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151
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by topspeed on March 21, 2024, 01:20:37 AM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 20, 2024, 11:09:30 AM
My suggestion is to use metric as most of the people, even those on the correct side of the pond, have a feeling with that.

For those that do not then indeed there is always google :)
However I advice against google even though I always use their search :(

https://www.omnicalculator.com/conversion/imperial-to-metric-conversion
is what I would recommend if at all trustworthy.

I for one stopped trusting their calculator regarding the VAWT configuration of the wind turbine calculator.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/ecology/wind-turbine

Ok sure, I might just not fully understood how to dial in the numbers yet but to me this is too ambiguous.

Quote from: topspeed on March 17, 2024, 02:58:41 AM
Quote from: Mary B on March 16, 2024, 03:42:32 AM
Google has tools to change form one to the other...

25.4mm to the inch
2.54 cm per inch

from there it is easy to get feet...

Yes.

I am open to all suggestios...as I was cut short here where I operate.

Thanks I liked the calculators.
152
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by brandnewb on March 20, 2024, 04:23:10 PM »
the US is not known for it's privacy advocating legislation. So maybe I should warn the coils to not go there :)

Anyway. I am zeroing in on results. I could really use some pointers here :)

can I past images again? not even going to try unless told we can.
153
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by brandnewb on March 20, 2024, 11:09:30 AM »
My suggestion is to use metric as most of the people, even those on the correct side of the pond, have a feeling with that.

For those that do not then indeed there is always google :)
However I advice against google even though I always use their search :(

https://www.omnicalculator.com/conversion/imperial-to-metric-conversion
is what I would recommend if at all trustworthy.

I for one stopped trusting their calculator regarding the VAWT configuration of the wind turbine calculator.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/ecology/wind-turbine

Ok sure, I might just not fully understood how to dial in the numbers yet but to me this is too ambiguous.

Quote from: topspeed on March 17, 2024, 02:58:41 AM
Quote from: Mary B on March 16, 2024, 03:42:32 AM
Google has tools to change form one to the other...

25.4mm to the inch
2.54 cm per inch

from there it is easy to get feet...

Yes.

I am open to all suggestios...as I was cut short here where I operate.
154
Solar / Re: Output of solar panels depending on slope and azimut
« Last post by XeonPony on March 20, 2024, 08:22:13 AM »
Quote from: bigrockcandymountain on March 13, 2024, 09:01:36 AM
susdesign.com has some great tools for North America on the same topic. I used their tools for slope planning on my rooftop solar.  I also used their overhang calculator to visualize how my overhangs would work on my south facing windows.  They worked out almost perfect.

My slope is 65 degrees in winter and 20 degrees in summer.  The winter should be steeper for good snow shedding.  Otherwise it works out well. 

The new panels on the shop are vertical (90 degrees) and do great in the middle of winter.  They wont make much power in june, but we usually have lots that time of year.

If you have a smart phone a great app is Sunontrack, it is a paid app, but has reality augmentation so gives virtual overlay of the sun at various seasons real time.

Used it a fiew times and is pretty accurate, and based on reviews around the globe
155
Wind / Re: Christmas Windmill Time
« Last post by taylorp035 on March 18, 2024, 10:00:01 PM »
Decided to upgrade to (12) 1" dia. magnets per rotor instead of (6) 1.25" magnets.  Theory is the two magnets will hit each leg of the coil at the same time and increase the voltage over the old setup.

Over the last 3 months with my lowest air gap with 6 magnets, it would peak at 5-5.5 amps.  In a nice 15 mph breeze, it would average 1.5 amps over the windy time period, which isn't too bad.  I'm hoping the new magnets significantly improves this since my cut in will be lower and it will actually load the blades some more.
156
Solar / Re: Output of solar panels depending on slope and azimut
« Last post by taylorp035 on March 18, 2024, 08:43:03 PM »
I use the NREL website for this.  It can output the monthly totals and is fairly customizable from just about every input you can think of.

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/index.php
157
Site News / UPDATE
« Last post by JW on March 18, 2024, 03:01:54 PM »
Ok made some progress today. from this point we have to wait 48 hours, will update if sooner. once we get TechAdmin into the server well get all this sorted out. meanwhile the forum is still up.
158
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by topspeed on March 17, 2024, 02:58:41 AM »
Quote from: Mary B on March 16, 2024, 03:42:32 AM
Google has tools to change form one to the other...

25.4mm to the inch
2.54 cm per inch

from there it is easy to get feet...

Yes.

I am open to all suggestios...as I was cut short here where I operate.
159
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by Mary B on March 16, 2024, 03:42:32 AM »
Google has tools to change form one to the other...

25.4mm to the inch
2.54 cm per inch

from there it is easy to get feet...
160
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by topspeed on March 16, 2024, 12:34:14 AM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 10, 2024, 02:29:28 PM
Quote from: topspeed on March 06, 2024, 05:02:22 AM
;)

Ok dudes and babes !

I have nothing to show (but pictures in next post), but I can update.

In order to get some kinda positive results I have gotten really serious with this turbine developemnt of mine....like dead serious. :o

New tower is being done....with lot more heavy lumber 3''x 3'' and different kind...previous was a HAWT tower.

Moment arm is a bit shorter...but almost half as thick...and totally aerodynamic.

Wings are longer but more narrow. Foil is conventional.

This is all possible because of the new wood press and revitalization of the old heavy press. I have now wood composite available that is strong as  steel ( percentage wise in weight ).

Load is higher....and wires thicker.

I need to get like 300-400 % better results to get where I wanted.

What do you think will I succeed...or fail again ? :)

I think you and I should collaborate!

I am not reading much outside my bubble as I have learned that leads me to posting on someone else's threads like I do now. And I have also learned that can blow up in my face so I am rather hesitant regarding that.

But I think you and I are in the same boat.
At least the same continent ;)

Would it be a stretch to use metric as a baseline?

I mean I am not trying to diss at the brothers and sisters on the correct side of the pond but I am hoping/guessing that they have a better understanding/feeling of metric than we do of imperial.

Is my assumption correct? And how would we know?

Metric is just fine by me. :D
161
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by TechAdmin on March 15, 2024, 06:22:05 PM »
Quote from: JW on March 15, 2024, 02:09:29 PM
And swear to god if I hear someone mention a "6 digit security pin" Im gonna hit them in the head thru my land line.
LOL ;D
162
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by JW on March 15, 2024, 02:09:29 PM »
We are hosted in the  US  last I checked the server is in Atlanta GA I cant talk about HLS.
Flavio has done a great job.... For no one has been able to login to our server for months maybe a year.
And swear to god if I hear someone mention a "6 digit security pin" Im gonna hit them in the head thru my land line.
Yesterday I got really really close I will keep trying.
 
163
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by TechAdmin on March 14, 2024, 11:19:51 PM »
Disclaimer:
Google search will only go through public boards and works great.
Internal search (top of the page) includes everything the person starting the search has access to. However, it may (and will) come up with very irrelevant results (OLD), so in case you're looking for something not in a public board you may want to be restricting the date on the internal search.
164
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by JW on March 14, 2024, 10:04:26 PM »
 interesting quote-

Quote
The Betz limit is the theoretical maximum efficiency for a wind turbine, conjectured by German physicist Albert Betz in 1919. Betz concluded that this value is 59.3%, meaning that at most only 59.3% of the kinetic energy from wind can be used to spin the turbine and generate electricity.

Next comes TSR  (tip  speed rotation)

For a VWAT you need to search for that info relates to that.

At the bottom of the page on the main page there is a google search thingyee. search that for VWAT turbine. There is tonns of info here in our database.
165
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the limits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by TechAdmin on March 14, 2024, 05:05:49 PM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 14, 2024, 07:19:53 AM
You know what to come meet you half way I would be ok is this thread would be merged with the non logged in VAWT experiments. After all it is the same project.
Huhhhh I'm not sure we want to do that, all posts would get mixed in chronological order and it would be an absolute mess, I would request all mods/admins to actually refrain from merging them, as undoing that would be *considerably* more complicated.
Like, I understand your point of view and agree with it, but from a forum perspective it's bad :D
166
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by Mary B on March 14, 2024, 10:24:53 AM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 14, 2024, 07:19:53 AM
Quote from: JW on March 13, 2024, 07:55:46 PM

 Im just going to say it once.   "Jonny Cool pants"

hahahh that one I am going to carve into the turbine if You will allow for it :) So the Phoenix her name is now officially "Jonny Cool pants" :) (again if you will allow for it that is JW)

Now I am not sure about my posting interval.
I mean the time difference between
Reply #160 on: March 13, 2024, 01:42:39 PM

and in reaction to MattM I posted again on
March 13, 2024, 10:07:58 PM

How is that time difference too short? And I also am making use of the {x}{/x} edits to lessen the noise.

You know what to come meet you half way I would be ok is this thread would be merged with the non logged in VAWT experiments. After all it is the same project.

Just allow me to post publicly the results when all is said and done and then everything is fine in my books.

A daily update to you diary would cover it... I often post to a notepad document for the day then update a forum at the end of the day if I am in the middle of a project. Less clutter and disjointed hard to follow posts... allows editing into a seamless story line before copy and pasting to the forum...
167
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by topspeed on March 14, 2024, 08:04:58 AM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 10, 2024, 02:17:12 PM
hahahha Cola.

ahh Cola. Now I am not old enough to ever had the real !coca! cola. you know the one with the good stuff in it :)

Then they turned to caffeine which I only started consuming a few years ago in the form of coffee. in BULK though :)

Nah my drink of choice is a good spirit. One that gets one twirling instantly ;)

But yes sometimes I favor some cola.



---------





 But then with a twist added :)

After the war people here used to pour amfetamine in their coffee...it was supposed to be envigorating.
168
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 14, 2024, 07:22:39 AM »
things are looking good for stacked serpentine coils thus far. I just do hope I did not blunder again.

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/building-the-sickest-%C2%AE-vawt-ever-brilliant-minds-unite-please.31934/post-1035939

TLDR: sharing coil legs between coils does not half the field. So basically we get 200% of field available to all magnets when using serpentine.
169
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by brandnewb on March 14, 2024, 07:19:53 AM »
Quote from: JW on March 13, 2024, 07:55:46 PM

 Im just going to say it once.   "Jonny Cool pants"

hahahh that one I am going to carve into the turbine if You will allow for it :) So the Phoenix her name is now officially "Jonny Cool pants" :) (again if you will allow for it that is JW)

Now I am not sure about my posting interval.
I mean the time difference between
Reply #160 on: March 13, 2024, 01:42:39 PM

and in reaction to MattM I posted again on
March 13, 2024, 10:07:58 PM

How is that time difference too short? And I also am making use of the {x}{/x} edits to lessen the noise.

You know what to come meet you half way I would be ok is this thread would be merged with the non logged in VAWT experiments. After all it is the same project.

Just allow me to post publicly the results when all is said and done and then everything is fine in my books.


170
Wind / Re: H-Darreius wind turbines ( VAWT ) !
« Last post by topspeed on March 14, 2024, 04:50:46 AM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 11, 2024, 07:27:38 AM
@Topspeed,

If you come install it on Bali then I will be your first customer :)

But Indonesia is not know for consistent enforcement of the regulations so there might be hiccups at customs. Usually these hiccups are resolved by employing an ancient method. One that involved motivating the officer involved to play ball somehow.

Ok I am a ball player. ;D
171
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by TechAdmin on March 14, 2024, 12:05:10 AM »
Ahhh ok, I see what you mean now for the posts. Still, it's good he's engaging with the forum at least :)
172
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by JW on March 13, 2024, 10:38:50 PM »
I posted that many times in a row, so he could see what its like. compare the number of the front page between my posts and his, a total. yes I could have edited my posts but he's not doing that.

I don't care 3 months back everything was fine. Before he started posting. look I've got 10 grand invested in this place over 20 years. As mentioned previously I did this to preserve the data base.

I'm sorry when you have a user name that says I'm an idiot, its not right.

JW
173
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by TechAdmin on March 13, 2024, 10:03:03 PM »
You tell him he posts too much as you post 3 times in a row, you're not making any sense, JW. Sorry :(

I do agree he occasionally posts multiple times in a row and it's generally frowned upon, however, if it's a legitimate status update after a day or two, he can do so, because other users would NOT get a notification about his last post being edited in the meantime and would miss the update.
Some posts I did merge them myself, as they were genuinely unnecessarily too quick.
174
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by JW on March 13, 2024, 09:25:26 PM »

 look I've done bunch of work with EV's and was awarded a Patent   US 8261575 B1

Its for a traction motor for a Low Volt EV. the battery's that exist cant be used, Lead acid, Lithium.

We need to develop a battery that's in the middle.

JW
175
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by JW on March 13, 2024, 07:55:46 PM »

 Im just going to say it once.   "Jonny Cool pants"
176
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by JW on March 13, 2024, 06:58:27 PM »
Brandnewb,

 YOUR POSTING TO MUCH

your crowding the forum.

You are being rude to the long time users.

If you keep it up I will delete your account. the admins wont be able to recover your account.


JW
177
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by brandnewb on March 13, 2024, 05:07:58 PM »
hmm ok well it should be easy enough to experimentally find out whether it is about the area of wires in a field (also translated as the total length of the wire in a field)

or like I propose about the length of the wire that runs perpendicular to the motion of the field.

Now if the orientation of the wire does not matter than that opens up a whole new world of possibilities. I am going a little overboard now but then having 2mm diam micro coils is becoming a possibility.

But just try putting a coil on its side when running magnets over it. I found it does next to nothing. I am not sure if this is related or that I drawn the wrong conclusions. And what ever it did do any field that might have been produced will never reach the magnets.

However, my vantage point is a coil shape that matches the magnet positioning.

If you were referring to circular coils then all bets are off and we might find something wild indeed :)

{1}after more thought it will probably be a dead end. Now I am willing to try because of respect for the community and why not lets try things yes
But, by my current visualisation, the micro coils will end up getting opposing induced currents and end up doing next to nothing
{/1}
178
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by MattM on March 13, 2024, 02:58:15 PM »
I tried to post  a pic but got sidetracked.

I hadn't seen the length of the coil leg being so critical, just area.  That would impair the strategy in that case unless using wedge coils to maximixe area.
179
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 13, 2024, 11:46:55 AM »
@joestru

Here I am going to give the push through template another chance.
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/building-the-sickest-%C2%AE-vawt-ever-brilliant-minds-unite-please.31934/post-1035320

If this can work then the pressing of coils makes sense again to me.
180
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 13, 2024, 09:11:45 AM »
I would like to make it known that in the meantime I also have bought and gotten a packerpack of Homebrew Wind Power by Dan Bartman & Dan Fink.

It was suggested to me elsewhere and I saw some interesting entries in the table of contents.

It is a great book that for sure. But unless I am once again unable to find what will help me get to 52vAC at 3.7 Hz then again I think I should trust my self some more :)

Anyway. the proof of concept PMA rotors are ready for trail runs. all 192 magnets!!

I am now going for a serpentine version of the stacked coils as it is basically the same thing but then with a little less resistance in the coil wires overall.

I might revisit my posts once pasting images is possible and easy to do so that I can add images at the places where they make sense in my posts.

181
Solar / Re: Output of solar panels depending on slope and azimut
« Last post by bigrockcandymountain on March 13, 2024, 09:01:36 AM »
susdesign.com has some great tools for North America on the same topic. I used their tools for slope planning on my rooftop solar.  I also used their overhang calculator to visualize how my overhangs would work on my south facing windows.  They worked out almost perfect.

My slope is 65 degrees in winter and 20 degrees in summer.  The winter should be steeper for good snow shedding.  Otherwise it works out well. 

The new panels on the shop are vertical (90 degrees) and do great in the middle of winter.  They wont make much power in june, but we usually have lots that time of year. 
182
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by brandnewb on March 13, 2024, 08:42:39 AM »
Quote from: MattM on March 12, 2024, 11:38:10 AM
With your stick magnets could you run a stack of mini-coils in serial to boost voltage?  Perhaps instead of 30 wraps you stack three 10s in a line.

I just figured why this probably will not work. That is if I understood your intend correctly.

The length of the coil legs in the field is a factor in voltage creation. If we break this up into smaller parts then we will be adding relatively less of leg length into the field and adding more resistance to phase in total because of the extra wire needed to close the loops.
183
Solar / Output of solar panels depending on slope and azimut
« Last post by Adriaan Kragten on March 13, 2024, 06:19:32 AM »
Recently I found a very interesting website of PVGIS Europe. On this website you can find the output of solar panels depending on the country, the total peak power, the slope and the azimuth for every month of the year. I have written the small Dutch note: "Opbrengst van zonnepanelen in december afhankelijk van de dakhoek (slope) en de stand t.o.v. het zuiden (azimuth). This note can be copied from my website: www.kdwindturbines.nl at the menu KD-reports at the bottom of the list with reports. Figure 1 out of this note gives a direct impression of the effect of the slope and the azimuth for December. Although the note is in Dutch, this figure can be understood by everyone (dakhoek = slope). The figure gives the reduction factor for the output if the solar panel is compared to a panel with a slope of 75° and an azimuth of 0° in The Netherlands. December is the most difficult month for solar power at the northern hemisphere and therefore this month is chosen. But a similar figure can be made for every other month and every other country in Europe using the website of PVGIS Europe. For America, you have to chose a point on the map of Europe with the same latitude.
184
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 04:07:33 PM »
after reviewing that video again in the defence of this dude though I hear him saying "then snip it in half" while making the "lits wire" while we never see that happen.

Now if both ends of the wire are indeed a bunch of parallel enameld wires then ok then it is a litz wire. But I think he never snipped it in half as I can see no signs of that when looking at his wire.

I guess he got tired and forgot that important part and ended up with a super flat and super long coil that will do next to nothing in practise.

But anyway this guy I like to avoid as all he does is regurgitate fun experiments of others while neglecting to do some actual testing with those ideas.
If I do not avoid stuff like that I will never get anything done I am afraid.
185
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by Bruce S on March 12, 2024, 04:03:56 PM »
In short Nope.
I've watched even that one, and while he made a mistake he had apologized , unlike most others who will not.

Therefore I will continue to agree to disagree about the English Chap.

Good thing on Ed's for several reasons, that I will not go into at this point.
You do your stuff. The links were mainly so you had extra reference points not a critique of an individual.

Bruce S

186
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 03:45:42 PM »
ahh yes I did also look at that other link. I saw nothing to complain about on windstuffnow btw.
187
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 03:37:29 PM »
I am talking about this dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ttV0zt5XOE

here he goes on with a flat coil, which he calls a lits wire while it is not a litz wire, and shows how to wind an exotic coil configuration. but then leaves out the important bits like he normally does. Like testing things and demonstrating its capabilities.

here he tries to wiggle his way after being called out. But does so in the least convincing way ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=213PDBS66lo

I did not look at your other link yet though. I have not formed an opinion yet about that.

So can we agree to agree again?
188
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by Bruce S on March 12, 2024, 02:21:45 PM »
Quote from: brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 11:26:41 AM
Dear brother,

I did not want to say anything at first but then I thought it important that I would.

This guy is high on my list of people to avoid. This guy is full of half stories and never actually demonstrates things actually.
It took a superior of his to make him admit he screwed up royalty in one of his videos regarding using a lits wire as coil wire using some exotic configuration. And even then he side stepped the actually issue where he let us on the wrong path.

This guy is a danger to society for as far I have been able to value his content.

Quote from: Bruce S on March 11, 2024, 05:28:50 PM
Perhaps this chap's explanation will help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK1ZM9WIBh4&list=WL&index=119

Also ; on here a great many years ago, Ed Lenz (Yes, that Ed Lenz ) also had what he called a "WAVE" winding.
https://www.windstuffnow.com/main/3phase_turbine_kit.htm
Here's a link to his kit, but the explanation remains the same.

There are pros and cons of each type, for me WAVE & Serpentine are identical, the English Chap's method and tools you can print out and reuse seems the easiest these days.
 
Bruce S
Then we will need to agree to disagree.
Unless you can show proof of what you're stating.
Especially since I used his SAND battery steps to build a "test" one with no issues

And since you didn't say which one , I'm guessing you're talking about the Englishman.

Bruce S
189
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 01:18:55 PM »
I tried imgur several times now. I do not like their policies.

Also I am building a turbine. Not a self hosted image sharing platform.

So I am going to do the unspeakable unless forbidden.

Look at how syco this looks. and then to think this is only half of the magnets

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/building-the-sickest-%C2%AE-vawt-ever-brilliant-minds-unite-please.31934/page-82#post-1034604
190
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 12:16:47 PM »
I tried that once in pairs of 2. not 3. But than rather narrow over only the magnet width of 10mm.

The results were so abysmal that I quickly burried that work and never told anyone about it :)

But I guess you are suggesting to break up a full shaped coil into separated parts? That I have not tried yet.

But I can only imagine it will hurt the field forming abilities whilst boosting the voltage forming abilities.

But if you could give me a little bit more of your train of thought then why not I just try it out for size?
191
Coil winding / Re: How to determine the lmits of a coil / magnet configuration
« Last post by MattM on March 12, 2024, 11:38:10 AM »
With your stick magnets could you run a stack of mini-coils in serial to boost voltage?  Perhaps instead of 30 wraps you stack three 10s in a line.
192
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 11:26:41 AM »
Dear brother,

I did not want to say anything at first but then I thought it important that I would.

This guy is high on my list of people to avoid. This guy is full of half stories and never actually demonstrates things actually.
It took a superior of his to make him admit he screwed up royalty in one of his videos regarding using a lits wire as coil wire using some exotic configuration. And even then he side stepped the actually issue where he let us on the wrong path.

This guy is a danger to society for as far I have been able to value his content.

Quote from: Bruce S on March 11, 2024, 05:28:50 PM
Perhaps this chap's explanation will help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK1ZM9WIBh4&list=WL&index=119

Also ; on here a great many years ago, Ed Lenz (Yes, that Ed Lenz ) also had what he called a "WAVE" winding.
https://www.windstuffnow.com/main/3phase_turbine_kit.htm
Here's a link to his kit, but the explanation remains the same.

There are pros and cons of each type, for me WAVE & Serpentine are identical, the English Chap's method and tools you can print out and reuse seems the easiest these days.
 
Bruce S
193
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 10:12:35 AM »
hahaha and of course I blundered again magnificently with the idea of using a timing belt as the pulley profile for a similar timing belt.

The belts came in today and that will never work. not even if one really really wanted it to work :( :0

So I have learned that it is perfectly possible to print T10 timing belt pullies with a 1mm nozzle so that prints take around 1 hour rather than more than 9hrs with a 0.2mm nozzle I used for a T5 timing belt pulley.

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Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 10:02:50 AM »
when taking into account the extra wirelength a coil will need at the ends of it's legs I made use of half circles this time around to more closly resemble the wire path in practice rather than an unobtainable optimum like I did earlier.

187.808721mm for one closed loop coil.

and for 2 serpentine coils that would be.
247.805151mm
now / 2 =  123.9025755 for 1 serpentine coil even though that can not exist in nature.

So then when calculating then the extra amount of wire between the paths then I end up with
41.0034% of a difference. Rather close to what MattM has read.

Now I am really interested in this serpentine coils and am going for it. But before Ifinalize the PMA before it can go into service I will measure the fields the coils can produce as opposed to their closed loop counter parts.



195
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 09:00:08 AM »
the problem I have encountered with pressing is it is easier said than done.

one want the coils to stay in place while pressing so that means the the press must slip in between the coil holder slots.

Now with anything from 1mm diam wires that could work on the leg part as then the coil wires in that part are not easy to slip in between the coil holder slot and the press.

For the extremity parts of the coil they will not want to move and forcing them is asking, nee begging, for the enamel to get damaged.

But I will try pressing with these .71mm diam wires. see if I can print the press just snug enough for the wires not being able to slip through and that the extremety parts of the coils will spread open easy enough without too much friction between the wires.

And then we end up with a 3 phase coil that we need to take out of the template we pressed it in :) that will also take a week by my current battle plan, if one wants to do it carefully not risking wires to get damaged in the process :)



Quote from: joestue on March 12, 2024, 02:27:39 AM
Quote from: MattM on March 12, 2024, 12:18:09 AM
Serpentines are highly efficient use of wire.  I read the serpentine coil can use 40% less material for the same output.  That makes it actually a pretty good solution.  The downside is its much more difficult to do multiple phases.  Doing more phases seems justifiable when in general it usually decreases cogging.

yeah i'd be real curious where you read that.

i still don't understand why its not rather easy to make 3 to 6 serpentine coils, and use a press to push them together and force the end turns to overlap each other. you should then get a 3-6 phase mostly trapezoidal waveform that you can rectify separately or together in various combinations to change the voltage.
196
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by brandnewb on March 12, 2024, 03:23:47 AM »
for 3 coils in a serpentine I would need 302.821mm of wire path.

for 3 closed loop coils I would need 489.567mm of wire path.

{1}perhaps easer to draw conclusions if I use the wire path length of 2 coils.
for 2 serpentine coils that is 223.189mm wire path length
of 2 closed loop coils that is 2 x 163.189mm = 324.812mm wire path length
{/1}

when using closed loop coils I can fit 48 of them on a disk. between the closed loop coils there is no field of the same phase.

when using serpentine coils I can fit 96 of them on a disk with no gaps in the field per phase.

But since 2 coils in a serpentine share a coil leg I still have to establish by means of experiment the electromagnetic al field the serpentine coils can generate will be half of that of its closed loop counter part. But i think so. that would be only logical.

But since we use less copper the resistance will decrease thus the field producing ability will increase.

choices  choices :)
197
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by joestue on March 12, 2024, 02:27:39 AM »
Quote from: MattM on March 12, 2024, 12:18:09 AM
Serpentines are highly efficient use of wire.  I read the serpentine coil can use 40% less material for the same output.  That makes it actually a pretty good solution.  The downside is its much more difficult to do multiple phases.  Doing more phases seems justifiable when in general it usually decreases cogging.

yeah i'd be real curious where you read that.

i still don't understand why its not rather easy to make 3 to 6 serpentine coils, and use a press to push them together and force the end turns to overlap each other. you should then get a 3-6 phase mostly trapezoidal waveform that you can rectify separately or together in various combinations to change the voltage.
198
Site News / Re: We had a great week!!!!
« Last post by TechAdmin on March 12, 2024, 02:00:03 AM »
Cool, hopefully you can invest some of those into here when you're done then :)
199
Logged in diaries / Re: VAWT backyard experiements
« Last post by MattM on March 12, 2024, 12:18:09 AM »
Serpentines are highly efficient use of wire.  I read the serpentine coil can use 40% less material for the same output.  That makes it actually a pretty good solution.  The downside is its much more difficult to do multiple phases.  Doing more phases seems justifiable when in general it usually decreases cogging.
200
Site News / Re: We had a great week!!!!
« Last post by JW on March 12, 2024, 12:09:53 AM »
I've come into some money its over 100 grand. That's why there is a delay. I'm working on that instead of the forum here.
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