VAWT backyard experiements

[brandnewb]

This will be my placeholder for when I am granted to move misplaced post here.

This will be about a most unusual VAWT and what happens during its conception, erection, panic stages, demolition, service/upgrade and hopefully finally vindication.

[brandnewb]

OK here goes nothing!

-- here needs a lot of prior content but we will deal with that later--

Dear Mary. You said there is a reason you oversize your towers? I listened look this

https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=150839.0;attach=15743;image

Now these m24 cable tensioners are not only large but also guaranteed to be fit for purpose. I am not sure if I can name brand names but if I did then everyone would understand that this is what one buys if one needs to know it is good. Never mind the cost.

{1} this crappy carabine hook is not part of the part. I just forgot to remove  it before I took the picture{1}

[brandnewb]

Does this diary mean I am free to spam the reply button at will? because if it is then expect some updates that are not related to any question. Only my mind telling me that I want to throw something out in the world of like minded people.

Most of the times it is just ramblings.

But when I start with wow or WOW then one better pay attention. At least that is how I envision things.

I can respect that I live in my own bubble but then again. I might just surprise all of us, even me

It is also perfectly possible that this all leads no where. I am just not convinced yet that it will.

[brandnewb]

and I can respect that for someone that does not know me it is first see then believe.

challenge accepted

[Bruce S]

brandnewb
Let's not use the word SPAM. That has a connotation of ilk. 
I get SPAM RISK calls to my phone and get SPAM in the email addresses almost everyday.

You are more than welcome to continue to add "updates" here by using the reply.

Bruce S

[brandnewb]

yes sir! understood. I did not mean it in a nasty way. But I agree the sound of the word is not the best.


Back to the story at hand.

While taking a break from rebuilding the Apache I get to spend some time on what JW was correctly warning about. Eddy currents.

Up until this point I have just made assumptions that because the iron powder is not electro conductive any issues with eddy currents will be tiny. More so than with traditional techniques.

I would like to make sure.

Is there any experiment I can run to demonstrate if there are eddy current issues or not?

[brandnewb]

Since resin is bad for thermal conductivity yet good for keeping things in place I thought why not extend on the idea.


Please see this concept


We have a full 1:1 ratio magnet coil disk. the resin cast over the coils is darker because it is filled with iron. The parts adjacent to it are lighter because they are filled with aluminum.

If there are no known laws of physics that makes this idea a dead end then I will go and find out. Any thought are always motivating.

The reasoning is to have a disk that is able to dissipate heat far more than  transitional traditional methods.

[Mary B]

yes sir! understood. I did not mean it in a nasty way. But I agree the sound of the word is not the best.


Back to the story at hand.

While taking a break from rebuilding the Apache I get to spend some time on what JW was correctly warning about. Eddy currents.

Up until this point I have just made assumptions that because the iron powder is not electro conductive any issues with eddy currents will be tiny. More so than with traditional techniques.

I would like to make sure.

Is there any experiment I can run to demonstrate if there are eddy current issues or not?

Cast a 4" disc of iron/resin mix about 1/2 inch thick. Spin it between 2 opposing magnets and measure temps... and check for drag, it should spin freely, any drag oyu are creating heat.

[Bruce S]

yes sir! understood. I did not mean it in a nasty way. But I agree the sound of the word is not the best.

We {the Moderators} knew you would understand, but it needed to be said.

Carry one 

Bruce S

[brandnewb]

@MattM,

I totally forgot that there has been a change to the MK I cups to make them weigh less. I did not weigh the new version but it feels more like 10 kilo. Not much more than that. Probably even less.

So let's see what will happen with this less fat version.

BTW these are prototype cups that I can only (un)install during low wind weather because of their size and still weight it should not be windy else risk taking off like a flag when a gust of wind gets a hold of it mid installation.
Also for testing it should be dry for a few days as this early test cups are made from fiber board that will turn into porridge when in contact with water.

[MattM]

Isn't there a time limit for post edits?  Seems like after a few days it gets locked from edits.

Looks like we posted near simultaneously.  Im looking forward to see it all come together.

[brandnewb]

I can post a photo of an early stage with all 3 cups attached just for $#|+s and giggles but once that is done they are coming down again stat!!

The central column is farrr too flexible with the new weight added. And the cups aren't even on yet.

I forgot which exact type of steel we have for the central column but the dimensions are 48mm diam with a wall thickness of 3mm.

This needs upgrading ;(

I would like to upgrade to aluminum because of the weight benefit. Something more like 100mm diam by 8mm wall.
But this time I would like to wait on it for a while to give the more experienced amongst us to have a say about it.

I'd like to prevent panic stages that could have been prevented by simply asking first before doing

[brandnewb]

@MaryB,

btw I am in the early stages of running  your eddy current test.

The disk came out horrendous, yet still fit for purpose. I need more experience pouring resin

Also I thought that keeping a disk central between 2 opposing fields would be easy. Yet the slightest misalignment results in violent pulls.

Does anyone have ideas how to make this test more practical?

[brandnewb]

Please bear witness to the bird her first flight.



wind speed about 1.5m/s

I will actually connect them to the adjacent arms before I remove them. Just to learn what to expect when doing so.

[brandnewb]

I am sad having to admit that fear made me stake this phoenix to the ground. I will not need to explain why it is blamage when doing so !.

But safety first. Think of the local wild life. i.e. my family

[Bruce S]

Kinda  nice watching it go round & round  .

Kudos

Bruce S

[brandnewb]

If it is ok to have 2 magnets on only 1 side then I can print a magnet holder to put into the bearing rather quick.

Probably easy to extent on the concept and also have 2 magnets on the other side keeping things balanced.

@MaryB,

btw I am in the early stages of running  your eddy current test.

The disk came out horrendous, yet still fit for purpose. I need more experience pouring resin

Also I thought that keeping a disk central between 2 opposing fields would be easy. Yet the slightest misalignment results in violent pulls.

Does anyone have ideas how to make this test more practical?
(Attachment Link)

[brandnewb]

I am not sure yet but it looks as if this drag type device has a TSR of around 1.

I am trying to say that the blades seem to move at the same speed as the wind. roughly speaking

{1} hahah strike that Sometimes it looks as if the blades are moving faster than the wind. to be continued {1}

{2} wow !!! that just made me think perhaps now is a good time to go lift type again. I mean if the blades do not start scaring me then why bother with air wheels {2}
{3} yeah no. random ramblings. let me watch it spin longer before i draw conclusions{3}

[brandnewb]

regarding the self destruct functionality as a fail safe.

Any tips one might have on how to approach this would be great.

I am thinking based on the weight of the final blades to determine a maximum centripetal force they should experience and if things start rotating faster then the connection points fail and the blade will fall off. But because it is attached to the arms it can not go far.

[brandnewb]

I think the Apache is not a good name.

Even though this contraption certainly has destructive capabilities. It has got nothing to do with war what so ever.

My mind lingers on "The Phoenix". The mythical bird that keeps rising from the ashes.

When given half a thought it more closely resembles the process I am in.

[MattM]

The remainder of the C-channels can go on your naked boards for six total.  Otherwise they won't do much to counterbalance.  If you are going to build for the buckets to fall off then at least attach chains or something on them to drop down safely back within its own footprint.  No need to have them launch somewhere.

Pheonix is also named the 'Thunderbird'.  A nice nickname for Thunderbird cars was 'Thunderchicken'.

[brandnewb]

would this setup be good enough to determine eddy current issues or not?



or if I increase the distance between the magnets I might be able to pull off having two of them like so



{1} early tests suggest I am correct. But I need to really make sure so that I am not making a huge blunder and that people can trust the results{1}

{2} would it be ok if I not use resin but rather just hand slam compact the powder? That would increase the likeliness of the powder particles coming close enough to each other to allow for the conductivity of electricity. I am still confident that it will not though. I tried like a year ago with all my might and was not able to demonstrate electro conductivity{2}

{3}A better phrasing would be is that I seemed to have been able to demonstrate the powder not being conductive. That is after all the whole premise I am trying to validate{3}

If it is ok to have 2 magnets on only 1 side then I can print a magnet holder to put into the bearing rather quick.

Probably easy to extent on the concept and also have 2 magnets on the other side keeping things balanced.

@MaryB,

btw I am in the early stages of running  your eddy current test.

The disk came out horrendous, yet still fit for purpose. I need more experience pouring resin

Also I thought that keeping a disk central between 2 opposing fields would be easy. Yet the slightest misalignment results in violent pulls.

Does anyone have ideas how to make this test more practical?
(Attachment Link)

[brandnewb]

Yes sir!. consider it done.

The remainder of the C-channels can go on your naked boards for six total.  Otherwise they won't do much to counterbalance.  If you are going to build for the buckets to fall off then at least attach chains or something on them to drop down safely back within its own footprint.  No need to have them launch somewhere.

Pheonix is also named the 'Thunderbird'.  A nice nickname for Thunderbird cars was 'Thunderchicken'.

{1}
It pains me to see her grounded and without feathers. If this does not fill ones heart with sorrow then I strongly suggest a meeting with a shrink and check for sociopathic tendencies

{1}

[brandnewb]

and also please do not get me wrong my dear readers.

I will get back to the repelling rotor dual stator setup that I so magnificently blundered on early on here.

Just for giggles if nothing else. And of course I will be honest about the results.

[MattM]

I'm thinking your photo got right and left reversed.

The air should follow those air channels from outside to middle from a directional position front-center into the wind.

When the c-channel is perpindicular to the wind air will stagnate in it.

The air should follow those air channels from inside/middle to the outside from a position past perpindicular to the wind.

As close to the center (as you can get) you may consider little flaps of metal, or even wooden ramp, to utilize that first airflow moving towards the middle.  A nice rounded shape or straight bend won't matter, just to get a little extra nudge from airflow near your centerline for easy starts.  It may not help much, but its a simple addition.

[brandnewb]

Pheonix is also named the 'Thunderbird'.  A nice nickname for Thunderbird cars was 'Thunderchicken'.

hahah Matt, Look what you have done now! You do understand that now I keep repeating this epic countdown.
5, 4, 3 ,2 1.  thunderbirds are go!!

It will take some time for it to go away again.

But I am happy to relive it. Good old television.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfIAKj3Gl1E

[Mary B]

would this setup be good enough to determine eddy current issues or not?

(Attachment Link)

or if I increase the distance between the magnets I might be able to pull off having two of them like so

(Attachment Link)

Second pic, more speed will show issues a lot faster

{1} early tests suggest I am correct. But I need to really make sure so that I am not making a huge blunder and that people can trust the results{1}

{2} would it be ok if I not use resin but rather just hand slam compact the powder? That would increase the likeliness of the powder particles coming close enough to each other to allow for the conductivity of electricity. I am still confident that it will not though. I tried like a year ago with all my might and was not able to demonstrate electro conductivity{2}

{3}A better phrasing would be is that I seemed to have been able to demonstrate the powder not being conductive. That is after all the whole premise I am trying to validate{3}

If it is ok to have 2 magnets on only 1 side then I can print a magnet holder to put into the bearing rather quick.

Probably easy to extent on the concept and also have 2 magnets on the other side keeping things balanced.

@MaryB,

btw I am in the early stages of running  your eddy current test.

The disk came out horrendous, yet still fit for purpose. I need more experience pouring resin

Also I thought that keeping a disk central between 2 opposing fields would be easy. Yet the slightest misalignment results in violent pulls.

Does anyone have ideas how to make this test more practical?
(Attachment Link)

[brandnewb]

yes mam! I will try it. should I fail then I will fall back on the more simple test as I have it from an esteemed contributor that that test also should be adequate.

[brandnewb]

I am not sure what you mean Matt but thanks non the less, yet please hold on for a moment. I am installing test feathers aka blades.

The only thing I am worried about is that the frame again is alu. I just hope I can keep vibrations a thing of the past.
I really am not looking forward having to upgrade again to wood. Things will start weighing too much that way and then any solution of moving the bird to the roof one day keeps getting more expensive. And without hope for older roofs should anyone ever want to build something similar.

I'm thinking your photo got right and left reversed.

The air should follow those air channels from outside to middle from a directional position front-center into the wind.

When the c-channel is perpindicular to the wind air will stagnate in it.

The air should follow those air channels from inside/middle to the outside from a position past perpindicular to the wind.

As close to the center (as you can get) you may consider little flaps of metal, or even wooden ramp, to utilize that first airflow moving towards the middle.  A nice rounded shape or straight bend won't matter, just to get a little extra nudge from airflow near your centerline for easy starts.  It may not help much, but its a simple addition.

[brandnewb]

Maybe better not to hold on Matt. I am still in my garage building the majestical feathers (oversized blades).

Can you please visually explain what it is you mean? Because I am almost certain I have followed your earlier drawings to the nanometer But then again I could also just interpret your drawings not how they were intended ;(

{1} the photos I take are not flipped/mirored. They are as I see it. I carefully orient the wind catching surface of the blades to make sure that even though my house is blocking wind from a certain direction then I work around this problem and minimize the degrading effects it has on the turbine{1}

I'm thinking your photo got right and left reversed.

The air should follow those air channels from outside to middle from a directional position front-center into the wind.

When the c-channel is perpindicular to the wind air will stagnate in it.

The air should follow those air channels from inside/middle to the outside from a position past perpindicular to the wind.

As close to the center (as you can get) you may consider little flaps of metal, or even wooden ramp, to utilize that first airflow moving towards the middle.  A nice rounded shape or straight bend won't matter, just to get a little extra nudge from airflow near your centerline for easy starts.  It may not help much, but its a simple addition.

[MattM]

My mistake on the picture.  I could have sworn the weather station flipped sides.  It may be your pictures taken from different angles disoriented my perspective.  I will whip up a picture soon.  Really its simpler than it sounds.

[brandnewb]

no Matt you are not wrong. the weather station did move!!!

There is nothing wrong with your visual capabilities

The weather station will most likely keep moving.

But now the matter is resolved. There is no more need for a drawing for this issue at this stage.

[brandnewb]

Mary did really inspire me when she said "oversize"

I am going to try 4m heigh 1m wide cups.

Just to see things go horribly wrong

Where did I put that kevlar body armour again?