Author Topic: My 17' Turbine so far  (Read 61808 times)

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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2011, 11:01:36 PM »
Getting closer.  Just some wiring left.

SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2011, 11:47:46 PM »
This is surely a sweet moment.  Thanks for letting us share it with you!
Thinking positive thoughts "up, up, up" on your behalf   :D
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 10:25:19 PM »
It's up.  I live near a wind farm, so I get good wind.  Tonight since the mill is up, 0 no wind.  Oh well.  Waiting on wind

vawtwindy

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2011, 12:20:33 AM »
marvellous nekit.

endless hurdles.

jarrod9155

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2011, 07:20:25 AM »
What does your mppt table look like for the aurora ? I would love to compare

birdhouse

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2011, 02:20:30 PM »
nekit-
i just put up my first mill, and am pretty stoked!  but holy lordy, you went the full nine yards!

so, id like to say congrats!  that's a beautifully designed well thought out out machine with a ton of attention to detail!!!  your tower looks fabulous as well!  keep up the good work! 

oh, and i love the adjustable furling angle hinge holes!  brilliant!

adam

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2011, 05:36:34 PM »
Here's a video of it running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWc0X5YSNnU

I'm still playing with the MPPT table.  I have an initial one, but I think it will take lots of tweaking to get it right.  I'll post it when I feel it's working well.

I have it set to furl pretty early.  Had some winds today and it was furling at about 20mph.  I can change the tail angle or add lead shot to the ends of the tail.  The last 12" of both of the tail tubes are removable and have screw in caps to add lead shot.  I think I'm going to try the lead first.

I still have to finish up the dump load cells, so I've been shutting it down if it gets too windy.

Thanks for all the compliments.

Boss

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2011, 08:28:00 PM »
Howdy and great looking rig
What kind of output are you seeing in those winds?
Brian Rodgers
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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2011, 09:43:46 AM »
Here's some better boring video of my turbine spinning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i6kCV6L73w

So far in probably 4 mph winds I'm seeing 150-200W output.  It did get up to about 2000W in roughly 18mph winds yesterday.  Lots of tuning still to do.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2011, 10:01:32 AM »
On another note.  The building inspector for the county came out and did the final inspection yesterday.  This is the first turbine in the county and they just enacted the regulations on them last year.  They were pretty clueless on what to look for.  The first inspection consisted of looking at the hole for the foundations and the the final inspection they just came out and looked at it.  The inspector said "My boss said go out and make sure it is bolted down good", didn't look at any of the electrical or ask any questions.

I think one of the main purpose of the proccess is to give the neighbors a chance to be heard if they object, during a variance hearing.

Anyway I thought some of you might enjoy my inspection process.

bj

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2011, 08:03:23 AM »
   Nekit--glad the inspection was painless.   Watching a new turbine is so boring I did it about ten times.
Good luck with the tweaking'
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj
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Boss

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2011, 08:35:40 AM »
Let's hope all small homemade wind turbines integrate with such ease, congrats
Brian Rodgers
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Boss

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2011, 08:36:30 AM »
Oh BTW where are you located, generally
Brian Rodgers
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SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2011, 05:48:40 PM »
Hi Nekit.  Isn't it great to see it come alive!

Your 2nd video catches some funny noises and I bet you're curious about that.
Two things:  Is there any play in the yaw mount / can rock it slightly on the tower stub?  If so then vibrations from various sources can resonate with this freedom of motion.  It's not fatal and not even likely to be a problem, but you may see some wear on parts after a few years.  Since you have a rather complex mounting system, I would be concerned about other parts being loose (tail hinge).  It looks like your tower is a jiffy to lower so this might be easy to inspect.  Considering how thoroughly everything's been done on your system, I rather doubt anything was missed.

The other thing is the electrical start-up conditions in the electrical system.  Since you've got an Aurora I don't know if this is 100% applicable.  Mine makes the same noise at cut-in speed and it seems to be caused by rapidly opening and closing the rectifiers.  Let me tell you about why (I believe) it makes noise on my system, and you tell me if that is relevant on an Aurora grid-tie.  The AC voltage increases with speed, and at cut-in, only the peaks are high enough to open the diodes.  So you get very short "ON" periods where the diodes let current flow on any given phase briefly.  The momentary ON is a higher load (torque) than the intervening times before the next phase voltage rises enough to switch ON.  These torque pulses cause a similar growling noise.  On mine, I find it is louder in Star than when phases are individually rectified, but the noise is there just the same.  Only at cut-in. 

Hope that helps!

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2011, 08:58:49 AM »
Hi Nekit.  Isn't it great to see it come alive!

Your 2nd video catches some funny noises and I bet you're curious about that.
Two things:  Is there any play in the yaw mount / can rock it slightly on the tower stub?  If so then vibrations from various sources can resonate with this freedom of motion.  It's not fatal and not even likely to be a problem, but you may see some wear on parts after a few years.  Since you have a rather complex mounting system, I would be concerned about other parts being loose (tail hinge).  It looks like your tower is a jiffy to lower so this might be easy to inspect.  Considering how thoroughly everything's been done on your system, I rather doubt anything was missed.

The other thing is the electrical start-up conditions in the electrical system.  Since you've got an Aurora I don't know if this is 100% applicable.  Mine makes the same noise at cut-in speed and it seems to be caused by rapidly opening and closing the rectifiers.  Let me tell you about why (I believe) it makes noise on my system, and you tell me if that is relevant on an Aurora grid-tie.  The AC voltage increases with speed, and at cut-in, only the peaks are high enough to open the diodes.  So you get very short "ON" periods where the diodes let current flow on any given phase briefly.  The momentary ON is a higher load (torque) than the intervening times before the next phase voltage rises enough to switch ON.  These torque pulses cause a similar growling noise.  On mine, I find it is louder in Star than when phases are individually rectified, but the noise is there just the same.  Only at cut-in. 

Hope that helps!



Thanks for the info.  I think your on track with the noise issue, but I think it's the aluminium cover that I made that goes over the slip rings.  I'm going to bring it down and add some rubber and some other tweaks.

As for the startup, that makes sense.  I'll have to watch it and see if that's the case over time.

Thanks

halfcrazy

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2011, 06:13:37 AM »
My neighbors 17 ft machine was doing the same growling noise at cut in on the Classic. We bumped the first two steps of the power curve up a few volts and that made it cut in a little later maybe 1mph? This basically eliminated the growl. We where originally trying to cut in around 4-4.5 mph I think that may just be to low now it is closer to 6 mph.  I have talked to people that have had issues with towers resonating at a certain power output say 1000 watts and they did the same thing with the Aurora inverter they tuned around that spot by making one step a little high and letting the turbine free up a bit there.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2011, 10:17:35 PM »
Here's the power curve I am currently using.  This was compiled with the help of Rob Becker's info and some math crunching on my own.  Seems to be working ok so far, but winds have been pretty low since my turbine went up.  Time will tell.
Wind mph   Wind (m/s)   Watts Rotor   RPM   Hz      Unloaded AC   I Phase   Loaded AC   P Loss   P Out   Eff     DC Volts MPPT   Watts Out MPPT

4.48   2.0   30   44   5.9   58   0.3   57   0   30   99%   75    0
5.6   2.5   59   55   7.4   72   0.5   71   1   58   99%   93   30
6.72   3.0   102   66   8.9   86   0.7   85   2   101   98%   111   81
7.84   3.5   163   77   10.3   101   0.9   99   3   159   98%   129   151
8.96   4.0   243   89   11.8   115   1.2   113   5   237   98%   147   245
10.08   4.5   346   100   13.3   129   1.5   126   9   337   98%   165   365
11.2   5.0   474   111   14.8   144   1.9   140   13   461   97%   183   513
13.44   6.0   819   133   17.7   173   2.7   167   27   792   97%   219   911
15.68   7.0   1301   155   20.7   201   3.7   194   50   1251   96%   254   1461
17.92   8.0   1942   177   23.6   230   4.9   220   86   1856   96%   288   2188
20.16   9.0   2765   199   26.6   259   6.2   246   137   2628   95%   322   3114
22.4   10.0   3793   221   29.5   288   7.6   272   209   3584   94%   356   4261
24.64   11.0   5049   243   32.5   316   9.2   297   306   4743   94%   389   5651
25.536   11.4   5620   252   33.6   328   9.9   307   353   5267   94%   403   6280

Sorry Chart gets a little messed up when posted.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 10:20:08 PM by nekit »

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2011, 06:40:58 AM »
Built a dump load for the turbine.  It's 8000W and currently configured 34ohm discharging the 3 phase AC.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:50:48 PM by JW »

kitestrings

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2011, 10:18:50 AM »
nekit,

Congrat's on the progress to date.

Tell us more about the dump load.  Is it single stage?  All -or nothing, or PWM?  Just curious how it is wired, configured and controlled.  Also the effect on the turbine when it is fully loaded.  I generally like the idea of the dump load being external as you've done here (as apposed to shorting the windings), but tht'a just my bias.

Best of luck and keep posting your experiences with it.  Looks great.

~kitestrings

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2011, 11:28:12 AM »
nekit,

Congrat's on the progress to date.

Tell us more about the dump load.  Is it single stage?  All -or nothing, or PWM?  Just curious how it is wired, configured and controlled.  Also the effect on the turbine when it is fully loaded.  I generally like the idea of the dump load being external as you've done here (as apposed to shorting the windings), but tht'a just my bias.

Best of luck and keep posting your experiences with it.  Looks great.

~kitestrings
The dumpload is controlled by the Omron voltage sensing relay and a NC relay.  I think I have the spec earlier in this thread.  With this setup I can have the dumpload come on at a preset voltage level any where from 100-600V.  I currently have it set to dump a 410 V AC, which should limit the DC to less than 550 VDC.  With the NC relay that the Omron voltage sensing relay controls, the dumpload also comes on if the grid fails and the inverter shuts down.

I currently have it setup to disconnect the inverter when the dumpload comes on.  The advantage of this is that it keeps the inverter safe from over voltage.  The disadvantage is you aren't keeping the inverter making power during the high voltage events and when the inverter comes back online it takes a few seconds for the inverter to connect to the turbine.  I think I would rather be safe and disconnect the inverter.

The dumpload is a work in progress. The resistors are 8 resistors that I was able to pickup on ebay.  They are each Ohmite 1000W 6.8ohm Power-rib edge wound resistors.  I originally had it wired with a bridge rectifier in the dumload circuit, so the resistors were wire in one large loop.  They were wired in series between the - and + of the bridge rectifier for a total resistance of 54.4ohms and 8000W capacity.  I then changed my mind and eliminated the bridge rectiifier and had the 3 phase AC going to the resistors.  With this setup I have one less part to break and the resistor are wired closer to what I think seems to control the turbine better at 34ohms.

   <Res> -T-  <Res>
^           ^             ^
R           R             R
e           e             e
s           s              s
                     

I           I              I

^          ^            ^
R           R            R
e           e             e
s           s             s

I           I             I

If I'm thinking correctly each leg should take the path of least resistance and go through 5 resistor for a total of 34 ohms each.

This is totally new stuff and will probably be modified.  I've only had winds to get the gen up to 250V and when I've turned on the dumpload it seems to control the turbine nicely.  It doesn't grind it to a hault, but slows it nicely.  We'll see what it does at higher volts.

SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2011, 01:23:44 AM »
Eight resistors, on an AC 3-phase configuration...  Are the phases of the dump load balanced equally?

Oh maybe it doesn't matter at all.  One phase will have a bit more current than the others...  by 50% maybe?  Have you measured the current in the dump load phases?

Yeah when buying from e-bay it's hard to find the right quantity of things - some times too many sometimes not enough.

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2011, 09:53:46 AM »
Eight resistors, on an AC 3-phase configuration...  Are the phases of the dump load balanced equally?

Oh maybe it doesn't matter at all.  One phase will have a bit more current than the others...  by 50% maybe?  Have you measured the current in the dump load phases?

Yeah when buying from e-bay it's hard to find the right quantity of things - some times too many sometimes not enough.


I've been worried about this too.  I think I'm going to change this to equalize things out.  When I purchased the resistors it was a group of eight.  At first I thought the unequal legs wouldn't matter that much, but it's bothering me.

I can remove 2 resistors for 2 in each leg, 6 total and 27.2 ohms.  This is a little more resistance than I wanted, but not sure and close to the limit of the wattage of the resistors.

I could buy 1 more resistor for 3 in each leg, total 9 for 40.8 ohms.  Not sure if this will be too soft (not enough resistance) in high winds to keep the gen under control.

Any thoughts everyone?

kitestrings

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2011, 04:10:21 PM »
nekit,

We've have the same Omron (24V) sensing relay, and plan to use it as Rob Becker has described for high voltage fail-safe protection of our controllers.  Like you, I'd prefer to load to a resistor bank rather than shorting the windings (though we may incorporate for other conditions), so I'm interested in your results.

Others may be able to help more, but you might fiind this site useful for size and configuration of your load bank:

http://www.watlow.com/reference/tools/3phase.cfm

example - if you had six of the resistors wired in wye (pairs in series), at 250V I believe you'd dissipate about 4 kW, and the balanced load would be roughly 70% of the rated capacity of the individual resistors.  Other combinations may fit your design closer, but I think this is where I'd start.

Good luck,

~kitestrings

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »
Here's my curent configuration on my dump load.  Seems to be a nice load on the turbine and should hold up.

I puchased another resistor.  I have 3 resistors  on each leg of the of the 3 phase for a total of 9 resistors.  2 resistors are in parallel and 1 is in series on each leg.  Has 27.2ohms across each leg, which seems about right.  We'll see.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2011, 01:24:59 PM »
I posted a video of tower going up, if interested.  I got it down to about 5 min up or down with one person.

Here's the link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ET9iJ8vJO0

bj

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2011, 04:19:39 PM »
   5 minutes is impressive.   All the attention you paid to the details is paying off.
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj
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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2011, 04:04:59 PM »
So what's your tower like when it gets near vertical, and the balance passes over center?  In the video it seems only a bit of handling is required to bring it gently down by hand.

(Always interested in tower stuff, you know that).

As for the resistors, symmetry is pretty, but overall if the resistance is low enough to effectively limit speed, doesn't overload other components, and the resistors themselves can take the heat, then you've got it, whethe it's symmetrical or not.   Long term reliability and ability to troubleshoot problems in the future do benefit from having balanced phases, so it's not all theoretical.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2011, 09:21:35 PM »
So what's your tower like when it gets near vertical, and the balance passes over center?  In the video it seems only a bit of handling is required to bring it gently down by hand.

(Always interested in tower stuff, you know that).

As for the resistors, symmetry is pretty, but overall if the resistance is low enough to effectively limit speed, doesn't overload other components, and the resistors themselves can take the heat, then you've got it, whethe it's symmetrical or not.   Long term reliability and ability to troubleshoot problems in the future do benefit from having balanced phases, so it's not all theoretical.

SparWeb
The first couple times I went up and down with the tower I had a tractor with a bucket to control the last bit of travel going up and at the beginning going down.  After a few times I noticed that it didn't have much force behind it in this  last part and just tried it by hand.  I sure this won't work on some tower, but the balance on mine seems to work out.

To start it down I just put some slack in the winch cable and pick up on the gin plow to about 6', then it goes on it's own.  Going down I just have to slow by hand the last 6' and then clamp it down.

frackers

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2011, 10:39:13 PM »
I've got a spare bit of HT cable wrapped round a 40kg paving slab that I hang from the trailing guy wire (I've got a turnbuckle in just the right place!!) - that provides enough bias both up and down to prevent any bumps  ;)

Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2011, 09:57:26 PM »
To start it down I just put some slack in the winch cable and pick up on the gin plow to about 6', then it goes on it's own.  Going down I just have to slow by hand the last 6' and then clamp it down.

Yup, that's what I thought.  Nice feeling isn't it?  800 pounds of steel pivoting under your finger...    8)
One of the addictions that TomW keeps mentioning. 
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2011, 10:04:17 PM »
Here's my curent configuration on my dump load.  Seems to be a nice load on the turbine and should hold up.

I puchased another resistor.  I have 3 resistors  on each leg of the of the 3 phase for a total of 9 resistors.  2 resistors are in parallel and 1 is in series on each leg.  Has 27.2ohms across each leg, which seems about right.  We'll see.

Correction this has 20.4 ohms between legs.  I forgot the resistors in parallel 1/2 the resistance of them.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2011, 09:53:47 AM »
Thought I'd give an update on my turbine.  Seems to be working good so far.  Still fine tuning, but has been up and running for almost 4 months now.  Has survived 40+ mph gusts.

One update I've been meaning to post is a design change.  In my pictures you may notice I had a hand cable winch that was running up the tower and designed to pull in the tail if needed.  Well it didn't work.  I didn't have enough leverage and was pulling on the tail too close to the pivot.  The winch and cable didn't have enough strength and the cable had too many bends to pull in the tail.  Over the past several months I have shut down the turbine in some fairly high winds(40mph) with just the shorting brake and it seems to work fine.  At this point I don't see a need to redesign the tail winch system.  Just an FYI.  I din't want anyone to copy my bad design.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2011, 10:37:45 PM »
Here are some figures I posted on another thread on my turbine production a few weeks ago.  Last week I had my best day yet.  Averaged 12 mph wind for the day and produced 21 kwh for the day.

"  I have a 17' grid tied with an Aurora inverter that collects data.  Over the past several months I've seen a average daily production of 6kwh in mostly low wind days.  The past few days I've been getting an average daily wind in the 9-10mph range and have been getting 14kwh per day.  This is an average wind for 24hrs and have seen gusts as high as 30mph.  I have a Davis Weather station mounted at 40' that collects wind data.

I currently have the turbine set to furl early.  It seems to start to furl about 10mph and be furled at about 20mph.  So far I've only seen a max of 2500W out of the inverter, so I may adjust the furling up higher."