Making large PLANTE lead acid Batteries.

[Bruce S]

It's not until I took a look at the measuring tape that I realized just how big these are!

Nice layout too, looks easy enough to do

Cheers
Bruce S

[clockmanFRA]

Yes, they are a good size Bruce.

On average, using the rolling jig and tool, each plate takes about 30 minutes.

However, dont push down to hard or the lead plates get stretched by the roller action.

[JW]

this is advanced stuff

[JW]

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,150445.msg1061563.html#msg1061563

[clockmanFRA]

March 2024.

Case design now confirmed.

Insulators and plate seperators now confirmed.

Battery terminals and plate connections now confirmed.
.....

Please find this simple reply regards what’s going on in a 2v cell at the active lead DIOXIDE level for the IFLA and PLante cells.

This will form, after re-editing etc, part of my ‘How to Make a modern Plante 2v 450ah lead acid battery’ book.
I always try to write and explain and show with picks what’s practically going on. I have concerns that some groups are guessing and starting to spout rubbish about the humble 2v lead acid cell, so hopefully my below comments will straighten a few folks out.

........... Each 2v volt cell has a charge and discharge rate and this depends on several factors.

1. The structure of the matrix grid plates and the ratio between the supporting lead that is a basic PLANTE forming, and the composition of the LEAD DIOXIDE that is already made and pasted into the lead matrix that gives a higher Amp Hour holding capacity from the word go.

2. It is very important to recharge and reform the lead oxide at a suitable rate.   Eg, like electroplating, to quick and the plating does not form and adhere well.   The same with lead dioxide, make it efficient and give good ah output, then its short lived. Make the dioxide paste longer lasting but less preforming ah output, and more stable, then welcome to the IFLA as the lead plate matrix is very, very thick and holds the Oxide paste firmly.
BUT excessive constant charge on a individual 2v cell and the lead oxide that is pasted into the grid matrix will be disrupted, especially where it rests in the lead matrix grid, and then the precious lead oxide paste will shed and drop out.

3. With the IFLA batteries the lead matrix grid plates hold the lead dioxide tight, but the lead dioxide is fragile. The lead holding grid it self will also form the correct dioxide over many (over 40) charge recharges, and slowly integrate with the dioxide pastes. BUT CONSTANTLY GETTING THE CHARGE RATE WRONG AND THE PŔECIOUS LEAD DIOXIDE PASTE WILL START SHEDDING as the bond will be broken.

IN CONCLUSION. Some of you are aware of my R&D experiments and builds on a new modern form of the old pure lead PLANTE lead acid 2v 450ah battery. Forming the pure lead sheet surface into a active lead dioxide mush, but making this surface dioxide mush stable and yet giving good AH output rates, is mind boggling, as the variables that require experimentation and calculation are vast.
Oh yea, and these 13 plate 2v PLANTE cells of mine are all designed around a DIY context and constructed with simple tools.

So bear with me guys as i examine and publish a useful definitive practical guide to the humble 2v lead acid cell.

[MattM]

Sounds pretty interesting.  Are you aiming for trickle charging or do these have a fair rate they can form the oxides?

[clockmanFRA]

2.47 is the charge voltage.

What the amps are for the new from of PLANTE battery 2v cell is not yet exactly defined until the cell is forming stage, then the amperage will slowly need to be advanced until around about 30 to 40 charges and discharges, as the lead dioxide is formed on the surface of each of the 12 cells that are in each 2v battery.

Discharge is also not perfectly defined yet.

So a fair bit of testing to do to correctly form a good lead dioxide that holds well in the surface structure.

[clockmanFRA]

New Modern version concept PLANTE.

The PLANTE method forms the lead surface, microscopic level, into a lead dioxide on each charge /discharge.

Subsequent charge /discharge builds up the lead dioxide. 30 to 40 charge/discharges builds sufficient dioxide for the battery to become sufficiently useful for full time use.

However, doing 0.5mm rolled groves into bare 98% pure lead sheet increases the active area of the created lead dioxide by over 100% surface area improvement.

I have, over the decades experimented building 2v lead acid cells. So gained a fair bit of active hands on experience.

Just having a deep grooved lead sheet plates is not helping us achieve a low cost PLANTE battery, so hence me making a judgment of lead sheet thickness for internal strength and support, plus sufficient depth of rolled grooves to form the lead dioxide and offer a larger surface area of the active cell and importantly these groves will hold the active lead dioxide in place.

Again, its getting the variables all to line up to create a cost effective battery that is simple to make by anybody

Eventually our new PLANTE battery will get better and better amp hours and the lead plates slowly all turn to lead dioxide active mush.
In Theory, and others reckon, at my thickness of plates then a 20 year life is expected. Make the lead plated to thick then the dioxide is slower to form.
Again, its the charge rate that is important as the lead dioxide is formed.

Modern IFLA have thick lead matrix plates into which the manufacturers paste the ready formed lead dioxide.
My new modern version of the PLANTE battery won't give the same amp hour output as a IFLA at first.
But because of me doubling the acting surface area of our lead sheet, then amp hour output will be very good compared to a simple standard PLANTE cell.

Modern IFLA thick lead matrix plates for holding the lead dioxide are normally cast formed, so that is just not possible to make simple lead molds for a DIY battery making

Also manufactures hide where and what is actually in the lead dioxide pastes. As i have said before "its chemists delight", and not easy for a DIY build.
 
Our modern version of the old PLANTE battery dioxide forming and using, should be a big leap forward.

[MattM]

Perhaps you need the equivalent of an expanded steel sheet but in lead?
Or maybe would a steel wool equivalent work better?  Lots of surface area I assume is important, but needs to be decently saturated or permeable by the electrolyte medium.

[tanner0441]

Hi

I have been reading your post and I am impressed with your perseverance. you roll grooves into the plates to increase surface area and give a key for the lead oxides to adhere to, would sand blasting do the same thing? Careful experimenting with pressure and grit size i would imagine give comparable results.

Brian.