Advice on where to start

[bstedh]

I am starting out with an eye to just lowering my electric bill and may ramp up in the future to complete off grid or as close to it as I can get. I am starting with just some research and some basic items I already have at my disposal.

Here is what I have at hand at this moment.

15 almost new batteries of 3 types, 3X type 1, 4X type 2, 8X type 3. All over 90Ah deep cycle designed for cellular base station use.

1X 2000W Prosine UPS 12V inverter possibly 2 in the near future (Currently used a backup for internet/phone and sump pump with the 3X type1 batteries giving 6+ hours of the sump running almost constantly with 9A load off and on every couple of minutes, 60A at the batteries)
2X 2000W 48V APC UPS with dead batteries
1X 1000W 24V APC UPS with old but working batteries (Currently used a backup for Living-room entertainment center. About 1 Hour of use)
1X 750W 24V Generic UPS with old but working batteries
1X Eltek Valere CK 48V power shelf Possibly not very useful in household environment.

2X aluminum outdoor enclosures to house the Batteries and inverters for safety in the basement. (Need to design venting)

I need to start looking into what Solar and wind options would work for keeping the batteries charged for the least amount of money. I wont have any until I start reducing my electric bill. =]

Will I have issues with the UPS' if they are trying to charge the batteries at the same time my solar/wind are trying to or should I just set them up as off grid to certain parts of the house so that they merely act as an inverter instead of a UPS. Thus having multiple independent systems for different parts of the house.

I know this is a little rambling but just looking for a kick in the correct direction to get started.

[birdhouse]

firstly, you should understand, that grid power is "almost" always cheaper than battery based RE power.  unless you can find solar panels at the dump, or live in the widiest area in the world, i can bet you'll spend WAY more on the bits and parts to create an offgrid power source, compared to buying from the grid.

money. I wont have any until I start reducing my electric bill. =]

what's your KWh usage per month?  i'd start there and see what can be reduced via insulation, CFL's, passive heating/cooling, a wood stove, ect.  many of these items will save as much as they cost over a few years. 

adam

[DamonHD]

It's usually many times cheaper to conserve than generate, and most people I think can easily cut their energy use in half without much pain, for example this gives you an idea of how we've done better than that:

http://www.earth.org.uk/saving-electricity.html

I am in fact in the throes of trying to organise a mass (free) insulation campaign in houses close to me, often for people who have no money for (say) solar PV, and that might make easily as much difference to their bills and carbon footprint.

Rgds

Damon

[bstedh]

I am aware of the cost differential but the above listed items being a large part of that cost should get me started as I was able to acquire them at no cost as excess. With my initial investment so greatly reduced it starts to make sense to look toward and alternative energy. Otherwise I would agree that there would be no cost benefit.

I am hoping that this will make the further investment into PV or Wind viable for me. I am still researching so it may not, but I do at least have to look and see if it will be. I just don't really know the best place to start looking for low cost starting points and what all I would need to tie what I do have together.

We have started the conservation side, such as switching to 90% CFL and we will be adding insulation to the attic and putting in led or other low power lighting for hallways and such. Plus several other small things that will add up over time.

The bigger quest is to free up more monthly cash for other uses.

(Beer fridge will probably be the first thing I would like to get off grid or reduced =])

[bstedh]

I should add for clarification that the backup system is in place and required due to a very poor quality power grid in my area and I do most of my work from home so it was a needed investment/aquasition, so as long as I am started down that road why not see how much further I can take it.

As long as as stated, the price i right....

[DamonHD]

You certainly don't have to do it all at once, but yes, do get that insulation in, and weatherising, and so on!

(BTW, that beer fridge may suck as much energy as your real fridge, so is maybe not a good idea from a bill/consumpion pov!)

Rgds

Damon

[bstedh]

Actually I'm sure it consumes a lot more than the regular fridge as it is opened many more times a day...

[Bruce S]

Since I have some first hand knowledge of using the APC units both 24V and 48V let me lend some knowledge on those.
IF you can , keep the batteries outside of the enclosures, remove ALL the batteries if you can and check each one individually. APC units are known to cook the batteries, while on grid power they are always charging so they sit inside and just get cooked dry, even if they use SLAs.
the 48V version if the batteries are still inside may be "FUN" getting them out as there's very little wiggle room and some if not ALL of them could already be swollen to the point were you'll need a rubber mallet and pry-bar to get them out.

The 24V version is just as bad about cooking the batteries, running connections to outside the cases will certainly help them as well.

When trying to find the items to help cut down on what is commonly known as Phantom loads you can grab some surge protectors that have an on/off switch and move stuff to these, things like TVs, DVRs, anything that seems to come on instantly has stand-by power these sit and chew up power even when not being used.
Both LED and LCD TVs generate heat even when not on, you can put your hand on the top and feel this. IF you need them to be ready, you can put them on timers that shut them off during sleep times and comes on the rest of the time.

Hope this helps;
Bruce S

[bstedh]

This is good to know, I was thinking of replacing the prosine with the 48V APC 3000xl but if it is hard on batteries I won't do that until I have an alternate charging method and just use them as inverters to save on the battery abuse. The prosine shuts the battery charger down when they are adequately charged and only switches on when they drop below a programmed level.

I have already pulled the batteries out of the larger APC units and will actually set them up with strings of batteries mounted in a rack instead of the punny little batteries they come with. I have some older batteries that don't have much life left in them that I may use on the APC units for now. Don't really care if those get fried as they are old and tired. I just have to check and make sure I have 4 that will still charge above 11V =]  I need to put some of them on the Prosine and run desulfication process on them to see if they will come back to life.

[WindriderNM]

Gov. Surplus auctions sometimes havegood sfuf. I just got a zomeworks tracker with 16 panels  a 2.5kw inverter 12v water purifier all on a trailer for $1450