How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration

[JW]

 look I've done bunch of work with EV's and was awarded a Patent   US 8261575 B1

Its for a traction motor for a Low Volt EV. the battery's that exist cant be used, Lead acid, Lithium.

We need to develop a battery that's in the middle.

JW

[Flavio93Zena]

You tell him he posts too much as you post 3 times in a row, you're not making any sense, JW. Sorry

I do agree he occasionally posts multiple times in a row and it's generally frowned upon, however, if it's a legitimate status update after a day or two, he can do so, because other users would NOT get a notification about his last post being edited in the meantime and would miss the update.
Some posts I did merge them myself, as they were genuinely unnecessarily too quick.

[JW]

I posted that many times in a row, so he could see what its like. compare the number of the front page between my posts and his, a total. yes I could have edited my posts but he's not doing that.

I don't care 3 months back everything was fine. Before he started posting. look I've got 10 grand invested in this place over 20 years. As mentioned previously I did this to preserve the data base.

I'm sorry when you have a user name that says I'm an idiot, its not right.

JW

[Flavio93Zena]

Ahhh ok, I see what you mean now for the posts. Still, it's good he's engaging with the forum at least

[brandnewb]

 Im just going to say it once.   "Jonny Cool pants"

hahahh that one I am going to carve into the turbine if You will allow for it So the Phoenix her name is now officially "Jonny Cool pants" (again if you will allow for it that is JW)

Now I am not sure about my posting interval.
I mean the time difference between
Reply #160 on: March 13, 2024, 01:42:39 PM

and in reaction to MattM I posted again on
March 13, 2024, 10:07:58 PM

How is that time difference too short? And I also am making use of the {x}{/x} edits to lessen the noise.

You know what to come meet you half way I would be ok is this thread would be merged with the non logged in VAWT experiments. After all it is the same project.

Just allow me to post publicly the results when all is said and done and then everything is fine in my books.

[Mary B]

 Im just going to say it once.   "Jonny Cool pants"

hahahh that one I am going to carve into the turbine if You will allow for it So the Phoenix her name is now officially "Jonny Cool pants" (again if you will allow for it that is JW)

Now I am not sure about my posting interval.
I mean the time difference between
Reply #160 on: March 13, 2024, 01:42:39 PM

and in reaction to MattM I posted again on
March 13, 2024, 10:07:58 PM

How is that time difference too short? And I also am making use of the {x}{/x} edits to lessen the noise.

You know what to come meet you half way I would be ok is this thread would be merged with the non logged in VAWT experiments. After all it is the same project.

Just allow me to post publicly the results when all is said and done and then everything is fine in my books.

A daily update to you diary would cover it... I often post to a notepad document for the day then update a forum at the end of the day if I am in the middle of a project. Less clutter and disjointed hard to follow posts... allows editing into a seamless story line before copy and pasting to the forum...

[Flavio93Zena]

You know what to come meet you half way I would be ok is this thread would be merged with the non logged in VAWT experiments. After all it is the same project.

Huhhhh I'm not sure we want to do that, all posts would get mixed in chronological order and it would be an absolute mess, I would request all mods/admins to actually refrain from merging them, as undoing that would be *considerably* more complicated.
Like, I understand your point of view and agree with it, but from a forum perspective it's bad

[JW]

 interesting quote-

The Betz limit is the theoretical maximum efficiency for a wind turbine, conjectured by German physicist Albert Betz in 1919. Betz concluded that this value is 59.3%, meaning that at most only 59.3% of the kinetic energy from wind can be used to spin the turbine and generate electricity.

Next comes TSR  (tip  speed rotation)

For a VWAT you need to search for that info relates to that.

At the bottom of the page on the main page there is a google search thingyee. search that for VWAT turbine. There is tonns of info here in our database.

[Flavio93Zena]

Disclaimer:
Google search will only go through public boards and works great.
Internal search (top of the page) includes everything the person starting the search has access to. However, it may (and will) come up with very irrelevant results (OLD), so in case you're looking for something not in a public board you may want to be restricting the date on the internal search.

[JW]

We are hosted in the  US  last I checked the server is in Atlanta GA I cant talk about HLS.
Flavio has done a great job.... For no one has been able to login to our server for months maybe a year.
And swear to god if I hear someone mention a "6 digit security pin" Im gonna hit them in the head thru my land line.
Yesterday I got really really close I will keep trying.
 

[Flavio93Zena]

And swear to god if I hear someone mention a "6 digit security pin" Im gonna hit them in the head thru my land line.

LOL

[brandnewb]

the US is not known for it's privacy advocating legislation. So maybe I should warn the coils to not go there

Anyway. I am zeroing in on results. I could really use some pointers here

can I past images again? not even going to try unless told we can.

[Bruce S]

the US is not known for it's privacy advocating legislation.

This is nonsense!!  AND only your opinion

Bruce S

[brandnewb]

well it is certainly not nonsense but yes I will admit it is of my opinion.

Just look at the differences between the EU and the US in regards of citizen privacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation

But in your defense the rest of the world is, in my opinion, equally behind in protecting us.

Then we have of course the DMA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act
I have a personal strong benefit by this law as a developer of a mobile application.
For years Apple has thrown sand in our eyes and now, at least in the Eu, they can no longer do so.

So yes it is my opinion that these facts support my earlier made statement

[JW]

well it is certainly not nonsense but yes I will admit it is of my opinion.

Just look at the differences between the EU and the US in regards of citizen privacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation

your bringing up politics, we don't don't do that here, its one over policy's here. And you are in violation of that here/now.

I cant recommend another website that will accommodate what you are doing here.

This site is purely tech site.

You may have to find another website to post in.

JW

[Flavio93Zena]

I agree, please keep politics out of here and go back to coil I'm rather looking forward to the end of this thread and some kind of formula/solution discovery.

[brandnewb]

please accept my humble apologies.

I understand and agree with your assessment.

respect

[brandnewb]

I can already tell that running 96 magnets at 3.7 Hz at a 3.75 degree spacing per disk. And both disks spaced at 17mm from each other will never get me to where I need to get using 0.71mm diam wires.

You see I can only get 31 coil legs in that space to have 3 phases non overlapped. yes yes yes I abandoned overlapping phases because it just leaves no space for cores and although unconfirmed I now again think it will hinder the field forming abilities of coils.

So either we increase the rotation speed of the PMA or we decrease the wire thickness.

choices choices.

Now here comes the conundrum.

How can a gravity torque test ever be useful if it depends on the field the electromagnets (coils) produce. And that means they need to be rotated over at service speed. Not at all a gravity torque test can ever provide.

Someone like @joestru please get back in here and make some sense out of this all

[Flavio93Zena]

We don't have actual mentions... *Cough*... Yet. I do hope he sees this

[MattM]

31 coil legs?

[brandnewb]

31 coil legs?

yes. in a stacked (or twisted) serpentine coil configuration coils share legs.
but I still can't post images so here I go again
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/building-the-sickest-%C2%AE-vawt-ever-brilliant-minds-unite-please.31934/post-1044317

it is basically one big 100 winds loop but because it is stacked the central legs will have double the amount of wires. The field in the first and last coil is just as strong as the fields in the central coils even though having only 75% of the wires.

{1}unless I am making a huge blinder again I think this stacked serpentine is far superior to the standard closed loop coils. Just think about it. we get around 200% electromagnetic field (ignoring the wire savings) as opposed to standard closed loop coils. And then the overall reduction in wire length. I mean only properly conducted gravity torque tests can be of help now if we want hard proof.

I for one have made my commitment based on my data. How ever poorly taken. It is almost as if I show sings of faith almost!
{/1}

[JW]

 No one can upload photos at this time, I'm still working on this. wait for an update.

JW

[brandnewb]

So I think I have figured out a way to really compare apples to apples when it comes to coils in the context of the current dual rotor disk and each having their 96 magnets at a 3.75 degree interval.
And whether adding iron powder does any good in terms permeability of the field between the magnets of the rotor disks and thus will lead to an enhanced voltage generation ability of the coil.

This is my hypothesis. It has been for quite a while.

Now please jump in here and present the possible errors of my plan if you can spot one as consensus is all I care about.

So the idea is to have 2 identical 3 legged serpentine coils of 36 winds. Identical other than one is filled with basic resin and the other is filled with iron powder.

Yet both of them will be squeezed to their absolute minimum. I am guessing something of like 3 to 4mm will remain.

Now we know for sure that all the wires are concentrated on a fairly single plane.

Now we can start adding both sides of both coils with their respective resin composition (without any more wires of course) equally to reach their intended thickness.

The result will be a super thin few mm of wires in the center of the full 15mm coil.

And now, and only if I can make sure that both coils are equally positioned enough between the disks.
Only NOW we can take tests seriously.

Now mind you even the last part is no small feat. But I will get there.

Now before I break my head on actually doing this. Is there anyone that can see an error in the idea? I mean what is the point going through all this trouble if no one will take the data seriously and no one will take my test setup I offer to reproduce said results.

[brandnewb]

I would like to get notifications again of when I get feed backback on my content. Just like it has been for quite a while before.

Am I unaware of some kind of setting change that I really should be of?

[Flavio93Zena]

I would like to get notifications again of when I get feed backback on my content. Just like it has been for quite a while before.

Am I unaware of some kind of setting change that I really should be of?

Emails aren't working either, most likely.

[brandnewb]

early tests failed hard I thought why not only test the central shallow slab with the coils in them of both coils first. They are roughly 4.5mm thickness.


Also I made both slabs 35 winds resulting in a 35 -70 -35 configuration. Please never ask why I went for 36 while in theory 32 should have been enough already!

hahha well that flew back in my face like a boomerang as the iron powdered coil slab kept bending. who would have ever thought that 4.5mm of iron powder filled resin is not rigid enough to not bend with these kinds of fields around them ?

So I really have to extend the process now. Going to fill up both coils to 15mm in thickness and then finally be able to make some sense of this iron powder use.

And you already know that I do not mind if I can not demonstrate anything useful in terms of voltage generation ability. I will also report my failures.

However I still am considering still using this iron powered filled casting just to help the heat dissipation ability.

But now we have another challenge. How can we make sure that the casting process was rigid enough to prevent the 150 um sized particles of powder to stay put. Never move else risk chipping away at the enamel.

I'll be honest. I do not think that any configuration in terms of frequency will ever allow for this powder to allow to chip away at the enamel. Because the particles at ultra high frequencies will just get lazy and do nothing. (please do not trust this to be actual science!! this is just my effort to visualize it for my self)

Now then one, including myself, wonders. Why did coil #1 shorted out in earlier tests then?

hmm
I am still at a loss. Maybe just that coil did not like a massage and then went on strike?

Ahh and here lies the possible answer. I just used too much force during the installation process for it to short out. But truth be told I am no scientist so my own data could contradict my interpretation of said data if I just was good and making sense of all this.

Anyway. All systems go!!!

@MattM. Do you remember the thunderbird countdown?
we are now at 2 seconds before liftoff.

[MattM]

Ive been following your other blog updates.  I think 0 is go.

[brandnewb]

Ive been following your other blog updates.  I think 0 is go.

{1}dear brother, you know of course I meant all this below in good fun yes?{/1}
hahha why would you respond in such an ambiguous manner when you know you are dealing with the weird mind I have.

to me this means either you are waiting for things to lift of at 0 because you already have a sense that we are on the right track

or

yeah no matter what these early results have gotten us thus far. we are still not at 0 yet so only then we will know. and a GO can go horribly wrong as spaceX has been showing us.



you see how life is full of choices? too many I must say.

[MattM]

I have confidence there will be plenty of electrical harvesting with your 4:1 gear ratio.

[Bruce S]

hahha well that flew back in my face like a boomerang as the iron powdered coil slab kept bending. who would have ever thought that 4.5mm of iron powder filled resin is not rigid enough to not bend with these kinds of fields around them ?

So I really have to extend the process now. Going to fill up both coils to 15mm in thickness and then finally be able to make some sense of this iron powder use.

I'm a bit concerned about this. Is the resin actually bending when the magnets swing by it? That could mean a few things.
1) Resin pour was too thin to hold up under the forces
2) Resin wasn't completely dry and allowed the pour to bend
3) wrong type of resin? Most that I've used in the past was 2-part type that once hardened was going anywhere, though I did do a few very thin pours on purpose that would bend.

Bruce S

[brandnewb]

this particular easy flow poly resin does solidify well enough into a rigid structure when we take into account that most of the space is copper wires.

these slabs are pressed down on hard to obtain a minimal layer which in the grander tests should be central. I just thought like this;

heyy now I have got 2 slabs to play with. One powder filled and one without.

Like a toldler I just went at it..  I mean why not try it?

And then indeed even though there are not many iron particles in that slab when we are talking in terms of %.
Well the 230 mT field in the middle sure likes to cause all kinds of bending trouble though.

so your 1) remark is what is at play here.

2) nah, this is an easy flow poly resin that is ready to fight within 2 minutes.
3) it might be the wrong type in the grander scheme of things. but for these early test runs it is perfect as it does not stick very well to my PLA print templates and hardens soo fast I can't even squeeze a bathroom break in between.

and I forgot to mention that this is all without the magnets rotating. this is all during install time.

https://syntecshop.com/en/easyflo-60-polyurethane-resin-shore-d-65-fast-curedlow-viscosity

https://syntecshop.com/en/easyflo-60-polyurethane-resin-shore-d-65-fast-curedlow-viscosity

I do respect the poking. And please keep at it.
I call it a form of peer review.


But never let it be said that I was unable to explain myself ok?

And this message is in particular not to Bruce!


DD

I really need to get one thing out of the way once and for all.

I do not do hypocritical stuff or use my words in a cynical way.

Sure I contradict my self at times but boy am I easy to land back where I departed from.

Now all that is important here to me is; How can we find the means to actually quantify what a PMA can do.

[Flavio93Zena]

I merged your posts, can't tell JW that he's wrong for getting mad when you're posting 4 times in a row for no good reason :/ PLEASE edit your posts if you want to quickly add informations to what you already said, there are 2 buttons for it.

[brandnewb]

thank you brother,

I will admit that some if not most of the front user experience facing issues are because my browser is relentless in not allowing any kind of funny stuff.

I just do think even this simple machine software can be configure to just stop with the probing already!!!!!!!!!

other than that of course I am a loyal citizen here and I would love to show my results.