The addiction continues...

[TomW]

Well, folks. I thought I was "caught up" on my RE expenditures for the immediate future.

Like all addictions we have the illusion we are actually in control. It is not so!

I read with interest this post by fabricator:

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,144061.0.html

Now I have a "long term plan" to get our submersible water pump on RE, either with a DC pump or a 240 volt inverter upgrade to my core Outback inverter.

Due to the decent reviews given for the inverter fabricator used I bid on a 24 volt 2500 watts 240 VAC from the same line. Well, I got it for $239 free shipping.

This past Wednesday I was at my Surplus Outlet where I get items to list on Feebay. In my recon around the yard I spot this Absolyte / GNB Traction battery on a pallet in the warehouse. 36 Volt 850 AH sealed battery in a can. 2280 #. The store owner told me he had just had it tested and it has 1 basically dead cell and 2 wimpy cells.  He couldn't find reasonably priced cells to swap so he was going to recycle or sell it. I asked how much. He said its yours for $200.  Well, I went about my business and by the end of the day I had decided to just take the chance on it and forked over the $200! I left it there as I was a bit concerned with how long it would be before I could get it dealt with.  From the weight on the can I expect the cells weigh in at 125# or about 2.5X the limit my cardiologist says I can safely handle. Plus, the Dakota is not rated for a ton of load but I decided I can baby it the 50 miles safely enough if I load it well forward. I am going to pick it up Monday I think  Should get a full 850 AH 24 V bank from the good cells plus 3 extra cells "in case".

Battery nameplate Specs:

Absolyte
8901809U19B059
18 Cells
37.8 Volts
850 AH
2288#

Sorry did not get any photos of the battery.

So this week I doubled my storage capacity and got my pump off grid. Oh, I snagged a nice big 3 Phase 60 amp 600 VAC transfer switch to go from RE to grid on the pump for $100.



So for under $600 I will get my pump off grid on its own system. Or should. If I am lucky the inverter will drive the pump alone but if it doesn't I will get another to network to it.

I probably will try to sort out how to incorporate the new bank into my system with the 20 month old DEKA 450 AH 24 volt bank but to start it will be a separate system except the RE sources.  I got my old 10 footer fixed up and nearly installed. Cracked / loose stator and a busted prop from my stupidity while it was stored. Had to lop off 4.5" on each blade to even up for the chunk I busted off one. Duh.

Well, just an update and I am interested in ideas on how to incorporate this used Absolyte / GNB bank into my existing system so I can use that full 1300 AH capacity regularly.

I am addicted to RE and addicted to "shopping" at surplus outlets  I usually buy more than I resell there but who can pass up a brand new ~$1000 switch for $100 when it is staring you in the face?

Thanks for looking.

Tom

[Volvo farmer]

Nice score!

I wouldn't worry about 1000 lbs in a Dakota at all. I put my eight L16s in a '80s 2WD Toyota pickup along with four 160W solar panels and drove them about 200 miles home. Just stack them up against the cab to keep the weight in the middle.

Personally, I don't see a good way to combine those battery banks. I'm sure you could do it, and possibly with good results, but everything I have ever read about battery banks says to use sets of identical cells or things are going to get unequal.

Those little 2500W inverters are tempting, huh? I thought of shelving one in case my Outback ever quits on me. If you have access to a 'scope, I'd love to see what the waveform looks like on that thing loaded and unloaded.

[ghurd]

How close to going off grid?
or
Any plan to go off grid?
G-

[TomW]

Nice score!

I wouldn't worry about 1000 lbs in a Dakota at all. I put my eight L16s in a '80s 2WD Toyota pickup along with four 160W solar panels and drove them about 200 miles home. Just stack them up against the bed to keep the weight in the middle.

Personally, I don't see a good way to combine those battery banks. I'm sure you could do it, and possibly with good results, but everything I have ever read about battery banks says to use sets of identical cells or things are going to get unequal.

Those little 2500W inverters are tempting, huh? I thought of shelving one in case my Outback ever quits on me. If you have access to a 'scope, I'd love to see what the waveform looks like on that thing loaded and unloaded.

VF;

Yeah mixing battery types is frowned on but I could use the "big bank" as a dump load for times of excess to keep it fairly topped off and a transfer switch to put it into play on long runs of no RE.  I doubt I would just parallel them but the capacity is 2X my main bank so it is non trivial. I seldom have excess power under normal conditions so over charging the sealed units would not be likely.

It would take a long long time to pump 1300 AH of battery very high on voltage for me. Even with the second turbine and full on solar I would not see anything like 200 amps for any length of time. The 12 footer has done 100 amps for short bursts the 10 footer seldom did over 60 and full on solar is 30 amps except cloud edge effect and 40 amps short term. All according to my Doc Wattsons.

Nothing decided yet as I hope to get some good ideas from the crew here.

Thanks for the response.

Tom

[Bruce S]

TomW;
 How old are these batteries?
 It might be better to make this the main battery stable than the current one.

Is this are the newer generation of them?
Bruce S

[TomW]

How close to going off grid?
or
Any plan to go off grid?
G-

G;

I bet we "could" go off grid but no plans to do so.

Remember, it is my hobby and it kind of grew in place with no comprehensive  plan.

Mostly just want to have the survival aspect covered. Water, refrigeration, freezers and lights at the minimum in case things go comnpletely to Hell. Plus, in summer we could not run the AC on the RE we seem to require on some days as old duffers.

I am kind of an RE hoarder, too.

I will need to call you to run some ideas past you on circuits I may need.

Downgrading our 30 gallon electric water heater to 2X 10 gallon units in series because we never use that full capacity . Then run one on the grid as the main unit and #2 (first in the string) as a dump load or grid fed backup / capacity extender like we discussed. That should nick our grid use a LOT. Get rid of that monster 30 gallon tank in the bathroom will be great in itself.

Lots going on and almost have a "plan" now.

Thanks for the response..

PM me your phone # and a good time to call , please.

Tom

[TomW]

TomW;
 How old are these batteries?
 It might be better to make this the main battery stable than the current one.

Is this are the newer generation of them?
Bruce S

Bruce;

No clue on the age or even the style. Like a Pig in a Poke I never opened the cover as it was jammed in between other stuff. 

I trust Don so took his word on it.

It came out of a Caterpillar branded lift truck and the can is pretty clean looking. Not sure how to tell one from the other on the style. I just knew Absolyte / GNB was a quality brand and that combined with it being a traction battery told me it would be worth $200.

They have a cadmium mix in them according to the second hand info from the battery place that tested it if that means anything other than harder to find a recycler to take the clunkers

Interesting idea to use it as the main bank if I understand your comment.

Time will tell.

Thanks for the response.

Tom

[ghurd]

Any chance the retired 30 gallon could be used as 1st in the string?
Maybe in the battery room?

I'm thinking 10 gallons is not going to be much of an opportunistic pre-heater, and won't take very many watt-hours to get up to too hot.
G-

[Bruce S]

TomW;
 How old are these batteries?
 It might be better to make this the main battery stable than the current one.

Is this are the newer generation of them?
Bruce S

I trust Don so took his word on it.

It came out of a Caterpillar branded lift truck and the can is pretty clean looking. Not sure how to tell one from the other on the style. I just knew Absolyte / GNB was a quality brand and that combined with it being a traction battery told me it would be worth $200.

They have a cadmium mix in them according to the second hand info from the battery place that tested it if that means anything other than harder to find a recycler to take the clunkers

Interesting idea to use it as the main bank if I understand your comment.

Tom

Tom;
 That's were I'm headed.
look anything like these? IF so then you have a great find.
I like were G- is going with his idea too. The 30gal would make for a very nice HOT tub heater too .

[TomW]

No room for the 30 and the others. Tiny tiny house here. Most single wide trailers are bigger sq footage wise and no basement ;=<

I already have a 30 gallon fair weather preheater under glass in the yard. Trying to sort out a spot for a storage tank like Gary Gary does drain back system. Solar and wood stove sourced but there is just no spare space here inside. Hundreds of acres but no space in the domocile.

Good ideas indeed.

Tom

[Bruce S]

No room for the 30 and the others. Tiny tiny house here. Most single wide trailers are bigger sq footage wise and no basement ;=<

I already have a 30 gallon fair weather preheater under glass in the yard. Trying to sort out a spot for a storage tank like Gary Gary does drain back system. Solar and wood stove sourced but there is just no spare space here inside. Hundreds of acres but no space in the domicile.

Tom

Sure wish I could trade some of our house size for land :-) BIG basement, 2nd flr only 40x50 foot yard mostly in raised garden(s) now.

 I think G- would like to possibly go with this would be to use one of the 10 gal as a dump load and keep the water nice and heated, the 30gal could be used outside on its side possibly insulated pipes in/you, but you will still be fighting those cold cold cold nights that are headed your way in a few months.
If they are the Lead-Cadmium styles then you truly have a deep cycle battery set that's got a 15+ year life to them. Could be the weak ones can be used even as 12V standby for ground starting a cold diesel.
 
BUT he's light years ahead on these than I am; Will be interesting reading with what he comes up with.

Bruce S


 

[ghurd]

Almost what Bruce said,
except...

I'd like to use the 10G pre-heater as a timed dump load, like maybe 1 minute, and the circuit triggered from the main dump load circuit.
The result would be 10G hot water as almost a opportunistic load.

Then use the 30G as the main dump load.  It would usually operate as nearly a PWM load.

Then the existing dump load as a back-up dump load, triggered from a logic circuit when the 30G thermostat registered max (180F or whatever).

Altogether, the 10G pre-heater would get most of the surplus power, the 30G would get the rest, unless the 30G was at max temp, when the giant resistors would use what the water could not take.

Not as complicated as it sounds, but not exactly a beginners project either.

Just need TomW to dig a basement!   
G-

[DamonHD]

Hey, underfloor heating thrown in for free!

Rgds

Damon

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

One thing I noticed about those off-brand stackable inverters:  Even when stacked each one can take power from a separate battery.

So what I'd do is:
 - Put in a second battery bank.
 - Double up on the bridges on the wind gennys and the blocking diodes on the solar panels,along with the hot feed wires.  Run one set of diodes/rectifier + outputs to each of the banks.
 - Give each bank a separate dump load and controller.
 - Power the master inverter from the larger bank, a slave from the smaller.  (If you have more inverters than banks and/or they are different wattage units, divide them so each bank has a fraction of the inverter wattage roughly proportional to its fraction of bank capacity, with the bank containing the master having a bit less than its share of inverter wattage (so you won't shut down the master while another bank has power to spare).

With separate blocking/rectifier diodes you'll put more of the charge into the less-charged bank but you'll never pull charge from one bank to the other.  With the diodes close to the batteries (in terms of wiring resistance) you'll put nearly all the power into the lower bank, little or none into the higher, if their voltages are significantly unbalanced (either due to charge level or battery temperature/water-level/chemistry  variation).  With more wiring resistance (i.e. diodes at the genny towers / panels and separate feed wires) difference in battery voltage level will have less effect on dividing the charge current, though the lower bank will still get more than the higher.  Either way, if you have enough power to bring them both to full charge in this configuration, chemistry variations won't hold the higher-voltage battery partially charged and drive it into sulfation (as they would if they were directly paralleled).

You'll have to make sure the dump load set points aren't too far apart, keeping the higher voltage battery from full-charging.  And if your equalization is done with genny power you'll have to equalize both banks at once (or disconnect the charging from the bank(s) you're not equalizing.)  Finally, the slave inverter(s) needs to have their own low-voltage cutoff to avoid damaging the smaller bank if it goes empty before the primary inverter shuts off.  (It's not clear if the inverters in question have this feature, though I'd be surprised if they don't.)

[birdhouse]

tom- 
NICE find on the battery! 

i've got a dodge dakota as well.  was NOT impressed with the rear leaf springs and their ability to hold weight.  i bought a set of these:

http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/helper-springs/air-spring-kits/air-lift-ride-control.aspx?make=DODGE&model=DAKOTA&year=2000

best 200 bucks i've spent on that truck!  it would easily handle the 2800 lbs of those batteries with the air shocks installed.  otherwise a load that large will clap out the rear of my truck anyways. 

depending on the psi you put in them they will move the rear bumper up to four inches taller with no load, and your truck drives the same it used to if you leave them at low psi. 

just something to ponder...

adam

[TomW]

All good Feedback, folks.

I finished "repairs" on the 10 footer that had the loose cracked stator and got it up last Saturday AM.

Contrary to turbine installation law, I had good winds since it went up and it will be great to store rather than dump excess with the new battery.

Got it back up using my newly acquired Grip Hoist Knockoff.



Put it up on my 30 foot 4 leg tower:



Its the one on the right [Shortest].

A closeup and that is a sheet PVC tail vane which has worked well so far.



Haven't picked up the battery yet but will tomorrow.

The 240 volt inverter should be here today.

More in a fresh post when it happens.

Enjoy!

Tom

[ghurd]

I put in a set of those "helper coil springs" that clamp to the axle and go up to the frame.
They worked great with a heavy load, and only cost about $25...
but since the 3 capacities available at the store cost within about $2, I opted for the strongest ones, which when empty rode like the axle was welded to the frame.
This type,
http://www.amazon.com/Superior-12-0750-Design-Helper-Capacity/dp/B000CPINNO

I never had great luck with the air type lasting as long as I wanted.  I keep my vehicles a Lot longer than most people.
G-

[TomW]

I put in a set of those "helper coil springs" that clamp to the axle and go up to the frame.
They worked great with a heavy load, and only cost about $25...
but since the 3 capacities available at the store cost within about $2, I opted for the strongest ones, which when empty rode like the axle was welded to the frame.
This type,
http://www.amazon.com/Superior-12-0750-Design-Helper-Capacity/dp/B000CPINNO

I never had great luck with the air type lasting as long as I wanted.  I keep my vehicles a Lot longer than most people.
G-

Yeah on this one time deal I am not going to modify the pickup.

I have access to a real truck if I need it from a guy I drive semi for occasionally in the dirt work business  when he is busy.

According to the plate on the door it can handle #1500 of load so only going to be 60 or 70% over rating even with my chubby butt in the cab. Nice, smooth 45 mile trip on good roads I am just gonna do it tomorrow. Got a loader lined up to pick it out of the truck.

I am going with an outside install in a well insulated box set on a solid floor of Railroad tie lengths. Ties because I have them and at 8" thick it will be semi insulated. Set just outside my South  wall so only need a short cable through the wall.

Tom