Author Topic: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage  (Read 63483 times)

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ghurd

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel mileage
« Reply #99 on: April 27, 2011, 01:50:22 AM »
Spins for ever, unlike a normal bicycle.  The power sucked by the bearings and sprags adds up.

It is something people do not put enough faith into.

Bro-in-law borrowed our entry-level Giant (brand) bike for an organized touring ride.
Wife used her Cannondale with higher-end Campy parts.
Bro-in-law was pedaling down hill to keep up, while the wife was riding the brakes to save him some effort.
G-
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2011, 08:46:24 PM »
As I said in my supermileage thread, I calculated the torque from the bicycle freewheel, and came out to 0.18 in*lbs or about 135 Joules per mile.  This is a rather small number (1-2% of energy lost), but it could be higher if it is not greased well or something has gone wrong.  This was also with the steel bearings with seals (good ones).

And for the body part of the thread:

A walk around of the body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v71qYfvcudw






Ground clearance was down to 1/4" after the driver sat down.  I think the tires need some more air and maybe some more of the body needs to be cut.

zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #101 on: May 11, 2011, 12:29:41 AM »
Looks nice... looks slippery 8)  I want my truck to look like that!

What will the windshield and windows be made of?

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #102 on: May 11, 2011, 09:21:41 AM »
I agree, very nice slick looking machine.
The paint still looks wet  ;).
I do have to say though , my eye is drawn to some body molding "bumps" that might cause problems for it to reach the next plateau of hyper-mileage-ing.
Has anyone given it the ride test yet?
Bruce S
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2011, 09:25:34 PM »
Zap - The windshield will be 1/16" thick plexiglass.  Putting the windows in will be a two step process, starting with some clear plexi-glass tabs on the inside in which we will lay the window on top of.  The hard part will be getting the window cut to the right shape.  It was already attempted 2 months ago, but it off by 1/8" in a few spots.  Good thing we bought the 4'x8' sheet.

Quote
Has anyone given it the ride test yet?
My brother got pushed in it for a few feet.  Unfortunately, the ground clearance went from 1/2" to 1/4".  This made the pebbles on the driveway seem like 12" boulders.

He does say that the seat it supremely soft and comfy.

Quote
Looks nice... looks slippery Cool  I want my truck to look like that!
I need to remember to bring the turtle wax tomorrow.

Quote
I do have to say though , my eye is drawn to some body molding "bumps" that might cause problems for it to reach the next plateau of hyper-mileage-ing.
Yup.  A really big CNC router would of helped... Also the paint brings out the flaws.  Also 37 different patch jobs didn't help either.

Norm

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2011, 12:18:31 PM »
A mental picture of 2 big truck type size mirrors sticking out both sides
so you can see what is getting ready to run over you ?
LOL !
Looks nice !
Norm.
(over here in Conneaut on the PedGen....
25 watt/hrs. to go )

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2011, 12:22:05 PM »
A mental picture of 2 big truck type size mirrors sticking out both sides
so you can see what is getting ready to run over you ?
LOL !
Looks nice !
Norm.
(over here in Conneaut on the PedGen....
25 watt/hrs. to go )
NOT ME  :o I don't want to know  :P
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Norm

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2011, 12:36:41 PM »
A mental picture of 2 big truck type size mirrors sticking out both sides
so you can see what is getting ready to run over you ?
LOL !
Looks nice !
Norm.
(over here in Conneaut on the PedGen....
25 watt/hrs. to go )
NOT ME  :o I don't want to know  :P
.....And a bystander is heard saying.....bet he never knew what hit him!
I'm getting callous...need another cup of coffee
Norm

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2011, 05:04:49 PM »
A mental picture of 2 big truck type size mirrors sticking out both sides
so you can see what is getting ready to run over you ?
LOL !
Looks nice !
Norm.
(over here in Conneaut on the PedGen....
25 watt/hrs. to go )
NOT ME  :o I don't want to know  :P
.....And a bystander is heard saying.....bet he never knew what hit him!
I'm getting callous...need another cup of coffee
Norm
Having one in the 102F weather right now Norm, but that WAS/IS funny  ;D
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2011, 07:14:41 PM »
I once had 9 cups of hot chocolate on a cruise to Bermuda  ;D

Driving a small enclosed car in 100F with no AC would be a lethal experience.  On a 75F day, our car would be 96 degrees on the inside in direct sun light.  Tinted windows were used by some of the teams in the past.

Norm

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #109 on: August 03, 2011, 09:49:03 AM »
Nix on that for me .....my working range is 60-65....Norm at rest can withstand 70....LOL  :)
Too much Hot chocolate shoots my sugar level way past what I need .
Time for coffee !
Norm.

zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2011, 09:53:50 AM »
Norm did you ever get my email on those electric scooters?

Norm

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2011, 01:00:30 PM »
Yes I did Zap....been too busy with my DIY E-bike....
not yet a reality but keeps me going despite aches and pains
from old age....which I try to deny.
Thanks for thinking of me 'tho !
Norm

taylorp035

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Copper vs Aluminum wire vs weight
« Reply #112 on: August 17, 2011, 10:23:40 PM »
I was thinking pretty hard about where I could save a gram or two in my SMV, and it donned on me that maybe aluminum wire would be better than copper.  After a quick calculation, aluminum should be 2x better for its conductivity/mass.

Any thoughts?

For reference, I plan on saving 3.4 lbs on my tires, which will increase my mpg by 20-27 mpg  (~half rolling savings and half air drag (due to the inertia of the car and the velocity^2 term in the drag equation)).  Our car probably has 5-7 lbs of wiring in it, and it could be reduced by 80% I bet.

birdhouse

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2011, 12:19:48 PM »
taylor-
copper wire is superior to aluminum in most cases, EXCEPT weight.  i say go for it in order to shave more weight.  one thing to make sure is to put anti-ox on all connections, and re-torque all connections after some time.  also, do not run the aluminum wire too tight between connections, as it expands and contracts much more than copper while max amps flow through it.  some room for it to move is required.

i'm guessing most of your wire is fairly thin #16 - #12 or maybe #10???  problem is finding thinner ALU wire.  4/0, 3/0 ect. is all over the place, but i think the thinnest i've ever seen in ALU is #4...  maybe some research will turn up sources for thinner ALU wire. 

great idea for your situation!

adam

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #114 on: August 18, 2011, 04:17:39 PM »
There are a few dozen connections that handle less than 1 amp @ 14v.  The connection to the coil and the starter motor would require 18 gauge and 12 gauge respectively.

As you hinted birdhouse, smaller gauge wire made of aluminum is hard to find, especially with insulation.  It will probably be easier to just properly size our connections with copper wire.




taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2011, 09:20:12 PM »
If anybody wants to know how how good their e-bike is in terms of efficiency, the world record for an electric car stands at 2.46 Wh/ mile.



ruddycrazy

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #116 on: November 04, 2011, 11:20:11 PM »
G'day Bruce,
                  How's this for an Ozzie trike  ;D



Powered by a 1738cc EA81 Subaru motor, who cares about fuel economy when ya butt is in the driving seat.......


Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #117 on: November 07, 2011, 11:36:06 AM »
That sure is a BUTE!!
Can I put that on my Christmas list?  ;D I'll stop by next November on our return trip from Philippines and pick it up.  ;D. Even the color is what I like!!

You build that?

 
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bj

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #118 on: November 07, 2011, 03:59:39 PM »
   Bryan:  that thing is guaranteed to put a smile on your face, no matter how bad a day it's been. :)
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj
Lamont AB Can.

ruddycrazy

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #119 on: November 07, 2011, 04:11:53 PM »
G'day Guy's,
                 Sadly it ain't my trike, I got the pic from another forum where we helped the guy convert the motor over. Originally it had a VW motor in but he reckoned it didn't have enough power. Those trikes are made over here commercially and off memory the basic model will set one back about 30K. That trike is also setup with a camper trailer and really it is the purfect baby boomers touring toy ain't it.......

Cheers Bryan

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #120 on: November 07, 2011, 04:32:32 PM »
Bryan;
Sadly I don't have 30k in US, AU, NZ, or monopoly  ;D.
It would be a nice B-boomer toy for sure.
However, locally we have a sports place I actually trust working on my toys.
Here's a pic of what I'm "discussing" ATM.

Not too bad , will certainly be harder to snatch than the 150cc scooter. AND the cool factor is better, the freedom riders here in StL like it better than my electric blue 150cc.
Ya know it bad times when low life's get to snatching scooters of all things  :o
Cheers
Bruce S
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #121 on: December 07, 2011, 12:33:16 AM »
The major problem with getting higher millage is the tires.  Since I was looking for better tires, I decided to have a look at how the world solar challenge vehicle attack the problem.  Unfortunately, it seems to be back by corporate sponsor ships and no commercially available tires.  But one could try to get their hands on some of these, since so many tires are used in this competition (they replace tires every day in a race).

These also have the benefit of having a higher load rating and a wider profile.  They are all single ply, tubeless, and radial construction.  Pressures can be north of 100 psi (the recommended values).

http://www.design-impact.org/blog/2009/08/extreme-efficiency-secrets-behind-miserly-solar-cars-part-iii-tires/

Supposedly, they run about $100 a piece, which is expensive or cheap, depending who you are talking to.  There are also special carbon fiber rims to go along with them, but they will set you back $1500 a piece....



 

taylorp035

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Human Powered Vehicle Challenge
« Reply #122 on: December 19, 2011, 06:38:33 PM »
http://www.asme.org/events/competitions/human-powered-vehicle-challenge-%28hpvc%29

Will be happening in two places (east and west).   Grove City, PA April 27-29.

I plan on going, along with a bunch of friends from school.  Should be a good showcase of different things that can help bicyclists and the pursuit of less energy hungry human transport.


Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2011, 05:21:02 PM »
Thanks for the link. I sent it on to another here who owns 2 'bent trikes and a new 2-wheeler 'bent he rode across IOWA this past summer.
Cheers
Bruce S
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Madscientist267

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2011, 08:28:52 PM »
Human powered?

Now that's just crazy talk...

They make 'em light so the batteries and gas last longer, not so I can work myself up a coronary.

Ok, so I didn't reply to just dispute power sources... LOL What I want to know is, what is a "bent" bike?

Don't they usually get thrown away when that happens? ;D

Steve

 EDIT - Nevermind, figured it out myself... Would have just nuked the post but you guys needed another reason to think I'm nuts.

Oh wait, eh, carry on then.. Hahaha
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 08:31:44 PM by Madscientist267 »
The size of the project matters not.
How much magic smoke it contains does !

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #125 on: December 20, 2011, 08:35:45 PM »
I was wondering that myself...

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #126 on: December 21, 2011, 10:26:13 AM »
I was wondering that myself...
Slang for recumbent  ;D
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REdiculous

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2012, 09:22:46 PM »
If anybody wants to know how how good their e-bike is in terms of efficiency, the world record for an electric car stands at 2.46 Wh/ mile.

Sorry, I gotta call BS. A prototype vehicle that most adults can't fit in, that's made from high end bike components and composites, is not a car.

If it's actually street legal then you have to post more about it.....that's an insanely low number....
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joestue

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2012, 04:43:31 AM »
If anybody wants to know how how good their e-bike is in terms of efficiency, the world record for an electric car stands at 2.46 Wh/ mile.

Sorry, I gotta call BS. A prototype vehicle that most adults can't fit in, that's made from high end bike components and composites, is not a car.

If it's actually street legal then you have to post more about it.....that's an insanely low number....

well the secret is.. its not street legal..

My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #129 on: January 19, 2012, 05:32:39 PM »
Quote
well the secret is.. its not street legal..

You got that right.... shell ecomarathon / supermileage vehicles are not designed to driven on normal roads.... nor are they comfortable, easy to see out of, or big enough for a 5' 9" and 140 lb driver.  And they are extremely expensive to build with components that you can't buy or need to be custom machined.  Top speeds are usually 25-30 mph, but some can hit 60 mph if geared correctly.  Oh, and not to mention that the tires are probably costing you over a $1 per minute and will only last 1-2 days of driving....   And there is no suspension, especially when you consider the high inflation pressures and carbon fiber frame.  The only upsides are that you get good to great acceleration and awesome fuel mileage when the car is working right.

But, you could make a car that gets 1000 mpg that is comfortable for $xxx with fiber glass and some aluminum....  Our car that got 1011 mpg would be around 4-5 Wh/mile considering a 60% on the battery+electric motor+gearbox.  And you could do that on $30 tires that last for much longer.


If the 2.46 Wh/mile sounds low.......... I bet if the Europeans actually tried hard to do so, they could get that number down to close to 0.5-0.6 Wh/mile.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 05:54:49 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #130 on: August 04, 2012, 10:55:31 PM »
To update my last post on the number of watt hours / mile for the world's best car.... Microjoule from france in electric form pulled off a run close to 5000 Joules / mile or 1.4 Wh/mile.  My supermileage car uses about 7500 joules/mile to over come air drag and tire drag... but I was using a <10% engine to make those 7500 joules of foward motion.