Author Topic: Charger controller and 17' axial alternator (Read 3333 times)

(unknown) · « **on:** July 29, 2009, 06:03:55 AM »

I am looking to you folks for advice before I take the plunge. I've made up my mind to buy a Xantrex XW4548 inverter/charger and want to make sure I'm on the right path. I've built the 17' axial flux generator and bought a tower, I am currently waiting to get the electronics bought and installed prior to raising this machine and tower. I only have one set of 48v 935amp/hr battery bank but not sure this is enough?

So, my questions are:

I have this 17' machine and hope to make 2.0 to 3.0kw average, we are in a moderate wind area in West Texas, no trees. Will this battery bank be acceptable with this charger controller setup? Will this battery bank suffice until I can save again for a second set? And is this inverter large enough or too small for this alternator? I used the Otherpower(dot)com " tech information " for my build.

And, if this inverter is too small, what inverter is recommended? The XW6048?

Thank you in advance.

Mike

Rob Beckers · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2009, 06:13:39 AM »

Hi Watt,

The XW4548 doesn't do any charging from wind sources, it's an inverter (it won't do any solar charging either for that matter). Charging from a wind gennie is done directly from the turbine, via a rectifier, into the batteries. A diversion controller with diversion load (Xantrex or other brand) is then used to keep the state-of-charge of the batteries under control so they do not get overcharged.

-RoB-

(unknown) · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2009, 09:10:43 AM »

Thank you Rob.

I was thinking it would charge the battery bank by way of generator or even shore power until I can raise my tower. Am I wrong thinking it will keep the battery in check for this purpose?

Flux · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:11:24 AM »

Yes the inverter/charger will charge your batteries from grid power. It will also do so from a standby generator but maybe not so effectively.

As Rob said it will not do any charging from the turbine or solar. That is the impression I got as well that you were hoping to use it as a sort of charge controller.

It will look after the batteries until you get your turbine running but you will need an additional charge controller for normal charging.

Flux

dlenox · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2009, 02:46:04 PM »

Mike,

Would you care to share with us the details of your 17'er/battery/tower info/etc? Are you on or off grid?

I am curently using mine with Xantrex XW-6048 inverter, recently added solar tracker and XW-SCC solar charger. The 4548 is pretty much the same except that it has 4.5kw capacity rather than 6.0kw.

An average of 2-3kw may be a bit optomistic, but a lot depends on how much wind you get on your site as well as the quality of the wind.

Battery bank seems like a reasonable start.

Dan Lenox

(unknown) · « **Reply #5 on:** July 29, 2009, 06:59:17 PM »

Thanks everyone for replies.

Yes, I will be happy to share details from here on out. I have already built the alternator and have no pictures but will take pictures and show tower when it arrives.

I was hoping to grid tie, we are on an electric co-op which in Texas is not required to buy or compensate for electricity I generate. I have reached an agreement with them but, with just this one alternator and my electricity requirements I don't believe this will be economical until a second alternator is built.

Yes, I'm busted. I failed to read the fine print on the inverter. I thought the solar charge controller was included and usable for controlling the alternator. I also failed to realize the distribution center is extra. In my defense, I really wanted the inverter/charger to sustain the new battery I purchased until, as mentioned, tower could be raised. I will purchase these items with it if required but wonder if the outback system would be more suited? With some c60's or the like. I am wanting a split phase system, one less headache, for electric heat/wasting additional power. Sounds to me like the 3500 watt outback would suffice and I can piggy back as I add alternators to get the split phase.

I only have two acres at the moment and thought I better build a couple of 17's instead of a bunch of 10's. If this tower can be built as estimated, It will be free standing. Crossing fingers. I already have a 5ft by 6ft hole 12 foot deep for the tower. Half of this hole has been cemented with hooks and re-bar installed. the last 12 inches is supposed to have some sort of pad or ?. Once the tower is set and cement poured I'll be happy. Just hope it holds? Any thoughts. I'll have to wait to give particulars on the tower materials, I can't remember exactly but seems to have 3 legs with 4.5inch schedule 80 pipe but really can't remember anything else. I will rent a crane to install alternator. bummer. Just can't afford a tilt up or scope up. Money is tight.

As some of you might have seen, I've been lurking and reading this site for a while. I really respect this board. Thank you.

(unknown) · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2009, 07:05:00 PM »

Thank you for your reply.

I failed to realize the charge controller for the power distribution block was extra but available. Will the controller added as an option work with a alternator? I can easily add a c60 if it will be big enough?

Thanks again, I get the feeling I may be overshooting a bit. I believe I may investigate the outback brand.

Thanks again.

wdyasq · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2009, 08:30:32 PM »

Mike,

Where in Texas are you? There are many locations that have good wind, an elctrical co-op and where 2 acres can still be purchased.

You may find several here that can help and/or would like ot build a 'batch' of machines lowering cost for all.

Ron

(unknown) · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2009, 10:06:34 PM »

Hello, sorry about that.

I live about 20 miles northwest of San Angelo Texas. North of a town called Water Valley thanks. These blades kicked my rear so I'd be very interested in having a set built. Also, if the alternator was properly built I'd be interested in another as well.

Mike

dlenox · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2009, 06:52:57 AM »

Mike,

First of all the Xantrex distriution center is optional, but with that said you still need some sort of AC and DC distribution. I cheaped out and used a DC250, but in hindsight wished that I went with the Xantrex panel to ease installation.

If grid tied then the inverter can be used to keep batteries charged. You did not mention the type of batteries that you are using in your battery bank, but AGM's do not need equilization, and one less thing to worry about.

I am using a free-standing tower (HD70) made by AN Wireless. Their foundation required about a 9' x 9' x 7' deep hole, filled with rebar and a short section of the tower actually was set into the concrete as well. At top of tower I built davit crane so that I can be self-reliant once the tower was erected. The cost of the tower was actually pretty reasonable.

You mentioned that the tower you are building is free-standing, however you stated that the material is 4.5" sched 80 pipe in a 3-legged configuration. That sounds very heavy duty! Are you putting in step bolts and steel life-line so that you can climb afterwords - cranes get very expensive ~$2000/day!

You also did not referr to a diversion controller and dump load, which you will need to use with your turbine. I am using a Tri-Star TS60, the Xantrex C40 just is not responsive enough.

Dan

(unknown) · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2009, 01:50:03 PM »

Dlenox

I know nothing is permanent but I have a customer who owns a couple of cranes and runs a few crews. I've been working on his equipment for sometime in barter for this project as well as future issues.

The Ts60 looks fine and I have purchased since you recommend But wonder if I should buy the display?

What is the final cemented hole size for your build? I thought 9x9x7 would require 18 yards of concrete. You mentioned 12 yards so was your cemented hole have the 7 foot square measurement?

wlcoldiron · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:28:00 PM »

Watt

Which coop serves you. Some are ok others are not. Would like to hear from you. wlcoldiron55@yahoo.com Thanks Weldon

dlenox · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2009, 06:57:56 PM »

Mike,

The foundation that I built is like an inverter 'T'.

The bottom is 3'high x 9' square, the next layer up is 4' high and 6' square.

Then you back fill in over the pier, so resultant was about 12 yds of concrete. Plus like I said it is full of rebar as well as a section of the tower is embedded withing the foundation.

Forgot to answer one of your questions: yes a generator input into the XW can also be used to have inverter charge batteries. This can work without having to connect to grid. I believe that you have to be careful of the wiring to the generator, but use the Xantrex diagrams and if in doubt call tech support.

BTW: I have developed software for monitoring/logging of XW systems, the supplied Xantrex software is pretty inadequate.

The display for the TS60 is nice (I have one) but it is not really needed, as you are using it simply for diversion controller.

Dan

(unknown) · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2009, 08:59:37 PM »

wlcoldiron

I am serviced by Concho Valley Electric Coop. Thanks

wlcoldiron · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2009, 04:28:36 PM »

Mike

I live in south texas.I have endured 15 years of disappointment from my coop. What has concho offered to you for an interconnection agreement? I hope you fare better than I have. You may not be aware of federal laws that you have access to that may help you get a agreement that you can live with. What is your annual consumption? Thanks Weldon

(unknown) · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2009, 07:08:55 PM »

Weldon

Nothing is in stone, but I was told I could be compensated at a rate they pay for electric wholesale? Unfortunately, I will have to have my system installed and ready for connection and inspection by their engineer just to get started with the paper work.

What has your provider done for you?

wlcoldiron · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2009, 07:21:51 PM »

mike

My problem is I can' use my power first and sell the excess if I have any. If they place two meters in your system then you will be selling all the power you produce to them at their wholesale cost. Your cost for your consumption at their retail price. Thats what I have been fighting against. If I have power avail from my wind turbine I should be able to use that power first before I purchase power from the coop. fIf theybuy all your power at their wholesale price you are paying the coop $ .05 cents a kwh to use your own power. Weldon

(unknown) · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2009, 01:23:22 AM »

Weldon

I understand your frustrations but I can only view my ability to sell the 6 cents to the coop otherwise I'd be heating water or air. We suck down 2000kw a month no problem. I also use a fair bit more than that in the shop. I would like to be able to produce enough to cover the shops uses first then go on to the house but I'd need a bunch of batteries and alternators. One day, but I gotta start somewhere.

My coop has me by the family jewels. If I don't like what they allow, I can generate my own or suffer. We paid .14 per/kw last year even before the price went so high for fuel reasons. I just don't want to spend another 5k a year for electricity to run lights and simple electrics in the shop.

wlcoldiron · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2009, 07:41:13 AM »

Mike

My good ol coop is about like yours. They violated the state law. the state failed twice to enforce the law.I paid the commerical insurance for three years. I received a lightning strike because the coop wouldn't update their lightning arrestor protection near the generator. There's more. Can't ruin this forum with the details.I'm going to Fredricksburg at the end of Sept. If you go maybe I'll see you there. I go every year. I hate the coop so bad I built a windmill to make compressed air so I wouldn't use electricity for air tools. When I get done I'll be able to have water in a cistern the same way. Weldon

(unknown) · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2009, 12:13:34 PM »

I'd really like to hear the details, abkimble@wcc.net . Also, what is in Fredricksburg in Sept.?

DanB · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2009, 10:31:39 AM »

I think your battery bank sounds fine.

With regard to the inverter, it depends how much power you need I suppose.

2-3kW on 'average' is definitely optimistic, the machine will do that in higher winds but on a moderate wind site I would expect much less and how much really depends very much on 'average' wind speed. I expect you might realize anywhere from 200-500 kWh/month on a 'moderate' site.

I think the morningstar ts60 would be a good choice for regulation, along with an appropriate dump load. There will be times when you need a bit more than a 60 amp controller. If your inverter is like mine, and has Aux relays - you could use those to turn on an other dump load during the times when the TS60 cant handle it all.

(unknown) · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2009, 03:05:46 PM »

Dan

Thank you for your reply. I believe the average wind speed in this area for summer time is only 13 to 16 mph? For all other seasons the wind speed is better but spring seems to be the overall best. I have a weather station but it is only at 20' so not very accurate. I do have all the information for the site but it's packed away as I did the research a year ago or so.

By the way, as if no one else has said so, I've really enjoyed your book. "Homebrew wind power" Rocks.

Mike

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Author Topic: Charger controller and 17' axial alternator (Read 3333 times)

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