Author Topic: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT  (Read 2929 times)

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marvin

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Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« on: November 28, 2006, 08:46:28 PM »
I searched this site for reference of Sidewinder and didn't find it, sorry if it's already been mentioned. Interesting way of overcoming upwind problem of VAWT. Looks a bit Medieval, and quite noisy with plans for roofmount. Scary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZhHCyuEEDk&mode=related&search=

Hope the link works.

marv
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:46:28 PM by (unknown) »

dudevato

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2006, 02:25:34 PM »
I'd think you'd go crazy listening to that for more than a minute or two, not to mention your neighbors firebombing your home.  What about a shield to keep the wind from hitting the side of the blades that are doing no work?  I'd think most locations get the wind from pretty much the same direction most of the time.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 02:25:34 PM by dudevato »

vawtman

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2006, 03:36:23 PM »
Hello Marvin

 I didnt know vawts had an upwind problem.


 Looks like darn near a 30mph wind judging by the trees.I dont know why this design pops up from time to time but to be honest in my opinion no good.It probably takes more energy to open the blades than it could produce at such low rpms with limited torque.


 At least it couldnt spin fast enough in a gale to cause vibration to the structure.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 03:36:23 PM by vawtman »

windstuffnow

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2006, 04:19:33 PM »
  Quite the engineering feat for such a gigantic piece of junk.   I'd bet the overall efficiency is extreemly poor... even lower than the Savonius.   It looks to me most of the available energy is used up opening the clam shells.  


  Can't say I'm impressed with it... can you tell?


.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 04:19:33 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

DanB

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2006, 04:26:39 PM »
It's amazing how much time and money folks will put into such badly researched ideas.  Kinda neat - but not very useful and probably not very pleasant to be around.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 04:26:39 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

badmoonryzn

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2006, 05:07:25 PM »
Wow, what a deal! It looks like a merry-go-round with those insect eating venus fly traps on the edge. I can't figure why any one would build something like that. What is wrong with the design of our air speed indicators? Just make a big one of those anometers.


bad

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 05:07:25 PM by badmoonryzn »

vawtman

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2006, 05:20:01 PM »
Badmoon that wouldnt even qualify has an aneometer
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 05:20:01 PM by vawtman »

bj

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2006, 07:42:07 PM »


   Definitely different thinking.

   But, I think a mechanical nightmare.  Just the way those blade pop

up and down has to be wearing something out, fast.

   But unique.

   bj

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 07:42:07 PM by bj »
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj
Lamont AB Can.

windstuffnow

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2006, 08:20:03 PM »
  I agree Dan !   I must admit though, I'm just as guilty at building projects that end up being just another "stupid" idea.   One nice thing about building the "stupid ideas" is the fact their never really complete failures... the project might have failed but you usually learn something from crafting it.  You usually end up with some nicely made parts that will fit on another project as well... ok it's funny but its true...


.


   

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:20:03 PM by windstuffnow »
Windstuff Ed

marvin

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2006, 08:23:35 PM »
I had never seen the design before, just thought it was unique, guess it's a rehash.


vawtman - I get up wind and down wind confused, you know what I meant.


marv

« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:23:35 PM by marvin »

Capt Slog

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 02:30:45 AM »
Hells bells, what a growth!


Best idea would be to remove all the sails and add a donkey.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 02:30:45 AM by Capt Slog »

thefinis

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 05:46:07 AM »
http://www.fuellessflight.com/windturbine.htm


Did not think this one was very good/efficient but better than that monster.


Finis

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 05:46:07 AM by thefinis »

whatsnext

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 08:51:42 AM »
Same dope. Good old Robert Hunt and his total lack of understanding of the concept of energy conservation. I can't imagine anyone foolish enough to give this guy five cents let alone enough to keep posting vids of these idiotic machines to the web.

John....
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 08:51:42 AM by whatsnext »

Titantornado

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2006, 03:28:20 PM »
LOL!  He makes quite a claim though:


"A full engineering report that shows the efficiency of the new turbine at forty-four percent (44%) compared to an efficiency of twenty-one percent (21%) for a conventional horizontal axis wind turbine"

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 03:28:20 PM by Titantornado »

vawtman

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2006, 05:15:11 PM »
Are you sure theres not a tinsy - before the 44 Rod. That could be conceivable maybeLOL

 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 05:15:11 PM by vawtman »

badmoonryzn

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2006, 07:29:10 PM »
Oh my, he is as full of crap as a Christmas goose, 44% my eye! Maybe .44%??? Must be a typo. Just watching the pulsing rotation of that donkey cart, hell donkeys could do a better job maintaining a steady speed. Can you imagine the top speed fluctuation of a unit like that geared up? It would be jumping around 500 RPM or more. I still think just scale up a standard anometer at least the RPM's would be a bit more stable. I'm unclear on where the unit is to be installed. Sitting on the ground would be screwy with all of the ground effects on the wind causing the directions to change, maybe up in the air 80 feet, but then the tower would have to be a monster to support all of the weird forces caused by the flapping. The thing would beat it's self to death in short order. Even if you used some kind of dampening on the wings it wouldn't be long before it broke somewhere. Looking at it I figure the stops that keep the clamshells from flying open over center will be the first things to break off. Damn, I wish I had the money spent on that thing to build something worthwhile. It is cute, but so are most woman and look what ya get in the end, something that just works your ass to the bone maintaining it. LOL I don't know, and I'm not sure I want to!


Moon

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 07:29:10 PM by badmoonryzn »

badmoonryzn

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2006, 09:29:36 PM »
Check out some of theother mills on this site:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znfta4w52NM&mode=related&search=


The are interesting. Look at the speed difference in the VAWT vs the HAWT nice to compare as they are next to each other and close to the same size. WhaCha Think?


Badmoon

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 09:29:36 PM by badmoonryzn »

thefinis

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2006, 03:44:32 AM »
Don't know what is happening with those turbines. It looks like the hawt may not have reached cutin wind speed or may be braked. IF loaded with the same tsr and diameter they should spin at about the same rpms.


One of the things I seem to be seeing is that the vawts will start up better in lower wind speeds. Some of this may be that under low wind conditions the hawts don't turn and face the wind very well. They may miss the gusts needed to reach cutin on light turblent breezes. It will be interesting to see how things shake out over time. I am seeing several dual installations especially with the Aussies. The comments I have read seem to be that hawts tend to make more power than the vawts in higher wind months with the vawts doing better than the hawts in the low wind months. Low winds means low power production so for low winds it is more about number of hours producing than about amount being produced. Off grid in low winds means low battery banks and any extra production can mean the difference between lights and no lights, computer or no computer etc.


Finis

« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 03:44:32 AM by thefinis »

badmoonryzn

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2006, 09:55:46 AM »
I agree with you. It seems there may be an advantage by having one of each to have power in low and high wind situations. I have looked all over the net, but I can not find any info about data covering the output of both units of similar displacement producing power in X and Y winds. It would be nice to see a comparison of units that produce the same power on paper. Oh Well, I am going to build two little one, but I am concerned about having the same displacement of surface area since they are of different designs. I have several 100 watt gens and I will hook them up to a hawt and vawt of the same size displacement and see what they will do and I will post the results just for fun. I did see a design of a giant anometer on that site too, I wonder how well it did?


CYA

Badmoon

« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 09:55:46 AM by badmoonryzn »

asheets

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2006, 10:15:36 AM »
I would disregard anything that attempts to us "irregardless" as a word.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:15:36 AM by asheets »

lohearth

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2006, 12:11:50 PM »


  Some one gave me a good idea that I'm trying to engineer. Unfortunatly so many good ideas has led me to the 6th revision of my scale model.

  As it stands now, I'm working on a geodesic dome power station with a vawt above. the vawt will have pivoting deflectors to add furling capabilities. Attached to the top of the frame work of the vawt will be a tower with a hawt.

  Needles to say, this is going to take alot of time and designing to work out but it will give me the most flexability with the smallest foot print.

  There are alot of ideas and designs on this board and it takes alot of time to research them all. Each system has its pros and cons so don't stop trying to find what works best for you. The only advise I have for you is to keep your plans flexible because so many things change fast here.

  I started about 20 years ago looking into this when I saw an 8ft prop hooked to a large pully which turned 2 alternators. The fields were hooked to a centrifuge switch to open the power at cut in.

 Since then I have revised alot of thinking and have learned alot more. Just keep having fun and god luck


                               Lohearth  

« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 12:11:50 PM by lohearth »

Titantornado

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2006, 10:43:14 PM »
Yea, I'd say it's either braked or spinning near the same frame rate of the video camera, making it appear as if it's turning slow.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:43:14 PM by Titantornado »

badmoonryzn

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2006, 01:42:40 PM »
Something is not regardless? What in the heck is that? My college Business English teacher said she would flunk any person using that word instantly and boot them out of the class. I looked up the offending word, irregardless, in several dictionaries to see if they would list double negatives. Most listed irregardless as an incorrect use of the word regardless, a double negative, the uneducated use of regardless. I think this form of the word regardless has been around for a century and was passed on through use. It is now a somewhat excepted use of the word because of how often it is used. It makes people familiar with the correct usage of the word cringe. Yea! LOL, What does that mean anyway? Lets see.


Hmm, Merriam Webster thoughts:


Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less

Pronunciation: "ir-i-'gärd-l&s

Function: adverb

Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless

nonstandard

usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American (another way the French put it to us) speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.


.

American Heritage Dictionary:


Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.


WordNet


:irregardless

adverb

irregardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously.  Well, I can see why it invokes such passionate responses! CYA badmoon

« Last Edit: December 03, 2006, 01:42:40 PM by badmoonryzn »

spinner

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2006, 12:18:18 PM »
id be really happy if I made one that worked as well as Windsides does!


spinner

« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 12:18:18 PM by spinner »

naikrovek

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Re: Anyone seen SideWinder VAWT
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2007, 11:44:32 PM »
you guys are awfully quick to criticize someone else's ideas.  


Perhaps some ideas aren't worth much.  There is no such thing, however, as an idea that is entirely and completely rubbish.  


"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."  


It is a very bad idea to shoot down someone's idea, no matter how foolish it appears on the surface.  If, rather, you were to embrace the idea and learn about it, you will soon find that you learned something or met a realization that you would not have otherwise.  A better tactic would be to discuss the merits and downfalls of such a design.  Perhaps deep inside there is a good idea (such as obtaining higher efficiency from wind using an active drag-elimination system) rather than tossing the idea out as a whole.


The term "box" (as in "think outside the box") comes from people who dismiss others' ideas en masse.  Those people sit squarely inside a box, figuratively speaking, where ideas worthy of attention exist within the box, and unorthodox or unusual ideas exist outside the box.  Usually, the box is of their own construction, because, by God, that's how its done and anyone who does it any other way is a damned fool.  In short, evolutionary ideas exist within the box, and revolutionary ideas exist outside the box.


In reality, (yes, those inside the box have walled themselves away from reality,) one must be outside "the box," and be open to other's input no matter how foolish it appears at first glance, in order to progress one's own ideas, one's own knowledge, one's own expertise, and one's own experience, as well as to give the new idea the scrutiny it deserves.  


One must be willing to adopt the thoughts of others for the purposes of learning, and in this case, building a better VAWT, even if those thoughts seem ridiculous and foolish at first glance.  At the heart of those thoughts is often a brilliant idea, executed without the experience that you guys have that could make it a really brilliant final design.


So take the idea (active drag-elimination) and make something worthwhile out of it.  Even if it turns out the idea is ultimately unusable, you will have learned lessons that you would not have learned by simply dismissing the idea entirely and remaining within the box.


So think about new ideas with the same fervor you give your own ideas, even if at first glance the idea seems without merit.  It may be a brilliant idea waiting to be discovered.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:44:32 PM by naikrovek »