Author Topic: was at the Ag supply store today and scored some outrageous magnet rotors  (Read 3861 times)

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willib

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I was gonna buy two pillow block bearings till i saw some tiller blades
we are talking 20" in dia. and 1/4 inch thick
 i couldn't use the whole 20" if wanted to because they are sort of sharpened to a point, but i could use at least 18 in dia. if i wanted too.
The best part was they were only $7.50 each !!
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Tritium

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Those sound like coulter disk.

Thurmond

defed

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i can't say i've seen a coulter at 1/4" thick, but maybe they just don't seem like it because of the taper on the edge.  i'll have to check it out next time i'm there.

TomW

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Aren't these things "cupped"? Maybe I am thinking of something else?

Seems that would be a gotcha?

Just curious.

Tom

freejuice

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Is that the same as a "Disc Harrow"? I'm far from a farmer ...but  most I've seen are cupped too.
 But a quick search on EBay gave me this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shoup-SH11306-Disc-Harrow-Blade-15-Dia-Lot-3-USED-/220609522824?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335d5a2c88

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shoup-SH11306-10077-Disc-Harrow-Blades-Lot-2-USED-/220609523160?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335d5a2dd8
 It's hard to tell the thickness and if they are cupped. But I would suspect they are made from something slightly, or at least wear resistant, like heat treated 4140.

You would probably have to draw or temper them back with a torch to modify the center holes. If you buy them from the AG store, take the corner of a file and try to file a small notch into them with 2-3 strokes, if it cuts relatively easy then you are good to go, but if the file "screeches" and files the metal with reluctantcy, its probably heat treated 4140 which ends up being about 54-55 on the RC hardness scale... or some other steel on the mid range carbon level (which can be stamped out, flame hardened and oil quenched so as to hit those production numbers.)
 
Even if you draw them back, they can still be difficult to machine afterwards, they ofter wont fuly revert back to theirl pre-hardened soft state.

Use a cheap magnet, heat the plates up, until about a dull red and increasethe heat range from there if need be but periodically check for magnetism,  the moment it is at its hardening state or full tempering state it will loose it magnetism instantly..then let them cool off slowly. Better yet,  temper them even slower by going "colonial" on the metal, build a good hot  fire, toss the discs in there and mound the coals up over them, and let everything burn down slowly and cool off naturally.
If that does not work, then you will have to break out the carbide cutting tools


« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 08:54:13 AM by freejuice »

willib

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Aren't these things "cupped"? Maybe I am thinking of something else?

Seems that would be a gotcha?

Just curious.

Tom
Some of them are cupped ,some have ridges, and some are flat
the ones i found are flat
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zap

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Nice find willib and thanks for the heads up.

The only thing that's kept me from building a dual axial rotor was... well... the rotors ::)
A disc harrow never even occurred to me and there's plenty close by.

tanner0441

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Hi

After you have had them red hot unevenly or in a fire how flat will they be when they cool back down??

Brian

willib

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As you can see they are larger than i thought , i looked at so many yesterday..

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad129/rorobee_2010/100_0744.jpg

They are magnetic, and kind of look like the motorcycle brake rotor metal , shiny even in the middle area  where i scraped some of the paint off..

They have a 4" hole in the center  and 5 holes on what  i believe is a 5.5" bolt circle diameter.

I might have considered a smaller diameter set but they were thinner as well so..


« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 09:32:04 PM by willib »
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freejuice

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Hi Brian,
 If you are going to use disc harrows too...
 If there is any warpage it will because there was stresses in the metal during production, such as stamping them out, or the metal being bowed or warped slightly from the production mill, usually after heat treating is when it shows up...for example 0-1 steel will warp easily if it contains internal stresses.
 Usually annealing them or tempering them most often does not alter a bow or warp in the metal...however as you approach its hardening temperature it can "awaken" those internal stresses. However on your end the discs are probably already heat treated and you don't need to worry too much about how much they will warp....in  other words, if the discs you have are already heat treated, the damage has already been done so to speak in regards to warping.
 But to soften the metal  I would first try heating them up to a dull red but not a cherry red color...somewhere in between will be fine. If you go by the "colonial" method, just build a good hot fire, with plenty of hot coals, place the discs in there flat , pile some more wood on them and let the thing burn good and hot, keep working the coals onto and under the metal discs, even pile them on top, ...a good garden rake is good tool for this...periodically rake back the hot coals and look at the color of the discs, if they are a dull red in ambient light then you are probably good to go...just mound some more coals on top and let the whole thing burn down nice and slow until you can fish them out by hand It important that you don't rush the cooling process....no buckets of water or oil or anything like that! Just let it cool off slowly.


I'm basing this on that the metal is something like 4140, or another steel which is heat treated by flame and oil or water/brine  quenched. These types of steels are usually what is encountered in these types of situations... they easier to manufacture and produce than more expensive tool steels. With that in mind am I 100 percent sure you have an oil or water quenched metal in your hands? No I'm not, but I could venture a guess with 90 % certainty. However if I'm wrong  about the metal type, you will not do any damage to it by drawing or tempering the metal back by the above method...it will either soften up or will not...but you have nothing to loose by trying.
 Try to keep the color and heat as even as possible...steels such as 0-1 will warp when quenched if heated uneven, but in the above temering method you are bring them upt to a drawing tempreture slowly and evenly and with out the rapid quenching or hardening phase to worry about it warping
 All the best,
 Gavin
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 11:12:34 PM by freejuice »

windy

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If they are not thick enough, would it work to stack two of them together to bring the thickness to 1/2 inch thick? Or does the metal have to be a solid 1/2 inch to work for a rotor. You could torch holes through one of the plates and re weld towards the outside to hold them together.

windy
I don't claim to be an electrical engineer. I just know enough to keep from getting electrocuted.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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If they are not thick enough, would it work to stack two of them together to bring the thickness to 1/2 inch thick? Or does the metal have to be a solid 1/2 inch to work for a rotor. You could torch holes through one of the plates and re weld towards the outside to hold them together.

windy

A thin gap shouldn't be a problem.  (Worst case it would add to the "air gap" - but by the time you're through the first quarter inch of steel the amount of field "seeing" the extra gap will be a small percentage of the total field.)

bob golding

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not wanting to discourge you at all, but how much do these things cost? by the time you have finished heat treating them and sticking 2 of them together,unless the stud holes are already the right size and  in the right place it might be cheaper and a lot easier to get some bog standard steel plate laser cut. i know  price isn't always the reason to do something,but in this case it might be. good luck and i hope it works if you do go ahead.
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

Tritium

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Bob from the first post:

i couldn't use the whole 20" if wanted to because they are sort of sharpened to a point, but i could use at least 18 in dia. if i wanted too.
The best part was they were only $7.50 each !!


Thurmond

bob golding

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arr yes i see the attraction now. ;D
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

jlt

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I think they should work A is with out taking the temper out of them.all you need to find is a hub that will fit the center hole. You can drill the hub if the disc's are too hard. After they are mounted use a 9" grinder to flatten the sharp edge. I built a 8ft machine using 13" automatic transmission flex plates and it is still working after 5 years. They are less than 1/8" thick. you may have to run slightly larger  air gap.

tecker

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That's high carbon hardened steel . If they aren't true  you'll have to live with a little warp . Ccut them with a saber saw not a torch . That will take a while and maybe a pack of blades but you'll get there . The good part is those won't flex with the magnet pull and some resin .
Matching the hub is a fairly easy task . The trailer hubs look simulator

willib

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They really are not sharp at the edge . Maybe a 16th of an inch
and I ran a file over them at the edge , it seemed to cut nicely  so they should be very machinable as is.
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