Author Topic: Grid tied inverter, anyone?  (Read 1297 times)

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chinsettawong

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Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« on: December 29, 2005, 01:57:52 PM »
In the past one year that I have been using power from my windgen, I smoked 3 inverters.  My bank of batteries is also showing a sign of illness.  These are expensive replacements.  I know that if I had done my homework better, I should have spent a little bit more money and bought deep cycles batteries.  But I was too excited after finished my first turbine and I ran out to buy car batteries.


Anyway,  does anybody here use a grid tied inverter?  Is it worth the investment?


Wachara C.

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 01:57:52 PM by (unknown) »

wpowokal

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2005, 07:09:08 AM »
Grid tie does not necessarily mean no batteries if I understand it correctly. But they are out there, search for "windyboy" I think that is one.


allan down under

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 07:09:08 AM by wpowokal »
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chinsettawong

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2005, 07:22:36 AM »
I have read the web site and I still have doubt on the reliability.


Wachara C.

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 07:22:36 AM by chinsettawong »

Waterfront

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2005, 09:14:46 AM »
Last week I saw a story in my local paper, about a guy in the north of my province (NB, Canada) using grid tied solar panels. During the day, he'd put out electricity on the grid, and at night, he'd draw electricity from the grid, in effect using the grid as his giant batteries.


So, it's possible to have grid tied inverters, I'm just not sure if it's doable over in Thailand... (you might have a different type of grid then over here)

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 09:14:46 AM by Waterfront »

pyrocasto

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2005, 09:40:49 AM »
I suggest replacing what you need with the RIGHT parts this time. Grid tie inverters usually cost the same as normal+battery bank together anyway. Except with a grid tie when it's down you're down, and you have to be making ALOT of power to even pay the added monthly cost of grid tie equipment.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 09:40:49 AM by pyrocasto »

zyewdall

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2005, 10:36:50 AM »
What kind of charge controller are you using, and what kind of inverters?  I have rarely smoked any of the cheap consumer inverters -- I have a 1kW one that I paid $70 for in my PV system right now.  Grounding the nuetral conductor output, or giving it too high of DC input voltage is about the only thing that kills them.  Or putting them in a dusty environment that burns the cooling fans out.


Grid tied inverters are probably 90% of PV installations nowadays.  Germany, Japan, Spain, and California installed most of the world's capacity last year.  Covering shopping malls and such with PV.  In thailand the grid voltage may not be as stable, and make connecting difficult, but I think you have the same standards there as in europe (220vac, 50Hz, right?), so getting an inverter shouldn't be hard.


If you have the grid available, it's way easier to do a grid tie system -- no battery cost, and cheaper inverters (I'm assuming you are using large sinewave off grid inverters, not 12 volt consumer inverters -- the consumer ones are much cheaper than grid-tie inverters, but aren't intended to be used for homes).  And you don't have to maintain batteries, which alot of people kill pretty quickly.  


But, if the grid goes out, you still loose power (unless you have batteries and an inverter that can do both grid tie and battery backup, like the Outback ones).


I personally dislike the utility company here, so I might go off grid for my big system even though I have the grid at my place.  But from a strictly technological standpoint, if you have grid power, it's sort of silly to not do grid tie.


Wind is a little different issue -- I think only one company makes a batteryless grid tie inverter for wind, so you options are fewer.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 10:36:50 AM by zyewdall »

pyrocasto

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2005, 02:38:09 PM »
"But from a strictly technological standpoint, if you have grid power, it's sort of silly to not do grid tie."


I see only 2 reasons for peole using grid tie personally: Those that are too lazy to learn about thier systems and proper upkeep, and those who are wanting to recieve a check from the power company. Grid tie is not cost worthy unless you are doing BIG systems usually.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 02:38:09 PM by pyrocasto »

wdyasq

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2005, 03:49:01 PM »
'But from a strictly technological standpoint, if you have grid power, it's sort of silly to not do grid tie.'


Is that because you are associated with ' www.cosunflower.com' and are selling grid tie stuff?


I believe is a person is associated with or sells a product they should state so.  This will let the reader KNOW the advocate has a financial intrest in selling such products.  It may not be an unbiased review.


Ron

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 03:49:01 PM by wdyasq »
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Don Cackleberrycreations

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2005, 05:00:29 PM »
Personally my goal is to produce at least twice as much power as I use.

Yes to recieve a check from the local eletric coop would be nice even if it was one for 50 cents. A battery back up would be a must of course but I see no harm in a grid ties system.

   Yeah by nature  most humans are lazy this is where inventions come from .

Lazy people invent things to do the work for them so they dont have to. why use a shovel when a backhoe will dig the hole 20 times faster and you wont break a sweat.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 05:00:29 PM by Don Cackleberrycreations »

John II

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2005, 05:15:15 PM »
A couple of quickie thoughts.


If your state or country does not allow "net metering" then I'd skip Grid tie and purchase a grid tie inverter that also will operate from batteries.


They do make grid tie inverters that operate from batteries as well as functions as a standard inverter.


There are many advertisers of the very latest Grid tie inverters in the "Home Power magazine." Do a google search to find it.


Another thought is to use a battery based inverter system, and let the grid charge it during the times when your Alternative Energy system does not provide the power you need.


But I'm with you..... I have had terrible success with batteries... and they have been one of my largest expenses that usually dies quickly. I probably have not learned the fine art of taking proper care of them. Also I have never owned a quality set of batteries as they are very expensive. Most of my battery sets were already discarded by some large company and deemed "no good" when they decommissioned them.


However if you are generating alternative power from wind or sun... every minute of every hour... if you don't use that power.. it's lost. So storage to grid or storage in general is critical.


John II

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 05:15:15 PM by John II »

chinsettawong

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2005, 09:44:24 PM »
Thanks you guys for all the comments and suggestions.  I am doing this project basically just for fun and at the same time to learn the technology.  Where I live doesn't really have enough wind to generate good power.  Most of the time the windgen just stay idle.  But, what can I say, I'm sort of hooked in this project.  Any like a lot of you, I want to make a bigger and better windgen.  I do not see the investment I put in can ever pay back.  But, just for the fun of it, what the heck.


Wachara C.

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 09:44:24 PM by chinsettawong »

richhagen

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2005, 07:02:12 AM »
While I don't have personal experience with this, I have heard that some inverters (and charge controllers) have trouble with wind power because the rectified output often is not pure DC, but has ripples, and most of the smaller units were actually designed to work with and track power outputs from solar panels which probably have a smoother DC output. The power point tracker on some models depending on the design might not work so well with a more rapidly changing turbine output or an impure DC source.  Make sure that what you buy will work with what you have.


If I were building such a system, I would probably use batteries as a sink anyway, in spite of the added cost, that way I could store power in case of an outage or other problem, and then use the grid as a diversion load when the batteries were full by programing the inverter provided I didn't have a good use for the power locally.  Just a couple of thoughts.  Rich Hagen

« Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 07:02:12 AM by richhagen »
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coldspot

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2005, 02:21:52 PM »
It's been a while, (20 years) but as I recall, Bangkok had 50Hz 120 AC.

But I was MUCH younger back then and this visit to see my Dad was a year or so before I when to school for my Electrical Tech Degree.

I'd use battery bank also.

Just my $.02

Sa-Waa-Dee (just a quess at spelling)(lol)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 02:21:52 PM by coldspot »
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chinsettawong

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2005, 09:01:33 PM »
Sawaddee Krub:


The power in Thailand is actually 220v 50Hz.


Wachara C.

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: December 30, 2005, 09:01:33 PM by chinsettawong »

finnsawyer

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2005, 09:50:37 AM »
Since Michigan now has net metering, if Sun Ball would increase the size of their units at say a cost of $5,000, I would be interested.  Their units currently are 1 meter in diameter.  Putting 7 units together with one motor drive and controller would be 3 meters or about 10 feet, a manageable size.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 09:50:37 AM by finnsawyer »

coldspot

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2005, 10:07:45 AM »
I said it had been awhile, 20 years.

And I was much younger, crazy enough to actually get into ring @ Rose garden for some

Muay Thai action !!! Man that guy, (kid maybe) was tuff! But alas, his knee only went as high as my hip while mine went as high as his face, O- so sorry !!!

 Dad was right, they are GREAT fighters, but he was also wrong, I am also a great fighter with a HUGE reach advantage. Man I wish I had that recorded.


Anyway

Good Day/Night to BANGKOK !!! I hope to return some day!!!  

« Last Edit: December 31, 2005, 10:07:45 AM by coldspot »
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chinsettawong

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Re: Grid tied inverter, anyone?
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2006, 01:02:48 AM »
Glad to hear you had good momory of Thailand.  Let me know when you decide to come back again.


Best regards,


Wachara C.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 01:02:48 AM by chinsettawong »