Author Topic: Generator  (Read 1026 times)

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chainsaw

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Generator
« on: September 17, 2007, 10:21:20 PM »
I have acquired a surplus DOT message board with a one cyclinder diesel engine. I am changing out the 12v alternator for a 24v unit in order to charge my 24v solar battery bank during bad weather. I use an Outback inverter and mate so I have remote generator start-stop capability based on battery voltage. It would be fairly simple to have a relay to engage the starter, but what would I need to do in order to disengage the starter after engine start or also disengage it if the engine didn't start after a reasonable time. The low oil pressure fuel solenoid could be used for shutdown. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 10:21:20 PM by (unknown) »

wdyasq

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Re: Generator
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 05:44:29 PM »
Random thoughts - oil pressure switch could 'disengage' starter. Fuel shutoff could be triggered by high voltage triggering solenoid. Allow only a set time for engine to start - it really sounds as it may be time for a simple 'chip' controller - PICAXE, PIC or similar.


Ron

« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 05:44:29 PM by (unknown) »
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Volvo farmer

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Re: Generator
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 07:25:42 PM »
Here's how I did it on my Onan LP generator, don't know how it would work with diesel.


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/10/1/02437/5303

« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 07:25:42 PM by (unknown) »
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bob g

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Re: Generator
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 11:38:44 PM »
i am in the microcontroller camp on this one,, i am sure there are commercial offerings to do what you want as well,, for a price.


i have developed for my own use a controller that is a master/slave type of unit

where the master scans several inputs, such as temp, battery condition, cooling, refrigeration, and heavy AC generation, etc.


the slaves do other functions, one of which is the autostart and shutdown of a diesel engine.

it controls, glowplug cycle, fuel shutdown solenoid, starter, high and low idle solenoid etc.


it would seem you already have the master (your inverter) that can send out a logic request to start,, so all you need is to make up a slave microcontroller to do the actual start/stop of the engine.


there are several microcontrollers out there,, i started with the parallax bs2

and find it to be able to do all i ask of it.


bob g

« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 11:38:44 PM by (unknown) »
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chainsaw

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Re: Generator
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 05:51:47 AM »
I am thankful for all the knowledgeable people on this forum who take the time to pen responses to those of us who are still on the learning curve.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 05:51:47 AM by (unknown) »

oztules

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Re: Generator
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 07:40:21 AM »
Of course you could go low tech and just use 2 relays a 12v fuel solenoid and a diode if the outback provides an output voltage to drive a relay on for the duration of the gen time on.


If thats the case, and your oil sender does not get up to pressure until the thing actually starts running, then the 2 relays  fuel solenoid and diode works well enough.


Relay 1 is dpdt using the normally open contacts NO (normally open)

Relay 2 is dpdt but use 1 set as NO and 1 set as NC contacts (normally closed)


Use half of a dpdt (relay 1 NO contacts) driven by the outback to turn on the fuel solenoid. Also use this signal through the second relays NC contacts in series with the starter solenoid. When the outback sends the gen on signal relay 1 closes and provides b+ to the fuel solenoid direct and the starter solenoid through the NC contacts of the second relay. That gets the thing starting. (fuel on and starter turning)


Assuming your oil sender grounds out when pressure is reached, then use this to turn on relay 2. The NC contacts open and the starter stops.... now what happens when we dont start but still reach oil pressure from turning it over........


In the second half of relay 1 (driven by outback) use the  NO contacts to switch B- to the second relays solenoid via a set of NO contacts in the second relay(this relays coil is wired to b+ and we switch it on via the b- from the oil sender turning on) When the sender turns on relay 2, it also will then latch itself on from the relay 1 b- NO contacts. in series with the NO contacts in relay2


So if the engine doesn't start, the oil pressure will die off, and the now latched relay 2 holds the NC contacts in series with the starter in the open position. It creates a 1 shot switch and start cannot occur until you reset the relay (momentary  open switch in series with the NO contacts in relay 2 if you want this option) or the outback lets off the gen on signal.


If the engine does start, then all will be well until the outback turns off the "gen on" signal. This will reset the system until next start.


A diode in series with the relay 2 and the oil sender will isolate the sender so the B- signal on the relay 2 does not interfere with the oil low light or whatever it is hooked onto.


When the outback turns off the "gen on" signal, the fuel solenoid shuts off and the engine dies.


The Relay 1 goes open circuit  and the system resets the latched relay 2 to off and the oil sender goes open, (relay 2 drops out and unlatches) .... ready for the next cycle


The latching circuit is only to stop secondary starts if the  engine did not fire up.


If the oil sender turns on too early,(ie gets up to pressure before the engine starts) you can sample the ac output from the alternator to get your engine running signal to drive relay 2 instead of the oil switch, ...but we won't be able to stop the starter if it does not start..... then a timing circuit using perhaps a 555 might be in order.


And if your starting to feel bold, then you can use a third relay to turn off the fuel solenoid from the oil sender in case of low oil pressure, and use the starter signal to turn on the fuel solenoid during the start cycle (use an isolating diode from the starter relay to stop the fuel solenoid from trying to run the starter in this case)


Whew, if you follow that your better than me.. but hopefully  you'll get the gist of it.


............might be low tech, but a monster to explain


.............oztules

« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 07:40:21 AM by (unknown) »
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RP

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Re: Generator
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 09:20:57 PM »
One way is to go to an auto parts store and get one of those remote starter things (wireless) and use that.  It has a microprocessor, detects when the engine is running, etc...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 09:20:57 PM by (unknown) »