Author Topic: Remote stage lighting laser & LED  (Read 12879 times)

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Boss

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Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« on: April 17, 2010, 09:42:57 AM »

BMN Tusas Camp Stage-lighting, Wind turbine workshop
From Brian's Morning Newsletter http://outfitnm.com/2010/04/15/bmn-tusas-camp-stage-lighting-wind-turbine-workshop

Good Morning
Yowsa, yesterday sucked in one way, but thanks to my daughter Brittany, and her boyfriend Desi, I was able to recline all day, while they;  her good good friend Vidal and his friend Adam, worked all day long on irrigating our fields. I'm talking dawn to  dusk, restoring an old guy's hope for the youth of all America because they can get the farm taken care of when it needs the work. Thank you, thank you,  thank you all.

My sciatica was killing me yesterday, making me rue my decision to wait until Friday morning at 9:00 to return to the Chiropractor. I was able to spend most of my time working on the computer, which is where all this exciting stage lighting information came from.

I'm assuming this information is what you want to hear, and not just exciting from a forced-to-sit in an armchair perspective. This certainly represents a dawn to dusk effort on my part so you know I want it to mean something. 

So hold on to your seat and enjoy the ride.
I don't know if I mentioned that we were considering buying rope lights to brighten up the stage for the Tusas Reunion Camp. I ran the numbers over and over and it just wasn't coming out favorably for even  the more expensive LED rope lights.

Yes, rope lights are awesome looking, but there is a downside, it only comes in 150 foot rolls as shown above. Calculating  power consumption  was simple. The specs declare there is 12 bright LEDs per foot, power consumption is .8 watts per foot, one simply multiplies feet times watts per foot to get 120 watts, then divide this by the voltage to get the current drain on our battery power system of 10 amps. Now don't get me wrong LED rope lights are way more cost effective to operate than the incandescent equivalent, which draw 3 watts per foot, which comes out to a whopping 450 watts  at 150 feet.  No way  Jose.  Just in case you are wondering if these numbers reflect favorably on your Christmas light usage, all I can say is be thankful we only use X-mas lights a few weeks out of the year.

I needed to switch gears, and give up on the rope lighting idea, no matter how ingrained I already had it in my head. 
I still have a lot to discuss, as I was on my ass all day, researching if you will, the awe inspiring world of stage lighting effects. Being a major bells and whistles man I find myself gazing rearward at concerts, often just as dazzled by the light show as the music, wondering how the effects were accomplished. Sure anyone that looked could see the workers in the mixing booth sliding buttons and fiddling with dials. With my electronics background I was no different than the rest of the audience, except I suspected I was one of the few checking it out.

So now I know what I didn't a day ago, and I have to tell you it is incredible. The technology is called DMX 512.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMX512.  You guessed it, Brian wants DMX 512 for the stage at Tusas, naw, not really, yes I do, no just kidding, honestly yes. Okay, so I'm indecisive on this, nevertheless DMX 512 is friggin cool. In my usual fashion I went surfing the ups and downs of hobby grade DMX stage lighting, amazingly there really is such a thing. I also found out there are inexpensive USB to DMX adapters for sale. http://www.opendmx.net/index.php/Open_DMX_USB There is a language to DMX lighting and I don't think  I could learn it in a month, but for some reason this stuff really impresses me.

The bottom line with stage lighting is  although the technician can be an artist, there are stage lighting devices which run on autopilot, so to speak. For example the device I have pictured above which I am convinced is perfect for Tusas, it is low power consumption, not too psychedelic, nor irritating like some, and best of all it is inexpensive at $129. This device is called Chauvet Abyss LED  One roll of LED rope light was going to set us back ~$300 and suck up power like nobody's business. So using the rope light a a guideline for power and expense budget, I feel we can do well to either stay with just the water effect of the Abyss LED or go hog-wild and buy an inexpensive laser as well.


 If you are like me and love special effects you absolutely must to watch these Youtube videos from Chauvet  Check out this one Austin linked to me.  American DJ Nucleus LED at $900 this one is out of my self-proclaimed budget, but damn, it is freaky cool

Oh my god deliver me from watching these videos so I can continue producing my morning newsletter.

Tear, rip, rend, whatever it takes, get me out of there.

Okay, so you see where I am at now with the Tusas stage lighting proposal, low power inexpensive American DJ lighting. I may buy the $129 Abyss LED tomorrow just to check it out, notice these are 12 volt power source? The stage will have 12 volts DC and 115 volts AC. I had already been looking at a circuit to limit the current to the LED rope lights for running off variable battery power, which I found at the all new axial flux wind turbine forum. http://fieldlines.com/board/ the forum run by the guys from Otherpower recently switched to the same forum software Adam setup for us over at  http://outfitnm.com/forum/ Simple Machines Forums

Anyway, sure it is obvious that Brian has gone "off again," but at least it isn't one of his conspiracy theory rants, right?  It's beautiful man.

Alrighty then, let me get onto the next subject this BMN is supposed to be about, Tusas Wind Turbine Workshop Summer 2010. Yeah, if I ever get well from this fugged up sciatica, I will be building a new wind turbine this Summer. Something Kevin and I had planned from the beginning was, Summer workshops. So far I can't seem to get Kevin interested, so unfortunately it may just be Brian. I have received  feedback already,  so I will move ahead  with the wind turbine building workshop.   If successful, perhaps this can be a annual Summer event here at Tusas.

For this first  project, my thinking is the others might be interested in approaching our wind turbine one piece at a time just as I will. I can estimate the total expense so there won't be any major surprises, but to get the project rolling I plan to buy the metal kit from OtherPower for $150 plus shipping. Those who followed  our progress last year building our  first turbine already know there weren't too many  areas that we didn't stumble through. In the end, problems became options, then  solutions in a process that I found continually interesting and enjoyable. I imagine I can bring this enjoyment to the workshop, because I believe I've shown that I love this stuff, I might be able to make you love it too.

The only obstacle we really had trouble with was financing. Thanks to Kevin for coming through or we wouldn't have our turbine in the wind, he bought all the rigging and power cables, a not unforeseen expense is the tower after the turbine is done we still need to fly it or it is just another piece of yard art.
I want to build a larger turbine. Ours is rated at 800 watts, although we have seen it put out 1200 watts in gusts. I would like to take this to the next level and build a turbine with 17 foot blades, or perhaps a 12 footer to be more reasonable, our current turbine is a 10 footer on a fifty foot tower.

Whatever I decide, I know the next turbine will be better than the last, and this is the point: Forward progress.

I actually have more for you this morning, if you can handle more information, I'll continue. Tomorrow's BMN may be very short as I have that chiropractor appointment in town at 9AM.

Sorry about the quality, you know the routine: Sun wasn't up yet, not enough light for our old camera to get a good image, still, pretty neat huh?

Anyway, I did buy the water effect LED.
The plan is to use Wooferhound's LM317T circuit http://www.reuk.co.uk/Using-The-LM317T-With-LED-Lighting.htm to protect the lights
I still like the inexpensive laser and may buy that in the following weeks.
Brian Rodgers
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wooferhound

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 10:37:47 AM »
You are talking about my profession, I do Sound & Lighting everyday and I live on DMX512. Some of the controllers we use have 4 outputs (universes) making the controller capable of 2048 channels of control. some of the robotic lighting fixtures that I operate require 30 channels of DMX to get all the functions they are capable of.

Remember that the specific lighting effects that you are talking about buying will require some Smoke or Haze in the air to get the look you see in the videos that you are watching. One band I knew would pass out cigarettes to the audience before the show to get the smoke in the air.

Here's some of my work . . .
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 10:44:35 AM by wooferhound »

Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2010, 12:20:04 PM »
Thanks man
Yeah smoke is built into out camp party

I hope this isn't too large, if it any consolation it is the small image, of the two, with the other one being an animated gif here
http://outfitnm.com/wp-content/uploads/tusas-2010-flashy.gif
Beware it is 7.5 meg
So anyway, Wooferhound, what do ya think, about using the LM713T, for these two lights?
Brian Rodgers
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Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 12:22:16 PM »
2048 devices, dude, that's awesome, so you must be one of those techies I was watchin when everyone else was wacthin the show
Brian Rodgers
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wooferhound

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2010, 01:48:58 PM »
I guess you know that fixture is an automatic light that is not controlled by DMX.
Looked at this manual http://www.chauvetlighting.com/products/manuals/Abyss_LED_UG.pdf
It shows a drawing of the light with the Universal Power Socket on it, so it is Not powered by a wallwart supply. To power it off of 12 volts running the LED with a LM317T could be done but you would need to open it up and wire the LED separately to the regulator which is rated at 1.5 amps and the LED in the Chauveit light is 1.36 amp so the LM317T would get really hot. Plus the light would come on but the rest of the electronics that control the motion and color changes would not function.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 01:52:56 PM by wooferhound »

Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 06:54:10 AM »
Yes I realise the Chauvet Abyss LED isn't DMX, my goal is for as much interesting (automatic) lighting while staying  within a extremely frugal  Watt/Hour and finance budget.   
Thanks for the PDF, I was fairly certain that this was 12volts DC, now I see that it isn't, that's okay I guess, I hooked up with my neighbor whom has a 12 volt pure-sinewave inverter which he'll sell for a couple hundred bucks.  We have eight deep cycle batteries  (Everstart DC27-6 115 Ah) for storage, I am now looking for a portable and quiet generator, to keep this bank charged  (950 AH) The bluegrass band we hired surely doesn't use a terribly grand amount of power, or at least this is my hope, the rest o the weekend we run automotive electronics; 300Watt amplifier, on a car stereo CD/USB MP3 player, the MP3 - USB player has been a godsend as far as power consumption.

This is like our 38 annual camp party. We have a killer stereo which is a good thing because it has to be loud to overcome the noise from the generator. One year we went PV powered, that was cool, but we no longer have those old Solex panels, so here is my boggle at present: We've never charged batteries off the 12 volt output from a portable generator. I do not know, and to date haven't been able to discern from the manufacturer's literature  what kind of output the 12 volt plug has, surely the rated watts of the generator isn't there, that would be cool, but I'm not counting on it. Another thing, is what is the 12 volt outlet jack on a generator called, and is it universal, rated by amp capacity like AC receptacles? 

I've been reading generator reviews and it sounds like the Generac brand is a pretty good bang for the buck.

http://www.generac.com/Portables/XP/Products/XP4000/ 

Now as I preview the spec sheets from Generec  12 volt output isn't included on any models I looked at. I guess I have to go back to the idea of charging the batteries with a 50 amp battery charger, which has a 15 amp plug so it ought to run off the cheapest 4000watt genset I can find.
Funny just as I see a possible  need for the 12 volt genset output it all but disappears.
What type of  portable generator (not Listers) of members here use to top off  battery backs on no-wind days?



Brian Rodgers
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Volvo farmer

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 08:39:07 AM »
Quote from: Boss

 I am now looking for a portable and quiet generator, to keep this bank charged 



If you want quiet, check out those Honda EU series. I have literally stood right next to one and held a normal conversation with a person. They ain't cheap, but then nothing really good ever is.

The EU1000 will charge 8A at 12VDC... and it runs hours and hours on a gallon of gas.  If that's not big enough, a EU2000 would probably work, and you could rent one for the weekend if you don't have an extra $1500 kicking around  :)
Less bark, more wag.

Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2010, 09:04:31 AM »
renting may be a solution, thanks for the info VF
Brian Rodgers
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ghurd

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2010, 09:06:44 AM »
They ain't cheap, but then nothing really good ever is.

Wow.  Not cheap!

A few houses down had a lawn company cut the grass.
They had a huge (like a decent chain saw sized motor) gas weed whacker.  Not much louder than an electric weed whacker.  Could not hear it idle from ~125' away.  Must have been 4-stroke?  I don't even recall what color it was.
That thing connected to a conversion, DC motor, etc, would have made a pretty decent battery charger.
G-
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Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2010, 09:23:14 AM »
So Glen you are suggesting building a battery charger instead of buying a genset? I love this place
I had pondered buying a 24 volt alternator for charging our home battery bank,the same little engine could run one or the other alternator (12 volt for the remote stage) Any idea what engine that was Glen?
 
Brian Rodgers
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ghurd

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2010, 10:32:12 AM »
I figured it fell under-
"What type of  portable generator (not Listers) of members here use to top off  battery backs on no-wind No SUN days?"
I use a Toyota Tacoma and jumper cables.   :'(
It is portable and quiet.   :-\

Build one?  Sure.  Why not.  My line of thinking...
Mostly you need a 12V battery charger, and it does not need to be huge because the batteries will supply the bursts of power.
Do not need 120VAC, because the AC is from an inverter (?).
It will not get a lot of use (?).
If 8A at 12V is sufficient, seems like $1000 is pretty pricey.  $125 / amp!
Seems like it would only take a small quiet motor, some type of alternator, and a few "A-Dapter Kits".

I was going to do it with a homeowner grade 2-stroke weed whacker motor (guy on ebay sells them for R/C airplanes for around $25 with shipping).
Would only get used a couple hours at a time, maybe 4-6 times a year (in 2 months).
Changed my mind after imagining myself at the Grainger counter spending $250 on adapters to fit adapters, to fit more adapters.  The Tacoma seems more sensible about then.  More machine shop than I have could fit things together pretty easy.
Even spent time contemplating a battery voltage based automatic variable throttle control, which would end up being a homebrew about the same as the Honda.
G-
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Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 01:26:50 PM »
Ah,yes, the old adapter on a adapter syndrome.
Being a long time biodiesel brewer I lean toward anything that burns my brew, hence I'm currently looking at a little single cylinder diesel engine on Ebay, which is currently inexpensive, but probably won't stay that way, then I'll bail

Brian Rodgers
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kurt

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 09:42:55 PM »
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-6HP-Diesel-Engine-Recoil-Start-Tractor-6-HP_W0QQitemZ170469078317QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27b0bfb52d

3600 rpm air cooled. so not gonna run forever like a real diesel.  its $430 shipped not gonna find any other kind of diesel for that price and you slap a car alternator on it it will make a nice charger for your battery bank.   

frackers

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2010, 10:24:37 PM »
You are talking about my profession, I do Sound & Lighting everyday and I live on DMX512. Some of the controllers we use have 4 outputs (universes) making the controller capable of 2048 channels of control. some of the robotic lighting fixtures that I operate require 30 channels of DMX to get all the functions they are capable of.

I wonder if you have used some of my work then - I used to work for Strand Lighting. Can't remember how many channels they had at Frisco opera house but the dimmer monitor stuff I did had to check the current on every circuit several times a second to allow standby lights to be brought in automatically if a bulb blew. Interesting calibrating the load to dimmer level as bulbs are not linear!! Not surprisingly, I never got the test rack up to its full 0.5 megawatt load in the development workshop!! As with many live venues, everything was duplicated - the main console operated with a hot standby console that could take over in 60mS in the case of a failure, 2048 channels updated every 30mS for smooth transitions from one cue point to the next.

Ah those were the days (we're talking about 15 years ago!) ....
Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2010, 10:39:02 PM »
I wonder if you have used some of my work then - I used to work for Strand Lighting.
Ah those were the days (we're talking about 15 years ago!) ....


Oh Yes , , , I have worked with a lot of Strand gear, the Broadway shows come through with a lot of Strand stuff.
The 2200 seat theater that I work in is more of a museum as far as lighting is concerned, but we have a large number of Strand lighting fixtures.

Boss

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Re: Remote stage lighting laser & LED
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 08:52:02 AM »
Currently I am immobilised with sciatica, hence the high volume of posts lately, it totally blows, because no work means no cash, I had to watch for the first time as a item on Ebay went down to the wire and if I had the money and could visualise through pain and pain killers how I was going to get the little Chungfa  one cylinder engine from Virginia to New Mexico I possibly could have won the bid, or at least bid. The new 5 hp diesel engine sold for $287.50, sigh, I am trying not to be depressed by everything this morning
Feeling a little "had done"
  I got a date with a chiropractor, my third, shortly
 
Brian Rodgers
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