Author Topic: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?  (Read 5236 times)

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rossw

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MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« on: August 18, 2009, 05:58:38 AM »
The time has finally come where I have more instantaneous PV capacity than my average load. This was by design - I hope to actually put enough into the battery to not have to run the genset at night or early in the morning. (Time will tell if my battery is just too old and too tired or not, after years of excessively deep cycling).


I'd like to run MPPT so I can just series up my arrays and use high(er) voltage rather than more copper.


But the question now becomes - what charge controller do I use?!


The "reputable" brands seem to be morningstar, xantrex and outback. I'm on the other side of the world, and shipping a failed unit back for repairs is going to be impractical. Whatever I get needs to work out of the box and stay working!


I have a 48V nominal system and just under 2KW of PV, so we could be talking up to 40A of output current. Input will depend on voltage, but lets just work on the current configs of the arrays as "nominal" 48V, which means up to about 80V open circuit.


Without prejudice, what are the general experiences of people with these brands? What have you got (or had), and would you get it again? Advantages of one over another, design flaws/limitations etc all appreciated!


I am not madly in love with the designs that need a fan to keep them cool (more things to fail), and ones that are specified to operate at full load, indefinately at elevated temperatures give me more confidence in their build and engineering quality.


If you've got something to say but are scared you'll get sued for saying it, come see me in IRC, or shoot me an email to aussiere at albury dot net dot au.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 05:58:38 AM by (unknown) »

Tritium

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 10:26:13 AM »
I have an Outback MX60 but it has been superseded by the FX60 now. They seem to be pretty bulletproof but require proprietary interfaces to get the data to your PC. I also use MorningStar Sunsaver controllers but they are not MPPT.


Thurmond

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 10:26:13 AM by Tritium »

dbcollen

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2009, 10:35:01 AM »
I have a Outback MX60 and a Flexmax80, I had to replace the control board in the Mx60, Outback has always been great with support, They will ship replacement parts, and a DVD video showing the install. All the internals are modular and field servicable. If I had to chose between the two I would get another FM80, the fan almost never runs, and it seems to have a better MPPT algorithm than the older MX60. I have 2.6Kw @ 72V nominal feeding the FM80, and 2kw @ 48v nominal feeding the MX60. 1200AH 20hr @48v battery bank.


Dustin

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 10:35:01 AM by dbcollen »

Lowhead

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 10:48:33 AM »
I'm wiring up my MX60 right now.  I might be wrong but I think if you follow the NEC then you need to buy fatter wire and bigger breakers for the FX80 because it can put out more current than the FX60 even if your array size would limit it.  

Andy
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 10:48:33 AM by Lowhead »

OuttaSight

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2009, 11:25:38 AM »
Hiya.



The Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT-15 controller they sell now isn't powerful enough for your requirement.  It's a 15A controller that does 12/24V batteries.



They've got a 45/60A Tristar MPPT controller in the pipeline but the shipping date keeps slipping. It was September '09 and now is November '09 (I've been watching their web site as I'm interested in it).



When they get it out the door, I'll probably get one to replace one of my MPPT-15 Morningstar controllers, as I've already overloaded it with about 600Wp of PV (it's only rated to 400W) and it's capped the battery current at 15A.



Someone I know has been using the Outback MX-60 MPPT for years without problem. See here:

www.mrsharkey.com



Personally, I like the Morningstar design as it's fanless and seems bulletproof.  I've had my system running about a year and at first was using a 12V bank but kept buying more and more panels so hit the 15A limiter on the controller.  Then I reconfigured for 24V and that allowed me to buy a pair of Sharp ND-170 panels that work at 42.6V in series on a second controller (as the MPPT voltage is too different) and connect all my other 17V panels in series pairs for 35V on the original controller.  This cut down the need to upgrade the wiring as the volt drops are much less of a problem at 35/42V.



As I said, one of my Morningstars still gets quite a lot of abuse from too much PV input but it caps the battery current at 15A so it doesn't overheat or blow up and just sits there for like 4-5 hours a day pegged at 15A.  Even so, they don't need a fan as they don't get hot at all - just warm to the touch and the mounting plate is also the heat sink.  Just don't mount them in a sunny place!  I mounted mine indoors on a north facing wall.



The Tristar MPPT will be a bit more flexible than the 15A one as it can go up to 150Voc (whereas my one is limited to 75Voc). My controller didn't like it when I connected my amorphous panels in triplets as they can put out up to 26Voc even though their Vmp is only 17.5V.  With my cheapskate approach to DC wiring, it's just as well that I'm only dealing with relatively low voltages (35-58V).



I also like the way that with the serial interface on the Morningstars, you can hook them up to a laptop and fully program all the charging set points and timers to suit any type / size of lead battery bank.  The new Tristar MPPT-60 will also have an Ethernet port on it so it can be plugged into a LAN for remote monitoring.  You could easily make that a wireless LAN as the transmitters usually work on 12V DC so you can just power it from the solar batteries with a regulator instead of the mains cube they usually come with.



So at 48V nominal, you can go up to about 3kWp on a single Tristar and they can be run in parallel to make a modular system as big as you like.  I think they will communicate with each other by their serial ports but even if they don't you can run them in parallel.  The MPPT-15's don't communicate with each other but they charge my bank just fine.  All I did was make sure that they both had the same set points and timers programmed and disabled EQ charging on one of them so that only one charger decides when to EQ the bank.  They do it on low discharge events or monthly (whichever happens first) so I didn't want them to independently decide to do calendar EQs on different days.  If my bank was too big this might be a problem as one controller might not be enough to "boil" the bank.  I guess that's where the communication between controllers comes in.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 11:25:38 AM by OuttaSight »

SteveCH

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2009, 01:22:00 PM »
About the only contribution I can make is that I've been using a couple of MX60s for almost three years. So far, no issues and I do like them. [I upgraded from a very old, early 80s, controller that is quite crude in comparison, as one would expect]. I believe the FX stuff came out shortly after I bought my MX60s, but I'd never heard of them at the time in any case.


If I were buying today, I'd go for the FX to get the upgraded product unless used MX60s were available and in good shape.


I have some Midnite Solar products [though not controller] and they are top quality and the cost is often less than competing products. Sometimes a lot less. Very good stuff.


The MX60s were easy to set up, set, and use. The manual is long and just about anything you need to know is in there. No doubt the same with other OutBack products, though the only thing of theirs I have is the MX60.


For what it's worth.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 01:22:00 PM by SteveCH »

wpowokal

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2009, 10:39:45 PM »
Ross my installer (Solarwest) for my new system dropped in this morning he is singing the praise of the outback, he installs them on wind turbines. Cost effective at the moment as well, he will be installing one on the solar system next week.


My best site for a large wind turbine is about 250m away from the new system and his recommendation was generate at around 110V and place an Outback MPPT at the batteries (48v).


allan down under

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 10:39:45 PM by wpowokal »
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rossw

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 04:52:29 PM »
Thanks everyone. I weighed them all up, considered my options and just called and placed an order for a FM80 with Mate.


Prices in Australia are STUPID - we're being screwed by someones greedy ways. There's just no justification for a 100% markup!


In the end, I paid $540 for the FlexMax 80, and another $233 for the Mate (USD). Best I found in Australia was over $1400 AUD for the FM80 alone.


Will let you all know how I get on!

« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 04:52:29 PM by rossw »

DamonHD

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 12:27:05 AM »
Good.


In the UK we normally end up paying the same prices as the US ... except swapping the $ sign for a £.


I think the difference pays for our free healthcare.  B^>


Rgds


Damon


PS.  Although I'm taking a break from work for a couple of months to do renewables stuff, as soon as I have some cash coming in again I think I will be re-reading this thread and upgrading my little off-grid controller to MPPT since it will then be running my main server entirely I hope, and thus milking more out of it especially in poor light conditions will be important.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 12:27:05 AM by DamonHD »
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rossw

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2009, 03:20:16 AM »
The driving force behind this is that the wind+solar "controller" I have simply disconnects the solar when the batteries get above a preset voltage, and divert the turbine to a dumpload when the batteries are above a (close but slightly different) voltage.


Being a cheep PoS, its not adjustable and is too high - and then when the batteres get to the cutoff voltage, it just sits there every 5-10 seconds switching the panels in and out. That means my batteries go from charging to discharging, and will (doubtless) be getting neither properly charged, nor properly looked after!


If I reconfigure my panels for higher voltage and use the FM80, I should see better overall efficiency, and proper charging of the batteries. It should stop the system isolating the solar since its voltage should never climb that high either.


I've calculated that by reconfiguring my panels for 120V nominal operation, I can get slightly more outout than I currently see, while releasing two of the older 80W panels which I can re-deploy at the dam for water pumping.


(the FM80 is cheaper than 2 x 80W panels too)

« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 03:20:16 AM by rossw »

wellusee

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2009, 11:25:45 AM »


Hi all,

I am about to wire up my new Morningstar TS60 to my 2 heavy duty 12 Volt tractor batteries that's two in series to give 24Volts . I need to set it for Diversion Charge Control.

Now these DIP switches are confusing.

 Dip switch 1 ON to get the unit working.

 Dip switch 2 ON to set for 24 Volt systems.

 Dip switch 3 OFF that's for 48 Volt systems.

 Dip switch 4?

 Dip switch 5?

 Dip switch 6?

 Dip switch 7 ON for Diversion Control,

 Dipswitch 8 OFF (I can use the pushbutton) it depends on settings for 4, 5, 6

So if anyone can advise or help with 4, 5, 6 it would be a great help indeed.

Wellusee.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 11:25:45 AM by wellusee »

timab

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 10:28:12 PM »
Hello all - I have been using a 25amp MPPT charge controller from BlueSky

called the



Solar Boost 2000e
. They have been working great although be sure not to

mount them where they have direct sun exposure. The casing is black and they

will get hot! Other than that these have turned out to be an affordable mppt

controller for several of my smaller installs. They are made in the USA but they

have several international distributors http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com/distributors/

« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 10:28:12 PM by timab »

ghurd

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 07:27:25 AM »
The problem with the lower cost BlueSky versions is the nominal output is also the nominal input.

The front surface of most BlueSky units is the heat sink.

I have used the SB2512iX in several systems and was pleased with the results.  Using one at the shop now, where the 170W PV to battery run is only about 12', and the improvement in winter was easy to see.

I expect the new MorningStar's will take a bite out of BlueSky's and Outback's sales.

G-
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 07:27:25 AM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

DamonHD

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2009, 01:56:37 PM »
Hi,


Just for the record, with a little prodding from ghurd, and a good price from him to bargain with, I ordered the Morningstar 15V 12V/24V MPPT charger for £190 (including VAT and delivery) at the end of last week.


I intend to replace my 6A Morningstar SHS and one no-name (possibly TopRay) controller to squeeze a little more out of my existing panels in winter.


Thanks again for the "GHurd Effect" as discussed elsewhere.


So, joint Nobel RE Prize for GHurd and Flux then, with Al Gore keeping quiet on the sidelines?  B^>


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 01:56:37 PM by DamonHD »
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TomW

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2009, 07:40:06 PM »
Yeah, Glen is a sharp guy. And not just the point on top of his head, either!


Gotten loads of direct assistance from him.


Flux is, well, flux. Great contributor but I don't think he likes much of the spotlight.


It is good to give credit where credit is due.


So many here give selflessly all the time so I would to say thanks to them all. Hate to miss anyone so "all" covers that.


Tom

« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 07:40:06 PM by TomW »

DamonHD

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Re: MPPT charge controller - which one to get?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2009, 12:38:42 PM »
Halfway done...  I had already moved my main solar menagerie (~84Wp) to the MPPT controller, and tomorrow morning I move over 3 amorphous panels (~36Wp) once I've double-checked all the polarities etc having finished the rewiring tonight.


Having everything on one controller is probably more sensible, but I shall be keeping the old controllers as backups in case of disaster...


Rgds


Damon

« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 12:38:42 PM by DamonHD »
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