

I made a couple of mock up coils to demonstrate a way to attach them to the stator form.

14156-014157-1

I used pieces of silicone rubber tubing to lock them in place. The silicone tolerates very high temperature. Any kind of silicone will do, you can get it from oven mittens, exercise bands or baking mats.

14158-214159-3

Cover the bottom of the form with tape, then place the stator form with the coils on a flat and level surface and then slowly pour in the epoxy. I use MG Chemicals 832C high temperature epoxy. Vinyl ester also tolerates high temperatures and is cheaper but it is hard to find in small quantities. They usually sell it by the gallon.

14160-4

After I filled the gap, I brushed a thin coat of epoxy on the entire coil, both sides.

14161-514162-6

I don't have a 3D printer and I have no idea how much temperature the filament material can take.

On the form that I posted above, I allowed a gap of about 3 mm between the coils and stator form. I hope that that is enough separation to keep the form from getting too hot and warping or melting.

Once you get the timing belt, the fun will begin.

Any questions, just ask.

Ed
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GreenTeam

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Re: 3d print?!?
« Reply #98 on: June 12, 2021, 03:54:31 AM »
I'm glad you like the coils and the rest of the parts.

I made a couple of mock up coils to demonstrate a way to attach them to the stator form.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

I used pieces of silicone rubber tubing to lock them in place. The silicone tolerates very high temperature. Any kind of silicone will do, you can get it from oven mittens, exercise bands or baking mats.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Cover the bottom of the form with tape, then place the stator form with the coils on a flat and level surface and then slowly pour in the epoxy. I use MG Chemicals 832C high temperature epoxy. Vinyl ester also tolerates high temperatures and is cheaper but it is hard to find in small quantities. They usually sell it by the gallon.

(Attachment Link)

After I filled the gap, I brushed a thin coat of epoxy on the entire coil, both sides.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

I don't have a 3D printer and I have no idea how much temperature the filament material can take.

On the form that I posted above, I allowed a gap of about 3 mm between the coils and stator form. I hope that that is enough separation to keep the form from getting too hot and warping or melting.

Once you get the timing belt, the fun will begin.

Any questions, just ask.

Ed

Now this technique I really dig! That was the very first issue of mine as I analyzed a way to insert the coils into stator mold after printing it.
How to keep them centered for potting them in epoxy. Problem solved, thank you!

And as for materials, with an FDM printer, you can print tool quality parts. FDM means Fused Deposition Modelling. ( heating material and depositing on the model )
And, the cheapest sub 200 USD printer, I bought it because it totally pwns the Dremal, Ultimaker or any other multi thousand dollar printer out there. I know it sounds
like fish oil, but its a fact. The quality that is gotten from a well turned Ender 3, the plain version is astounding. You would be very limited to materials with a stock ender 3 out of the box.
But, I have added a glass bed, later on will be a sensor that auto levels down to the micron levels.
I swapped out all my brass nozzles for Carbide Tungsten, I managed to acquire a set of 5 right from Creality for 20 dollars! ranging from 0.2mm all the way to 0.6mm. And one reaaal bad
70 dollar carbide tungsten 0.4mm which is the Rolls Royce of printer nozzles. This has opened up very abrasive materials. Next, would be what's called a ALL METAL HOT END.
The stock hot end for creality ender 3 limits to you about a 230-250 Celsius ceiling. And even than, the bowden tube, which is what guides the material into the hot end and nozzle. That would start to smell when it gets really warm. Which means its breaking down, It will fail quickly. So that can be replaced, with the hot end, which than opens up a much higher temperature range.

Now, this is where FDM tech starts to really show its disruptive nature. You can now print, Nylon mixed with Carbon Fiber, Nylon with Carbon Fiber Nano tubes. or straight Carbon Fiber.,
And, you can also print Kevlar. Or any of the above mentioned materials mixed in many other materials. You can also even print materials that have nano diamond now.
Some of these materials are extremely heat resistant, stiff, impact resistant. And can make tool quality parts. As a matter of fact, The material called NylonX is being referred to as
Black Aluminum due to the strength of the stuff.

I now know for a fact, that I can fully 3d print a fully core less, fully yoke less permanent magnet generator. The only parts of it that wont be printed will be the coils, the expoxy, magnets and the bearings. Maybe even the bearings can be possible be printed by using thrust style bearings. Thrust needle bearings. The shaft/axle can also be 3d printed to spec. Now, at this point, no reason why even the tools such as the wrenches can be printed. Maybe if one is good enough with cad, even the bolts can be printed using a 0.2 mm nozzle, or 0.3 m nozzle.

There is even electrically conductive materials, which I would like to research as to how much amperage they can handle. Due to the fact that the Ender 3 can be modded to have a second extruder. I envision 3d printing a stator mold that literally slides into a ring with bus bars pre printed and just have to solder little gaps.  Btw, the end result looks like its really really cool Matte Black. The youtube vid I watched showing this, shown a turbo charger impellor!.

Now, I just got my ender 3 bed belt repped, and retorqued all my belts really tight, and am printing a print in place parallel twin motor cycle engine thats supposed to be able to turn the cranks and cylinder. No assembly required.

For the magnet rotors, the drawback is having to use extra neodymes due to no metal or iron in the back plate. So, every pole requires 90 degree oriented magnets to create a halbach array,.

Of which, to that I have a super serious question that i cannot find the answer from reading oodles and oodles of thesis docs about axial magnetic machines, and the question is this -
     
    Generally, the inductor coil inside hole always is the same size as the outside diameter of the magnet being used in the magnet rotors yes?
      But using a halbach array, the magnet pole is now widened by the magnets at 90 degree orientation.
        Could the coil inside hole now be as wide as the magnet and the two on each side of it?

Wish I had a pic to show my thoughts, some times they are hard to put into words. If any confusion as to what I mean, I can hand draw out what I mean to clarify it,