Author Topic: Need help with stator windings (Read 8870 times)

GianniniJJ · « **on:** May 12, 2015, 05:36:36 PM »

Hello my name is Jared and I am new to this forum. I have been doing research on making my generator and this forum has been the most help. I have been working on making a hydro electric generator by making stator coils on the outside of the pipe. I am requesting assistance with wiring the stators together because when I connected my stators together I only got about one volt, which is want I was getting with only one stator. I have six stators connected in series. They are all counterclockwise and I soldered the end of the first one (the end of the wire) to the inside wire of the next one(the start of the coil) and so on. My original thought was if I wire six coils together then I would read six volts because I was reading one volt per coil. can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong. Did I wire it wrong or are the coils wrapped wrong? How can I fix this?

Thank you for the help,
Jared

joestue · « **Reply #1 on:** May 12, 2015, 08:39:35 PM »

it matters a great deal if the pipe is metal or plastic.

are you making an air core radial machine? like that of a permanent magnet dc motor, but instead of brushes you have a rotating magnet?

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2015, 08:49:54 PM »

Yes I have a rotating magnet inside of a pvc pipe. I have already proved that each one produces a volt but when I connect them together it's only says the six are putting out one volt.

Thanks for the reply hope to hear some more help!

joestue · « **Reply #3 on:** May 12, 2015, 10:11:08 PM »

The magnets have to be in phase for that to work.

If your magnets are say, 1 inch diameter magnetized on opposing sides of the cylinder then it will be more efficient to force them all together to make 1, 6 inch long magnet. however, they will NOT want to stay together and such a construction would be difficult to pull off.. milling a keyway in them and pushing them down a thin stainless or copper pipe would work but that is a lot of work.

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #4 on:** May 12, 2015, 10:31:49 PM »

So I have 10 magnets wrapped around a pipe that goes on the inside of my larger pvc pipe. The larger pipe has the coils wrapped around it. I can't get the coils for some reason to work in series to add the voltage together. Instead I am getting just one volt on each of the three phases. Should and how would I wire them in series correctly? Or should I try to wire them in parrellel?

joestue · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2015, 12:13:22 AM »

I need a photo or drawing of what you're doing.

"They are all counterclockwise and I soldered the end of the first one (the end of the wire) to the inside wire of the next one(the start of the coil) and so on. My original thought was if I wire six coils together then I would read six volts because I was reading one volt per coil."

this sounds to me like something is fundamentally wrong.. like you've got the coils oriented in the wrong axis or something.
Are you building a single phase machine or three?

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2015, 12:28:33 AM »

I am building a three phase ac generator. I wound all of the coils counterclockwise and they are connected as if it was a straight line of wire, if that makes anything easier to think of haha. I think you are right when saying something is wrong with the fundamentals that I'm overlooking. Would the resistance be high or low when reading one phase? I am reading around 1 ohm on each phase.

joestue · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2015, 12:34:55 AM »

you have to alternate the direction of every other coil which is in series.

if you have 6 coils in series, you need 18 coils for a three phase machine.
as it is now i think you should be measuring zero volts, they should all cancel.

electrondady1 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2015, 07:52:08 AM »

you haven't given very much to go on .
is this an established design that your are trying to copy or is this 6 coil/10mag ratio some thing you have made up?
the normal ratio for a 3 phase alternator would be 6 coils to 8 magnets with just two coils in each phase.
if you are trying to solder all six coils together it is single phase and the normal ratio would require 6 magnets..

in single phase every second coil must be reversed.
lets call the start end of a coil A and the end of the coil B
so the coils would go
AB BA AB BA AB BA

the magnets should be mounted on a steel pipe
the coils should have a steel backing behind them
laminates or even mild steel wire wrapped around the out side to act as a flux return path.

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #9 on:** May 13, 2015, 11:21:56 AM »

Ok here's the deal, thank you about the info on the coils. I did not reverse them. This is a plan I kind of threw together and was trying to make it work. I know in the engineering world someone wants to slap me. I have three coils (a b and c) around a three inch pvc pipe. The three coils are evenly spaced around the diameter of the pipe. Once I put that on I tested the coils and they were putting out one volt per phase. Then I continued down till I got to a linear foot to see what the output was. Which is where I messed up because I didn't rotate the coils. I hope this explains a little more.

Now for the magnets, I do not think I am understanding correctly what you mean. I have ten magnets evenly spaced to my inner, moving pipe. So are you saying I should not use that many magnets because it's a waist. I thought as long as the n and s pass the coil it's going to create electricity. I have the magnets right now going ten in a row and then going down the length of the pipe ten ten ten and so on.

Thanks again for the help. All the input is greatly appreciated!

joestue · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2015, 11:50:49 AM »

its possible your meter reads 1 volt but you don't actually have 1 volt of sine wave fundamental frequency, so when you add the coils up in series you get a string of 1 volt pulses that eventually cancel out to zero.

anyhow for a 10 pole system you need 5 coils per phase or a serpentine winding, or something else..
the coil and magnet arrangement most people use here are designed for single layer windings. if you overlap the coils (and use 2 times as many of them) you can get about twice as much copper into the air gap.

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2015, 02:21:50 PM »

So if I switch to four magnets (2 north and 2 south) per ring would that work? I get what you are saying that most people here are using a design where they have all the magnets and coil basically on one axis. I'm trying to make individual three coils and magnets down the pipe. Then I thought you could connect the phases in series to add the voltage together. How would I do that or will it work? Is it as simple as just having to change the magnets to get them all in sync or some crazy stuff?

Thanks again
Jared

electrondady1 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2015, 04:29:49 PM »

i build two phase alternators.

two single phase sets of coils overlapping.

there is a relationship between the width of the magnets the width of the coils
the spaces between the coils the spaces between the magnets
the thickness of the magnets and the thickness of the coils.

can you make a drawing showing what you've got going on?
have you mentioned the dimensions of the mags yet?

are these 10 mags touching each other ? or is there a space between them ?

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2015, 05:38:02 PM »

The magnets that I am using are N50 1.070" (27.2mm) OD x 0.917" (23.3mm) ID x 1.417" (36mm) wide. They are magnetized through the width. Here is a picture of what I have going on. I am just try to get it to put out some sort of current at this point. The gauge magnetic wire I am using is 18 gauge. I wound it 120 time counterclockwise and soldered 6 in series for each phase. All of the help is greatly appreciated thanks for all of the responses!

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2015, 08:51:58 PM »

I don't know if anything has ever been done like this before and I'm not as experienced with alternators as I should be. I'm a avionics electrical tech that works on aircraft generators so I'm running with this with only basic electrical knowledge. The help is greatly appreciated just please bare with me

Mary B · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2015, 01:00:10 AM »

Not an expert on this but I do believe you would be better off with long skinny coils the length of the pipe to take the best advantage of your magnets...

electrondady1 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:09:58 AM »

it looks like you have 80 magnets there . is that correct?

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:56:52 AM »

Yes that is correct

electrondady1 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:57:21 AM »

so you have ten magnetic poles on a circumference
and does each pole line up with the one beneath it.
to create ten very long magnetic poles?
as in nsnsnsnsn or does it alternate as in nsnsnsnsns
nsnsnsnsn snsnsnsnsn

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2015, 10:54:52 AM »

Yes it lines up all the way down the pipe.

electrondady1 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:22:12 PM »

it's pretty exotic layout and has some inherent problems
if it was just an experiment , i would totally rearrange the mags .
using 8 mags per section two mags per pole as in
nn ss nn ss
nn ss nn ss
nn ss nn ss
etc. until you have 10 layers
and then as Mary suggested use three very long coils to get your 3 phase .
but you could build a stator with 4 coils in a series 6 coils overlapping or 8 coils overlapping
those mags need to sit directly on an iron / steel shaft or pipe.
the coils should sit as close as possible to the magnets .
the farther away from the magnet surface the less flux they are exposed to .
could you cast a tubular stator with the coils imbedded?
you would need to wind some steel wire around the outside of such a tubular stator, to pull the magnetic flux out of your mags and through the copper

i would say go back to the drawing board with a proven design but you have have already purchased all those mags .
good luck and keep us informed

electrondady1 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:52:24 PM »

you could use the mags as is
turn 5 or 10
long coils

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2015, 10:53:23 PM »

Ok awesome help! So do you have any pictures of what your talking about with overlapping the coils? Or making a long coil? I don't exactly get that. Do you think I could just put a steal pipe around the outside of the coils or do I actually have to mold something around them? Thanks for all the help
Jared

electrondady1 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2015, 07:55:48 AM »

if your trying to build a hydro generating system. i think you should study what others have done along those lines. find out what works and copy what they have built.

GianniniJJ · « **Reply #24 on:** May 15, 2015, 01:29:17 PM »

Ok thank you for all of the help and advice.
Jared

hiker · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2015, 03:28:07 AM »

http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/radial_air_core_alternator.htm

Mary B · « **Reply #26 on:** May 18, 2015, 05:54:22 PM »

Good find Hiker and what I was trying to say about the coils.

joestue · « **Reply #27 on:** May 18, 2015, 08:07:27 PM »

I would multiply the diameter by 8, or 4, and increase the number of poles by the same.
so it would be nsnsnsnsns... for a 8? inch diameter machine..

or... nnssnnssnnssnnss... for a 4? inch diameter machine(but twice the thickness, because its two magnets deep so to speak)

coils would be wound 2 layer overlapped winding compressed into a tube to get them as close to the magnets as possible.

what's the actual dimentions of those magnets? really hard to tell from the photo.. that tube looks a lot bigger than 1 inch pvc (inside diameter)

electrondady1 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 20, 2015, 08:52:20 AM »

right , long skinny poles covered in long skinny coils will work as an experiment, but by increasing the diameter , and laying the mags out on the edge. you increase the crossing speed . and the frequency goes up.

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Author Topic: Need help with stator windings (Read 8870 times)