Author Topic: APC's and inverters  (Read 1653 times)

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iFred

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APC's and inverters
« on: June 13, 2004, 09:54:15 PM »
I have a wind generator with a charge controller that I built to charge 9 deep cycle 24 amp hour gel cells (golf cart batteries) and a 1000 watt inverter (mod sine wave 2000watt surge). I am keeping the batts and inverters in the garage (which is temp controlled year round) and have run 2x 50 ft of #2 cable to the house underground and to a closet where I have 2 APC500 units that plug into the two lines to the inverters. Those APC500 units are 350 watts each.   I checked with the website but they don't say if the APC's are modified sine or not, does anyone know?


http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=29


Double redundancy was important in my application so I went one step futher....


Anyway, on the APC units I brought the batteries connections out of box and they connect to 2 more of those deep cycle 24ah gel cells. So even if the main batt bank fails or are not charged (in the garage) the secondary kicks in and I still have some power no matter what. The batts also get trickle charged from the APC's which is coming from the inverters in the garage anyway. The entire system is 12 volts. The load is 500 watts of computer and lights split between 2 APC units fed by a single inverter and is not a constant load. approx 6-8 hours on per day.


Now the main question: Is running the APC's off the modified sine inverters a good thing? Anyone have experience in this area? And are there any problems with using larger battery AH's connected to the APC's for the purpose to extend "the up time" for the load?


Oh, I have pics of this stuff on main web page. www.internetfred.com


Thanks for any help in advance!

« Last Edit: June 13, 2004, 09:54:15 PM by (unknown) »

iFred

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2004, 10:45:03 PM »
« Last Edit: June 13, 2004, 10:45:03 PM by (unknown) »

Chagrin

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2004, 11:01:01 PM »
Is it really necessary to connect to the APCs with 110V? Couldn't you hook up directly to the batteries? I know it doesn't answer your question, but you would save a little bit of loss from that extra inverter.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2004, 11:01:01 PM by (unknown) »

iFred

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2004, 01:06:42 AM »
The APC units use 110 Volts and drain .220ma in standby. 12 Volts is only for the batts and for standby in case the 110 is not their. Buzzer keeps beeping to..The other way to look at this is that I am reducing the resistance by feeding 110v over a 50 ft #2 cable running to the house, the loss is substaintial if you run this on 12v. with 110v it's around 1.93 % loss only approx for 50ft.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2004, 01:06:42 AM by (unknown) »

RatOmeter

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2004, 08:05:30 AM »
Those are most likely modified sine inverters.


The SmartUPS line is the least expensive sine inverter series from APC.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2004, 08:05:30 AM by (unknown) »

nothing to lose

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2004, 01:19:23 PM »
Alot will depend on what you have for an inverter and Ups's.


I have an OLD APC UPS 800RT and it puts out 600watts as I recall. I have it connected to 2 115 amp hr deep cycle batts for 24vdc. Rather it be 12v but it was set up with 4 6v batts at 24v originally. I run a digital clock, transformer for the cordless phone, a light when power goes off, and various other stuff at times for testing. It turns on without 120v power and will run from batteries only. With 120v it keeps the batts charged. I plan to run this off the 5000watt Aims inverter I have.

If the main Batt bank gets low/dead my important stuff will still run off the ups for a long time! I disabled the buzzer (broke it off the board) even though the UPS had a button to disable it. We loose power a great deal in S MO, Howell Oregon power co-op is the worst most incompetent power company I ever saw in my life of 44 years and I have lived all over the USA, mostly rural areas!!!!  That said, I disabled the batts the other day because I needed the cable elsewhere, I just looked and the clock is flashing again!! Less than 48 hours and the power been off twice long enough to kill my alarm clock! So far that setup works good when I keep the batts connected to it.


I have a couple 350watt APC ups's but when I connect those to another inverter like the RT800 or the Aims 5000watt the 350watt one clicks and clacks alot like they are switching on off or back and forth from 120v to batts and back. I don't know how they are going to work out when I swap to all batts and inverters. I may need to run those off a small sinewave inverter instead of mod wave or get others instead.


As I recall my larger UPS for my main computer runs fine off the Aims Inverter also.

Maybe a better inverter would also run the smaller Ups's better.


I plan to do something similar to what your doing. Setup the main battery bank away from the house and mount the inverter there then run 120 to the house. In the house all the computers and a few other important items will run off a few UPS systems. I agree with you about lower line loss with the 120vac over 12vdc plus you can get 100amp or 200 amp ac mains line anywhere much easier and cheaper than 100amp 12vcd lines! I don't give a flip about codes, but where they matter welding cable often does not pass from what I've heard, even though it is best.

 As for a loss using the UPS to charge the batts at the house, it's worth the little we loose I think for the security of having the backup if the main system goes down or we have to shut it off to work on it. Some things we just don't want to shut off, like the wifes computer just so I can play with the mills or batteries!!!

« Last Edit: June 14, 2004, 01:19:23 PM by (unknown) »

phil b

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2004, 02:05:34 PM »
I've had excellent responses from using APC's support center and technical hotline.

http://www.apc.com/support/index.cfm
« Last Edit: June 15, 2004, 02:05:34 PM by (unknown) »
Phil

RedLance

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Re: APC's and inverters
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2004, 11:07:02 PM »
I run an APC SmartUPS 700.  It originaly had 2x 12volt 7Ah batteries, in seiries for 24V 7Ah.


Now it has 4 12V 17Ah, in series, parallel, for 24V @ 34Ah


It runs 2 full tower servers for over 2 hours.  It draws about 8 amps from the battery pack, when I loose commercial power.


I currently don't have any RE feeding into this system, but I would like to have a setup like iFred's


I recently got an Axium 2000VA rack mount UPS, to add to my system, but I haven't been able to afford the 8 12Volt batteries I need. It requires a 96 volt battery pack, which it did not come with.


Also, you guys might find this link interesting: http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2004061800033273&catname=electric&keyword=ECBA


Tell me if those are resonable prices...it's local to me, so I only have to pay 7% tax, instead of insane shipping costs.


RedLance

« Last Edit: June 17, 2004, 11:07:02 PM by (unknown) »