A suggestion of "G83-lite"

[DamonHD]

In the UK, the G83 standard essentially allows any householder to connect microgeneration totalling up to about 4kW (16A per phase) to the grid, and they can't be refused by the DNO (Distribution Network Operator) that provides the mains electricity supply to the house.

But the connection has to be done by a suitably qualified electrician which makes any microgeneration relatively expensive and a nuisance to install.

Not everyone has the money or space for a full set of solar panels or a turbine, and not everyone can make expensive permanent property alterations, such as a student in a rented flat halfway up the block, but they might still have decent sunshine 'going to waste' in a southern window, and they might still want to be 'part of the solution'...

I'd like it to be possible for an individual householder to do their bit for the grid with more-or-less the same ease as they buy a new kettle, ie that they should be able to buy a cheap off-the-shelf mass-produced device that they can plug into an ordinary mains socket at one end and at the other a solar PV generating curtain liner or solar awning or shutters, etc.

More here: http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-G83-lite.html

Rgds

Damon

PS. I am aware that this would have to be done well to make sense in terms of energy and money...

[dnix71]

You can buy a package on ebay that will do that. You would just wire the Enphase inverter to a plug like your stove or clothes dryer. Unfortunately it's stupidly expensive. You'll never get your money back and if the grid fails you won't have it as a backup because it is a proper grid tie inverter. A lot of people in south Florida already have an outlet input jacked like that so they can connect a generator when the power fails during a hurricane.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Grid-Tie-Micro-Solar-Package-175-watt-Panel-Inverter_W0QQitemZ160308419033QQcmdZ
ViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item160308419033&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A12
05%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

There are two plugin inverters that are UK G83 compliant that would be useful for a small setup, but they are also stupidly expensive.

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Grid-Tie-Inverters.htm

[DamonHD]

I agree that they exist, the trouble is that they aren't legal in the UK so far as I know.

I did exactly have that Soladin device in mind.

And in this case it wouldn't be about keeping the lights on when the grid is down, but rather about a steady drip drip drip of renewable power into the grid to help reduce GHG emissions.

Rgds

Damon

[dnix71]

Here's a blog of a guy who found some old Trace Microsine inverters and put a regular appliance cord on them. He used a 12/24 stepup converter to make it work.

http://www.uvm.edu/~rnizlek/solar/intertie.html

It isn't legal in the US to do what you want to, either. It seems harmless enough, but if the grid fails and they don't go offline properly you can have a fire or shock a lineman.

Plus, the Soladin is 100 Pounds UK for 90 watts out. If you have a lightning strike or a power surge, that's a lot of money lost over a trickle of electricity.

The best way to save power is for people to use less. People have become spoiled by cheap oil and electric. I had a medium sized fridge once that used very little power. But it had to be manually defrosted, it wouldn't keep ice cream frozen, and it didn't have an icemaker and cold water in the door, either.

Motorcycles and mopeds use less gas, but I value my life and health too much to ride in the road with cars and trucks.

[DamonHD]

Hi,

I don't think that inverter-damaging surges are all that common in urban UK (I do know people that live in exposed places that rush round pulling out plugs at the first hint of thunder: they could extend that to any grid-tie plug too of course).

And I'd expect prices to drop drastically with mass-production.

A whole 100W solar-drape-plus-inverter might be £100, and that should be enough to make most small households' meters run backwards near noon on a sunny day if people were motivated at the same time to turn everything off standby, etc.

That would be a large part of the value, IMHO; giving a better appreciation for what energy is being used and the fact that it isn't free in the money or physics or environmental sense.

26.5M UK households each injecting 100W at noon would be ~5% of demand removed from the grid.

Rgds

Damon

[tecker]

Some one has worked up an equipment list on grid ties . Electricians no doubt have a code book that gives interconnects to a metering base and the power company really needs a seperate meter for the return power . Turning the meter backwards is cool but it's not a long term solution .

[DamonHD]

Well, with a trusted total generation meter per device and/or 'ratcheted' import/export meters it can all be disentangled after the event with a bit of simple arithmetic...

And I'm suggesting keeping the ceiling per household low enough to avoid any significant financial threat to the electricity suppliers.

Rgds

Damon