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New French wood 2 storey Garage, PV & electrics installation.
clockmanFRA:
New French wood 2 storey Garage, PV & electrics installation.
A 3.7kW Photovoltaic PV, and its electrics installation, that will join my other 14kW of PV here that is also collecting the sun light.
These are UpToDate, Dec 2020, LONGI 370w split monocrystalline PV panels, each panel is 1760mm x 1040mm and 35mm thick. Each has a maximum output of 40.5vdc at 9.1amps. I call these Longi panels medium quality, makers like LG and Panasonic etc i call top brand panels.
Firstly, SAFETY, if your not sure then please!, please! ask a competent qualified person.
This electrics installation is for France and complies to the French regulations, which after all these years I actually like. The earth system here is a 1.5m rod bashed into the ground and linked to the distribution fuse boxes with a earth 16mm/2 cable. MCB’s here are 2 pole, so both N & L are protected, in France we do not use a common Neutral bond/bus bar, nor do we bond the Neutral to the Earth.
For this installation on the south side of the new garage slate roof, I have 2off used/second-hand 1700W SMA Grid Tied Inverters, GTI’s. These will feed into the OzInverter created 240vac Mini Grid. Therefore, I have split the 10off PV panels into 2 strings of 5 panels each, and those 5 panels will give a maximum of 202.5vdc at 9.1amps into each GTI.
The 2 GTI inverters will convert the 202.5vdc into 240vac and this will feed back into the OzInverter MINI GRID that is connected to all the 8 buildings here.
If the electricity being created by the PV is not being used around the buildings, then any excess will back feed through the OzInverter and re-charge the batteries. If the batteries are fully charged then the AC voltage will rise slightly by a few volts and shut the SMA GTI inverters down.
Please note, it is very important for the life and longevity of your batteries, that they MUST NOT BE OVERCHARGED.
So setting the GTI shut down voltage is specialised for each GTI, as its location for voltage drop/droop, and its own internal settings do vary. Dc battery voltage Comparator circuits can also be used to operate a relay at the GTI to shut it down. Another method is redirection circuit or specialised battery controllers that sends excess power to Dump Loads or other uses like underfloor heating or swimming pool heater etc.
Costs so far, the 10off Longi PV panels with transport fees, tax etc, $1920 or 1600 euros, 2off SMA 1700 used GTI’s, total $204 or 170 euros.
The 10off LONGI Mono PV panels.
The hardware electric boxes and wire channelling/trunking and 2off GTI inverters gets installed. That white board is plasterboard over a 18mm plywood support back board, it is a wooden garage, and those GTI's inverters are 30kg each!
Bruce S:
--- Quote from: clockmanFRA on December 05, 2020, 02:30:10 PM ---
Please note, it is very important for the life and longevity of your batteries, that they MUST NOT BE OVERCHARGED.
Costs so far, the 10off Longi PV panels with transport fees, tax etc, $1600 or 1600 euros, 2off SMA 1700 used GTI’s, total $170 or 170 euros.
GTI's inverters are 30kg each!
--- End quote ---
ClockmanFRA
This stateman is SO so true. I still have the NiCd battery that I pushed too far . It is toast and kept in my battery area as a stark reminder.
The costs: I'm a bit confused by the $xxx and xxx euros part. Are you saying the cost is the same for USD$ and Euros?
Ouch on the weight! BUT knowing what they're doing kinda makes sense .
Looking forward to seeing the installs.
Cheers
Bruce S
clockmanFRA:
whoops, sorry Bruce.
Dollars and euros are not to far apart, but i should have done a better explanation.
Hmm... seems that today 1 euro equals 1.2 dollars.
Have now corrected.
Scruff:
--- Quote from: clockmanFRA on December 05, 2020, 02:30:10 PM ---This electrics installation is for France and complies to the French regulations, which after all these years I actually like.
--- End quote ---
;D Ever try putting 10A continuous on a schuko?
The only Distro I've seen set fire was a Frenchy.
--- Quote from: clockmanFRA on December 05, 2020, 02:30:10 PM --- nor do we bond the Neutral to the Earth.
--- End quote ---
What!? How do yer RCDs work without that?
--- Quote from: clockmanFRA on December 05, 2020, 02:30:10 PM ---The 2 GTI inverters will convert the 202.5vdc into 240vac and this will feed back into the OzInverter MINI GRID that is connected to all the 8 buildings here.
--- End quote ---
That's pretty borderline. Mine is much more efficient up around 360V
A. Bodger says there's a way to open up their input acceptance scope.
--- Quote from: clockmanFRA on December 05, 2020, 02:30:10 PM ---If the batteries are fully charged then the AC voltage will rise slightly by a few volts and shut the SMA GTI inverters down.
--- End quote ---
Haha typical me. D'oh I must start doing that.
--- Quote from: clockmanFRA on December 05, 2020, 02:30:10 PM ---Costs so far, the 10off Longi PV panels with transport fees, tax etc, $1920 or 1600 euros,
--- End quote ---
That sounds high. I can get those same panels shipped to me 10 for €1180
clockmanFRA:
Scruff, ......
The latest French regs is what i talk about, and i always use the French Legrand products, especially for wall sockets and the 3 pin plugs. Those old cheap Schuko plugs are still available at the supermarket etc, sadly made in the East with poor QC. But me, i stick to fitting the best available, as one day my lads will take over here.
From the Australian side, ....... "The RCD continuously monitors the Live (Active) and Return (Neutral) wires to see they are in balance, that is, inflow = outflow. Since the Earth is not part of this sensing, technically the RCD can protect without an Earth.
If a person contacts the Active (A) wire and a dangerous current flows thru that person to ground, the RCD senses an imbalance between A and N and trips out.
However, it is still vital to have a good Earth bonding system in the installation to give added protection should exterior metal or conductive parts of the system become live, say because of a loose wire. This protects against fire from a dead short as well." Note.... the French regs have different rated ma RCD for differing circuits in a house.
These are 2 off the SMA 1700w GTI's and are the old toroid type, love em. Max they will handle is 400vdc, the input MPPT range is between 130vdc to 320vdc. What i have found with AC coupling is that small and many GTI's are best, as long as the dc input is within MPPT range, having larger, GTI's over 2500w, puts constant triggering on the OzInverter created Mini Grid.
Yes i do go inside the GTI's and reset all parameters once everything is installed as the distance for this particular install is nearly 500 meters and even using 16mm/2 cables on the 240vac, there is sag to be taken into account on the AC 240v shut down regime.
With AC coupling and the batteries are full, and when i say batteries i mean anything over 1000ah at 48v, the batteries will push back slightly through the OzInverter on the AC 240 voltage, here i set, depends on distance from the OzInverter, first GTI to shut down at 245v, then the others are sequential, 246v, 247v, 247.5v, 248, and 248.5v.. The SMA's are tight on there parameter settings so nice to work with.
Other GTI manufacturers folk use battery voltage sense cables, and voltage comparators at each GTI these comparator circuits are readily available and have hysteresis times as well so the GTI is not constantly cycling on and off. Programming these comparator circuits is a bit tricky.
I also have 3 wind turbines that are clamped direct to my 1300ah 48v battery, so therefore i have 4 Tristar controllers that diversion load 4off 2kW air heaters up at the house. These also control the AC coupling by dumping excess if a large load is being drawn on the Mini Grid and switches on GTI's that are not necessarily needed at that moment.
Certainly been fun getting ones head around AC coupling, without all the fancy complicated and expensive commercial add on's.
Those Longi 370w PV panels are quoted at retail price, ie what an ordinary person would be charged. The problem for me is that France is a bit of desert regards getting good/reasonable quality PV at a fair price as the French PV industry relies on registered business only and YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOUR BUISNESS SIRET NUMBER and minimum order quantity. And France really do have some rubbish panels on their market for retail sales,' fleebay' and 'Boin Coin' etc. Longi 370w Retail Cost is £97 each but then £140 for a pallet transport and 20% tax on top.
Scruff i always think of you as a formula one electrical man, while i plod along in my trusty old simple car.
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