Author Topic: 3-phase rectifiers  (Read 3884 times)

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capthook

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3-phase rectifiers
« on: January 23, 2009, 06:07:51 AM »
I see most people are using 3 individual bridge rectifiers.


I've been using 6 individual Schottky diodes (lower voltage drop), but fried 'em.


Thinking of replacing them with this:





35A / 400V 3-phase rectifier  $16.00


Manufacturer    Vishay/Semiconductors


Manufacturer Part Number    VS-36MT40

Description    RECT BRIDGE 3-PHA 400V 35A D-63


Data sheet:

http://www.vishay.com/docs/93565/93565.pdf

Digikey link:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=VS-36MT40-ND


A larger rating then I was using, a compact design and a good price.


Would this be recommended?

And why aren't more people using 3-phase designed components over (3) individual rectifiers?


Thanks!

« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 06:07:51 AM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 02:17:13 AM »
Without knowing your requirements it is impossible to give a sensible answer.


Why did the schottkys fry? over voltage or over current? Did you let the battery become disconnected.


Your 35A 400v bridges will manage something like 20A if well mounted and will be suitable for any battery charging voltage and will survive most conditions if the battery gets disconnected ( don't do  it, it's bad for the turbine ).


People use then as they are cheap and easily available . 3 phase bridges are usually significantly more expensive and are not as readily available. 3 phase units are fine if you can find them or afford them but use at about half claimed amps if you want long life.


I infinitely prefer stud diodes but they need significant engineering  with isolated heat sinks and are probably not attractive to the average person. They seem to have less losses and far higher reliability ( you get what you pay for in the end).


Flux

« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 02:17:13 AM by (unknown) »

capthook

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »
Thank you for the reply Flux.


The diode(s) failed due to over-voltage while changing the battery.

I am thinking the 3-phase component would be more robust and is easier to implement than the individual diodes.  (abandoning the .7V savings with the Schottkys)


The concerns are efficiency and heat.

I don't know whether the 3-phase component may be ultimately more or less efficient vs. the 3 individual bridges.

And with 3 individual bridges you have 3 heatsinks.

With 1 3-phase component, 1 heatsink.

This also may affect efficiency.


And it's easily sourced from Digikey and for a few bucks less than 3 individual bridges. ($16 vs. $21)


I haven't seen any builds using a 3-phase component so thought I'd inquire as to why/why not.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 10:56:55 AM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 11:27:13 AM »
Schottkys are only really suitable for 12v. There are a few that have sufficient voltage rating to handle 24v but the volt drop of the higher voltage ones is a fair bit more than the low volt ones.


The single phase bridges can all be mounted on the same heat sink, they are isolated from the connections.


The 3 phase bridge is simplest to use but expect no more than half its nominal rating with battery charging loads and normal heat sinks. Using two single phase units gives much the same rating although in theory it looks as though it ought to be higher but I would still not run much over 18A.


If you use 3 units with the diode strings paralleled in each unit you would in theory be able to run near the 30A figure. With imperfect sharing you would still be better staying below 25A unless you can manage monster heatsinks.


You will not notice any difference in efficiency,it is there and you may be able to measure it on bench tests but under wind conditions you won't see any difference.


The potted bridges will need significantly more heat sinking than the schottkys so the actual diode loss is significantly more but the system loss is far less obvious.


For some reason the potted bridges seem to need much more heatsinking than decent stud mounted diodes although the published volt drops are not so different.


Flux

« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 11:27:13 AM by (unknown) »

rossw

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 12:11:34 PM »
I recently rebuilt my rectifier into a more convenient wall-mounted enclosure, but still using the 3 x 35A/400V bridge modules.
Wider shot of the bridges, busbar, connector, ammeter etc:


[img width= height=]http://house.albury.net.au/01jan2009/thumb.100_3122.JPG[/img]


Closeup showing exposed busbar (plastic cover slid off):


[img width= height=]http://house.albury.net.au/01jan2009/thumb.100_3126.JPG[/img]


Oblique shot of one bridge and busbars:


[img width= height=]http://house.albury.net.au/01jan2009/thumb.100_3127.JPG[/img]


Connections made:


[img width= height=]http://house.albury.net.au/04jan2009/thumb.100_3138.JPG[/img]


Completed unit on the wall (doors open):


[img width= height=]http://house.albury.net.au/04jan2009/thumb.100_3136.JPG[/img]


Completed unit on the wall (doors closed):


[img width= height=]http://house.albury.net.au/04jan2009/thumb.100_3139.JPG[/img]


These heatsinks are from computer CPUs and still have the fans attached. While the fans are not required even when running 1000 watts, it does make me happier keeping the temperatures low. There is a heap of empty space in the case for when I make my datalogger to go in here. For now though, it's operational at least.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 06:48:54 PM by rossw »

bob golding

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 01:39:05 PM »
hi ,

i use 100amp 3 phase bridge rectifiers on my  system. (12 volt 25 amps at furling.) i get mine from ebay. they cost around 25 pounds which is about 18 dollars or so. i have mine on a chunky heatsink i found at the local dump. its about 6 x 4 x 5 and was designed for that size of bridge. been fine for around 3 years apart from a very close lightning strike,which killed the first one.


cheers bob golding

« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 01:39:05 PM by (unknown) »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

brokengun

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 02:19:40 PM »
Stick an old CPU heat sink on there and you shouldn't have any problems with heat dissipation.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 02:19:40 PM by (unknown) »

cardamon

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Re: 3-phase rectifiers
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 11:17:33 PM »
I would also recommend checking ebay, you can typically find high current/high voltage schottkys for cheap.  For example I got these, http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/irf/249nq135.pdf for about 5 bucks each.  

I made a three phase bridge with them and some big old heatsinks and they never even get perceivably warm.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 11:17:33 PM by (unknown) »