FROM NTL:
"Perhaps we should not discuss the Hydrated part online. Don't want the wrong people showing up for the wrong reasons. Revenuers not welcome.
"I'm headed to Poplar Bluff, MO soon to see a farmers unit running that makes use of all the rice being grown down there. He keeps the cast-off fro harvest, tells me it's costing him on average $.25/gal to make it out of low grade rice than even using sugar beets. We'll see."
I am about 1- 1 1/2 hours away I think. If ya want check with the farmer and if he doesn't care maybe I'll meet you over there if I can. I'd like to see that also.
So after reading your post above, and knowing the little bit I know about yeast and fermentation (not alot, but some) where would one find the alcohol in a barrel of mash?
Top, middle, bottom?
"Once I see that to mash is starting to get clear at the top and the J tube isn't bubbling anymore I wait one more day.
I open the top take off the J tube insert a siphon and pull all this stuff into 5 gal buckets. I clean out the 20 q and then insert the false bottom bucket, the false bottom seperator and the first 5 gal bucket of stuff."
I don't really know much about this but thinking out loud here.
My thought is the yeast is killed 2 ways, alcohol kills yeast and also heat. Now if we used yeast to get a batch started, it grows fast right. So we take some mash out to save yeast for the next batch, always doing this we don't have to buy more each time. This would make using brewers yeast less expensive if we only buy it once and grow our own from then on. The old bread makers did the same thing, saving a ball of dough from each batch to use as a starter for the next batch of bread. So why not for brewing??
If it works same as the bread did, just refrigerate it till ready for use to stop the fermentation.
If the alcohol richest part of the mash accumilates primarily in one area of the tank, then if I put a drain valve there and strain off that part to a second tank before the yeast dies then perhaps the first tank would provide a larger yield total from the same mix. Thinking here if the bulk of alcohol were removed the yeast could live longer and produce more.
When the yeast does die out, how much sugar is left over in the mash? When you mix your mash have you figured it to a point where all the sugar is used up before the yeast dies? This is something I am wondering about also. If sugar is still left in the mash after removing the alcohol, then if I drained off say 1/4 - 1/2 tank when nearly done but not quite, then dump back in the old mash from a previous batch, would that dilute the alcohol present while still providing what ever sugar was still in the old mash. This way all sugar is sure to be used up and the yeast lives a maximum life. Do ya think removing the alcohol from a mash then dumping it back into a fresh batch would hurt anything?
Since a 55gal teflon lined steel barrel with removeable lid costs me $10 I figure I'd use one for this, not much more than a 5gal gas can costs anyway.
To begin with I will stick to what works, at least till I know what I am doing. But food for thought. Have you tried auto exhaust for a heat source for distilling?
I mean the heat is there as a by product, radiator or exhaust
If we could control the temp of a tank properly using that waste heat while we drive, like heating antifreeze and cirulating around a tank of mash, then vent into a cooler tank, any cost of heating would be eliminated. For small cars that may not be much of an option, but the 78 Ford truck I just bought has 3 tanks! Main rear tank, one smaller side tank each side. So if I were mount a mash tank under it I could vent to one side tank for storage. Then use an electric feul pump to empty that tank or mix with gasolene as needed. Just a thought
Heating costs is something everyone seems to mention when discussing alcohol for feul, if it's that much of an expense that might be away to remove it!
.
nothing to lose"
NTL:
I am with you 1000% on that I don't want anyone to show up thinking that there are drinks just for showing up. That would be stupid on my part and I really don't feel like going to jail for any reason.
I really should re-read my stuff before I post it rather than just some quick over view.
I gent in Poplar Bluff should've read that he's saying that he's able to make it on average for $.25/per gal less than what I'm able to do currently. SORRY for the misteak.
I will call him and see if he doesn't mind more people coming out or meeting near there. He's a old friend of my mom's side of the family and lives near the landing strip for the crop duster so it should be a problem.
Since I have been dealing with straight sugar I've gotten lazy and haven't looked into the starch and carbs side of fermentation in a long time. I am looking into sugar beets for the starch side as they can be had pretty cheap at the farmers markets
The fermentation normally kills the yeast, besides it's the cheapest yeast I can find so I'm not too worried about the quality of it, being bread yeast it hasn't had any problem handling the heat.
NOW if you are into making Soda-Pop or beer or even better Wine, and use those types yeast then I would say to use it once you have finished with it in the wine making side. There's a product out that we used in S.A. put out by a water softener company that was a nitrate stuff; we used it as a "food" for the yeast once we pulled it from the grape/yeast residue. I'll try and find it and let you know what it was/is.
Wine /beer yeast is much better at converting sugars and can stand a greater swing of batches so it might be a better way to go if you are looking for something very stable.
I am jealous of the 55gal drum, do you have a couple available? There are a few things you can try with each one.
If the lining can withstand temps around 50C then this can save you almost an entire set of steps and you would only have the freezing or second run to go. Do the lids lock in place?
I am not too sure lugging the mash around in the truck's tanks would work too well. The mash needs a stable area for the yeast to work it's magic and all that sloshing around and extra heat would probably kill it off.
I think if some is using a fuel powered genny then making use of the exhaust would be okay to use for the cooking and heat stabilizing of the fermenting side, but those fumes tend to be deadly and it may be more costly than the end worth, but still ( no pun intended) doable.
I make use of the small Solar charged UPS with extra batteries and DC wherever I can route.
Someone in a different thread turned me on to some cheap thermistors and as soon as I can find an extra minute I am going to those a try for an automatic switch for the internal heater.
One of my next trials will be to use a container that has a faucet on it. I have found that the hardest part is removing the left over stuff in the 5gal bucket, this is because once I open the top and get everything ready work the next batch I have to drain the 32quart one. WI want to be able to open a faucet and drain the first run off so that I don't get anything such as extra water down into the run. With a faucet about ¼" up to maybe 1" from the bottom I should be able to drain off first. I can also use this setup for the vehicles stuff to go directly to the galvanizer, and then off either to a container with Zeolite or the freezer if the hydrometer show that it's below where I need it to be before adding to the tank.
Hope some of this helps
Bruce S