Fieldlines.com: The Otherpower discussion board

Dear brother,

I did not want to say anything at first but then I thought it important that I would.

This guy is high on my list of people to avoid. This guy is full of half stories and never actually demonstrates things actually.
It took a superior of his to make him admit he screwed up royalty in one of his videos regarding using a lits wire as coil wire using some exotic configuration. And even then he side stepped the actually issue where he let us on the wrong path.

This guy is a danger to society for as far I have been able to value his content.

Quote from: Bruce S on March 11, 2024, 05:28:50 PM

Perhaps this chap's explanation will help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK1ZM9WIBh4&list=WL&index=119

Also ; on here a great many years ago, Ed Lenz (Yes, that Ed Lenz ) also had what he called a "WAVE" winding.
https://www.windstuffnow.com/main/3phase_turbine_kit.htm
Here's a link to his kit, but the explanation remains the same.

There are pros and cons of each type, for me WAVE & Serpentine are identical, the English Chap's method and tools you can print out and reuse seems the easiest these days.
 
Bruce S

Then we will need to agree to disagree.
Unless you can show proof of what you're stating.
Especially since I used his SAND battery steps to build a "test" one with no issues

And since you didn't say which one , I'm guessing you're talking about the Englishman.

Bruce S

I tried that once in pairs of 2. not 3. But than rather narrow over only the magnet width of 10mm.

The results were so abysmal that I quickly burried that work and never told anyone about it

But I guess you are suggesting to break up a full shaped coil into separated parts? That I have not tried yet.

But I can only imagine it will hurt the field forming abilities whilst boosting the voltage forming abilities.

But if you could give me a little bit more of your train of thought then why not I just try it out for size?

Dear brother,

I did not want to say anything at first but then I thought it important that I would.

This guy is high on my list of people to avoid. This guy is full of half stories and never actually demonstrates things actually.
It took a superior of his to make him admit he screwed up royalty in one of his videos regarding using a lits wire as coil wire using some exotic configuration. And even then he side stepped the actually issue where he let us on the wrong path.

This guy is a danger to society for as far I have been able to value his content.

Perhaps this chap's explanation will help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK1ZM9WIBh4&list=WL&index=119

Also ; on here a great many years ago, Ed Lenz (Yes, that Ed Lenz ) also had what he called a "WAVE" winding.
https://www.windstuffnow.com/main/3phase_turbine_kit.htm
Here's a link to his kit, but the explanation remains the same.

There are pros and cons of each type, for me WAVE & Serpentine are identical, the English Chap's method and tools you can print out and reuse seems the easiest these days.
 
Bruce S

when taking into account the extra wirelength a coil will need at the ends of it's legs I made use of half circles this time around to more closly resemble the wire path in practice rather than an unobtainable optimum like I did earlier.

187.808721mm for one closed loop coil.

and for 2 serpentine coils that would be.
247.805151mm
now / 2 =  123.9025755 for 1 serpentine coil even though that can not exist in nature.

So then when calculating then the extra amount of wire between the paths then I end up with
41.0034% of a difference. Rather close to what MattM has read.

Now I am really interested in this serpentine coils and am going for it. But before Ifinalize the PMA before it can go into service I will measure the fields the coils can produce as opposed to their closed loop counter parts.

for 3 coils in a serpentine I would need 302.821mm of wire path.

for 3 closed loop coils I would need 489.567mm of wire path.

{1}perhaps easer to draw conclusions if I use the wire path length of 2 coils.
for 2 serpentine coils that is 223.189mm wire path length
of 2 closed loop coils that is 2 x 163.189mm = 324.812mm wire path length
{/1}

when using closed loop coils I can fit 48 of them on a disk. between the closed loop coils there is no field of the same phase.

when using serpentine coils I can fit 96 of them on a disk with no gaps in the field per phase.

But since 2 coils in a serpentine share a coil leg I still have to establish by means of experiment the electromagnetic al field the serpentine coils can generate will be half of that of its closed loop counter part. But i think so. that would be only logical.

But since we use less copper the resistance will decrease thus the field producing ability will increase.

choices  choices

Cool, hopefully you can invest some of those into here when you're done then

I've come into some money its over 100 grand. That's why there is a delay. I'm working on that instead of the forum here.

Perhaps this chap's explanation will help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK1ZM9WIBh4&list=WL&index=119

Also ; on here a great many years ago, Ed Lenz (Yes, that Ed Lenz ) also had what he called a "WAVE" winding.
https://www.windstuffnow.com/main/3phase_turbine_kit.htm
Here's a link to his kit, but the explanation remains the same.

There are pros and cons of each type, for me WAVE & Serpentine are identical, the English Chap's method and tools you can print out and reuse seems the easiest these days.
 
Bruce S

I meant with 100% serpentine is to not have any breaks in the coil. So basically a single snake (per phase so 3 in total overlapping each other) that runs, unbroken, around the whole disk.

This goes against the ability to (de)install the PMA in segments. I can still go for a serpentine in segments but then the start and end slots will be half winds of that of those in between.

The longer I think of it the less I see the point of closed loop coils. I must be overlooking something.

And I'll say it again here as well. I think by now that stacking coils and a serpentine in segments (not the unbroken serpentine) are basically the same thing.

I don't think that's a good thing.
What if anything can we help with

Bruce S

The reasoning is multifold.

For one I am worried that once the load on the alternator (battery bank directly or cheap charge controller) will slow down the turbine to a crawl and hence also the voltage the PMA can produce.
(but on the other hand I am not dismayed by that at all. It then signals me that the PMA has got the potential I am looking for)
I can then change the drive ratio to something else in an effort to match the PMA to the load.

Another reason is that although I no longer see the turbine column flex what so ever (after upgrading it to alu 100mmx5mm) I am still worried that because it actually still is flexing or will eventually become worse then we get to the point of Adraain's remark in where he warned about the potential issues with a flexing column in a direct drive scenario.
Now I know one of you posted a suggestion here in another thread earlier with an image of how to deal with that. My best guess it was MattM but given he does not remember I must be mistaken.

Another reason is so that I can consider going 100% serpentine. No more modularity. This is only an advantage if the PMA can still be taken for service without having to dismantle the whole turbine. Thus having the PMA detached is beneficial in that regard.

Now of course I am aiming for the least amount of possible points of failure, so if it turns out that a 1:1 ratio works then gone be pullies and timing belts. Then the direct drive is back in town and here to stay.

Quote from: brandnewb on March 09, 2024, 01:46:15 PM

I am printing pullies as we speak for a 1 to 1 ratio timing belt driven PMA so it can be detached from the turbine.

Is there a reason why you want to detach the PMA from the turbine?

Bruce S

So I could really use some of our readers gut feelings here as I am about to start building but before I do I need to make a choice between serpentine and closed loop coils.

I will lay out the pro's and cons for each option as far as my research has told me. And sure I could have done things wrong and am drawing the wrong conclusions but such is life and I need to get going!

serpentine:
pro:
* there is a magnetic field between all legs making for a more spread field over all the magnets.
con:
* there will be no more ability to modularize the PMA (de) installation if we are going for maximum coil density.
 * if we would accept the start and end coils of each phase to be half density then modularization is still possible.

* we'd probably end up with a few failed attempts thus wasting quite some copper wire.


closed loop:
pro:
* easy to wind and install
con:
* there is no magnetic field in between coils of the same phase.


choices choices. I am leaning towards serpentine though but I really could use some gut feelings one might have.

{1}I forgot to mention that stacking coils is basically the same thing as serpentine as far I have understood my results thus far. But then with more wire length which I am still not sure about if that is a good or bad thing. I am leaning towards we should keep the resistance in the wires to a minimum but I have read other sources suggesting the contra yet I do not remember where{/1}

Topspeed has a name that truly fits his build.  Not only is he going for fast, he has regular high windspeeds to test with.  And boy does his project live up to his moniker.

Like skid's waterwheel project, I can see topspeed's design becoming a commercial endeavor.

Well I guess Finland's flag is closer to his origin flag lol

I take NL to be Newfoundland?

Ok dudes and babes !

I have nothing to show (but pictures in next post), but I can update.

In order to get some kinda positive results I have gotten really serious with this turbine developemnt of mine....like dead serious.

New tower is being done....with lot more heavy lumber 3''x 3'' and different kind...previous was a HAWT tower.

Moment arm is a bit shorter...but almost half as thick...and totally aerodynamic.

Wings are longer but more narrow. Foil is conventional.

This is all possible because of the new wood press and revitalization of the old heavy press. I have now wood composite available that is strong as  steel ( percentage wise in weight ).

Load is higher....and wires thicker.

I need to get like 300-400 % better results to get where I wanted.

What do you think will I succeed...or fail again ?

I think you and I should collaborate!

I am not reading much outside my bubble as I have learned that leads me to posting on someone else's threads like I do now. And I have also learned that can blow up in my face so I am rather hesitant regarding that.

But I think you and I are in the same boat.
At least the same continent

Would it be a stretch to use metric as a baseline?

I mean I am not trying to diss at the brothers and sisters on the correct side of the pond but I am hoping/guessing that they have a better understanding/feeling of metric than we do of imperial.

Is my assumption correct? And how would we know?

screw this. I am not going to wait +9hrs for a timing belt pully print that will probably fail somewhere when I was not watching.

I am going to use another timing belt as pully.

Of course this is beyond reason at the moment but I just need to get something done and STAT!!

Please remember this is all still an early proof of concept stage. SO cutting corners HARD is allowed at this stage and time.

hahha not me at least. I am printing pullies in the NL.

And unless topspeed is out and about he is probably in Finland

Damned cold here too with this chilling wind in the NL. And we are already heading into spring mind you.

But the potatoes have been promoted to a spot outside non the less. I do not hope it will freeze again this season.

But I have come to learn that me complaining about my local weather is a bad idea. There are people out there far worse off then I have ever experienced.

Some parts of the US can be brutal these days (or perhaps always have been) and Finland. Well Finland I think can be brutal as well. But I heard from someone who lives there that there is almost no wind there in winter time. At least in the part where he lives. That is a bummer

That could be a perfectly decent way to keep outbuildings heated during winters, especially where natural groundwater intrusion is not an issue.  What happens when water does intrude into one of these systems?

Whatever I use (bar oxy acetylene) I always do it through my inverter rather than the generator  Always found the weld to be better when done via inverter. Perhaps I'm just a carp welder 

Your ?: Is there an input panel wattage maximum? Or does the controller take what it gets and only uses what it can make use of if the input power is more than it can push out?

That depends on the chargers design. Some you'll fry if you exceed the recommended input value others like my growatts, even tho the manual gives a max input, I can take my full 31kw's of panels & dump it into their chargers & they don't even flinch. But you should have a charger for each set of arrays that match the chargers input & you can daisy chain multiple chargers but there may be a limit how many can be daisy chained with some brands & mixing different charger brands & even same brand with a different output rating is a no no in most cases.

I've got Growatt chargers & if there's a battery disconnect, they'll alarm & immediately disconnect the panels. All the chargers I've tried say connect the battery before the panels. That seems to be the way most chargers are designed.

so we have more similarities after all. I am also thinking about my offspring when I keep hammering on.

I also use possibly more Cola drinks than you...as I have studied in GA Tech.