Author Topic: Awesome wind turbine boneyard -- plus some live ones too!  (Read 4003 times)

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(unknown)

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Awesome wind turbine boneyard -- plus some live ones too!
« on: May 16, 2005, 03:26:53 AM »
And hopefully the expert NREL National Wind Technology Center staff will find it amusing that I'm waxing poetic about their boneyard first, and their turbines and facilities later! My apologies to Walter if I got any facts wrong, my mouth was hanging open too far to take notes.





Got a chip or nick in one of the 50-foot blades on your backyard wind turbine? Maybe you can make an offer -- though security is very tight here, and I don't think they admit folks who just show up at the gate and ask to do some "horse tradin'."





Tapered roller bearings on your hobby wind turbine getting squeaky? A little WD-40 and this puppy will be good as new. Just might fit the bill, as long as your project turbine has a 12 inch diameter shaft.





Is your old nacelle not dramatic enough? With a little fresh paint, this one will impress the neighbors. Would really spiff up the looks of your Air403, and ships on a standard 18-wheel tractor trailer.





Old blades from 20 to 100 feet long! Thousands of feet of lattice tower sections! Giant spools of guy wire and bins of cable clamps! Spools of power wires as thick as your arm! If the NREL NWTC ever has a garage sale, I'M THERE.





A whole crew of teachers who want to teach wind power to kids (I'm in there somwhere) .... in front of a 45 meter (148 foot) fiberglas composite turbine blade that weighs in at about 24,000 lbs. The whole day and tour courtesy of NREL and Michael at http://www.kidwind.org/ All these folks think that inspiring and teaching kids about wind power might make them want to pursue one of the dozen careers that relate to wind power. Plus, kids frankly find PV panels kinda' boring -- they just sit there -- but wind turbines are better than TV to watch. Notice the hard hats -- all OSHA regs here, folks. Safety glasses needed indoors. Hobbyists take note.





This 40+ meter blade has already been stress tested. All the pockmarks are from where strain gauges, laser sighting targets, wire harnesses and such were attached. The hydraulic machines in the blade testing building twist, bend, shake, vibrate and otherwise torture the blades, and computers record the data.


No pictures allowed inside the testing facilities, not beacuse of national security, but because NREL partners with the wind industry to test their stuff and there are trade secret concerns. No problem here in shutting off my camera  after we entered the buildings, more power to these folks.


Write your congressmen and senators and ask them to cut some money loose for NREL to add a few feet onto the blade testing building. They've had to cut 2-3 feet off some blades that go in there because they were too long to fit in the building!  I was amazed  that the tip of a 45 meter blade was 1/8 inch thick, just like the ones we build. Of course the root is about 7 feet in diameter. Blades get bigger every year, and I think the NREL staff would really love to have a building that can fit them in there.


The dynamometer testing building was awesome, again no pics allowed. They were spinning up a 1500 kw (1.5mW) generator/gearbox/shaft assembly for accelerated stress testing, running it at over 2 mW (far over capacity) for 2000 hours. PC workstations control and monitor all aspects of the test---rpms, torque, temperatures, power in and out, vibration, even metal particle levels in the lubricating oil. The power produced is fed back into the dynamometer driver motor -- but friction losses are 200kW. Each computer has a little sign on it saying "Web surfing on this computer is absolutely forbidden." We did not see any Windows blue screens of death.





I think this 8kW Grumman Aerospace turbine from the 1970s must have sentimental value at NREL. It's the lawn ornament at the vistor's parking lot...much cooler than a pink flamingo.





The twins here are Advanced Research 600kW machines. Toys for big boys and girls at the the NWTC staff, they do research on control systems with them.





This one has a variable speed rotor, the other is constant speed. Variable speed is getting more common on utility-scale turbines.





Bergey 10kW that was zipping along the whole day we were there. All the numerous high lattice towers on the site are loaded with anemometers and lightning protection. They are everywhere! The Bergey feeds power into the NREL facility and the grid -- they actually have their own separate "mini grid" just for the small turbine testing area of the site, so they can simulate many different grid conditions, faults, etc. . But this bad boy was doing most of the power production all day:





This North Wind 100kW upwind was also producing power all day -- it's also a variable speed rotor. One teacher at the seminar was from Alaska and said they use this same turbine in many remote villages like Kotzebue and others --  revenues well spent by locals and tribes!





Atlantic Orient Corp 50kW downwind. If the turbine runs away, an internal cable shears and the flaps on the tips spring out to stop rotation so the repair crew can climb up.


Oh yeah, there was a Whisper and Bergey that power the guard house, they spun all day too. Cool, but BORING compared to what we'd seen!


All in all a VERY fun tour!


ADMIN

« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 03:26:53 AM by (unknown) »

wdyasq

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I'm impressed.
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2005, 09:46:24 PM »
Now, if we just could find a Volvo large enough to donate the hubs for a disc-brake mill.....  a few miles of copper wire and neos large enough to pickup small crawler tractors.


Ron

« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 09:46:24 PM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

Norm

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Re: Awesome wind turbine boneyard
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2005, 10:01:35 PM »
   Those tapered roller bearings would be about

right for that merry-go-round part of the VAWT

that I considered making at one time....now for

the part to put em in? Well never mind ...I guess

they might be a little too big for that even,

I'll just stick with one of the truck axle

bearings that my son gave me ...also might need

some WD-40 for that....

               Nice pics that one with

whole bunch of people...really impressive...

                  ( :>) Norm.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 10:01:35 PM by Norm »

pyrocasto

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Re: I'm impressed.
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2005, 10:19:50 PM »
You can get neos on ebay 6" in diameter and 2" thick, and they will pick up over a ton each. :-)


Looks like you had a blast. I would kill for a tour like that. ;-)

« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 10:19:50 PM by pyrocasto »

jomoco

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Re: Awesome wind turbine boneyard
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2005, 10:23:58 PM »
Thanks for posting this story!


It's an affirmation that we here in the U.S. are not totally lame when it comes to R.E. technology.


I've no doubt that with some real leadership in office, it would not take very long for us to once again set an example worthy of following, as opposed to the distain and ridicule that we currently are accumulating.


Your post has reminded me that it is still very much within our grasp to turn things around and create a an R.E. environment worthy of passing on to our children,

and for that I thank you very much.


Sincerely,


jomoco

« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 10:23:58 PM by jomoco »

zap

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Re: Awesome wind turbine boneyard
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2005, 10:42:44 PM »
That place is impressive.  I managed to get a self guided tour a few years back.  Had a concrete sawing job there, the contractor had to go to another job and left me alone.  : )  The visitors center is worth a stop if you're in the area.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 10:42:44 PM by zap »

ADMIN

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Re: Our tax dollars at work
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2005, 11:04:33 PM »
My parting comment to Walt Musial, head of blade testing at the NWTC and our tour guide, was "Thanks for spending our tax dollars on something useful!" Walt's blade theory lecture was excellent, and we got to chat with him all day. And Michael Arquin of http://www.Kidwind.org is very dedicated and very sharp, and is putting a huge amount of time and effort to the Kidwind program. He got Trudy Forsyth of the NREL small wind turbine program interested last year (she's really cool!) , and I went down there for Otherpower to promote teachers incorporating home-built alternators into the tiny turbine designs (I brought Ed Lenz's http://www.windstuffnow.com/ 3-phase VAWT alternator kit down there). Michael just bought some of these from Ed and couldn't wait to get home to mount them on a HAWT.....not sure if if he'll get to it first or me (he has travel time back to Boston whilst I can start on it tomorrow AM.....) <grin> We also think that the 10-foot axial flux designs would be entirely suitable for a high school or community college class to build, if the school has metal and wood shop classes. In fact one teacher there had already started one based on Hugh's designs and ours with his classes! He may come up to visit the Otherpower shop this week on his way back to Utah. Teachers attended this seminar from all over the country, and as far away as Alaska. So perhaps America's energy independance future is not so grim as I feared --some of the kids that get interested in RE will be our future politicians and policymakers. And I bet not many of them want to be coal or uranium miners, either!

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« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 11:04:33 PM by ADMIN »

richhagen

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NREL
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2005, 12:15:03 AM »
DanF, Thanks for sharing.  Thats a stop I should have made when I was out there.  Oh well, I guess I have to make another trip out your way in the not too distant future.  :-)  Your post was very encouraging.  I think it is almost certain we will rely on this technology for an increasing part of our national grid power in the forseeable future.  It is nice to see an investment in the technology required to bring this about.  


If my math is right, and the cost of electricity out there was .10 a KWH, and they are using 200KW for 2000 hours to test that turbine, that would cost $40,000.00 in electricity to conduct the test on the 1.5Mw turbine.  I'm sure they get a better rate, but thats a huge amount of power input, and the electricity used is probably a tiny, tiny part of the cost of conducting the test relative to the equipment and the labor.  


Hmm, seems like some of those old turbines and parts could up and walk over to the Otherpower Shop/Factory/Laboratory for reincarnation into productive use.  I can just see DanF's 40 meter turbine towering on the peak above his house.  (with those thick cables at NREL the line losses shouldn't be too bad)  We could call it art, like Mt. Rushmore is to the Dakota's it could be to the National Forest there.... just kidding


All in all an inspiring post.  Rich

« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 12:15:03 AM by richhagen »
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veewee77

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Re: Awesome wind turbine boneyard -- plus some liv
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2005, 05:56:32 AM »
If that is the place on the northwest part of Denver, I went by there but got no further than the gate. . .


How did you get inside?


I would like to go back and get a better tour.


Doug

« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 05:56:32 AM by veewee77 »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: NREL
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2005, 10:39:59 AM »
If my math is right, and the cost of electricity out there was .10 a KWH, and they are using 200KW for 2000 hours to test that turbine, that would cost $40,000.00 in electricity to conduct the test on the 1.5Mw turbine.  I'm sure they get a better rate, but thats a huge amount of power input, and the electricity used is probably a tiny, tiny part of the cost of conducting the test relative to the equipment and the labor.


They probaby do a swap:  Testing the mills in the wind generates a bunch of power, too.


It might be interesting to see how close they can come to self-funding by selling the juice generated during up-the-pole testing - perhaps designing some long-term tests to keep the commercial mills onsite long enough to make the money come out beyond break-even.  B-)

« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 10:39:59 AM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

jimjjnn

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Re: NREL
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2005, 05:22:16 PM »
I still see the older mills out there as well as new ones. I believe they stress test them at higher outputs at times. Some fail but others keep going.

There are some larger ones out there that I very seldom see moving tho the wind is blowing. Come to think about it, I can't remember the wind never blowing there.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 05:22:16 PM by jimjjnn »

jimjjnn

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Re: Awesome wind turbine boneyard -- plus some liv
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2005, 05:24:26 PM »
Doug, You can call the visitors center and ask when you can go on a tour. Don't have them often except for schools but they do have them. Maybe get on a school tour.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 05:24:26 PM by jimjjnn »

richhagen

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Re: NREL
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2005, 08:07:50 PM »
The 200KW was the friction losses.  If I read Dan's post right, they feed the generated power back into it but have to add an additional 200KW to keep it generating 2MW.  Hopefully you're right about the long term mounted ones and they can more than offset their power use with the mills in the field.  Rich
« Last Edit: May 16, 2005, 08:07:50 PM by richhagen »
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