Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.

[tanner0441]

Hi

Read that statement by Fabricator again it explanes why you need magnets and copper.

Everytime one magnet passes one coil you get one bit of electricity. put lots of magnets to pass lots of coils you get lots of bits of electricity. So 8 magnets on a rotor will give more bits of electricity at 100 RPM than 4 magnets. Once you appreciate that fact you can then learn the relationship between the magnet spacings and the coil placement, a bit like when you change the timing belt on your car, the valves and pistons have to be in sync or the valve going down will meet the piston coming up. The magnets need to pass the coils at the right time to get all the bits of electricity to join up at the right time.

This is very simplified and the coils, magnets, and blades all need to be designed to function together. which it is why it is better to make a turbine from plans drawn up by someone else who knows how to do the sums, and can tell you what your turbine will do in a given wind condition. Then you can find out about battery state of charge, charge controllers, and dump loads.

Stick at it...

Brian.

[fabricator]

There is no correlation between weight of alternator and the wind zone classification, actually that's not completely true, it is actually the inverse of what you believe (for God knows what reason) the turbine rotor (blades) is simply a collector, the larger the swept area the more watts you will extract from any given wind speed. Unless you screw something up really bad the resistance in the coils plays a very, very small part in power production.

You have come into this with preconceived ideas that are simply not so...

Hmmm...
that is interesting... explain further....

It's pretty simple, if you use the right size copper, for the particular alternator you are building, total resistance per phase will be well within acceptable limits, it's certainly not a reason to stop you from building an alternator.
There are also several threads about folks building really good smaller machines from servo motors, those will actually make some decent power.

[Bruce S]

IF you do a search for Jerry rigged, you'll get tons of his stuff, posted and showing built up stuff which includes his latest testings.
Here's a REALLY good post where Jerry did tons of testing
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,145988.msg996141.html#msg996141
Also IRP= Individually Rectified Phases :+)
Cheers;
Bruce S

[birdhouse]

There are also several threads about folks building really good smaller machines from servo motors, those will actually make some decent power.

like a 50lb after brake removed servo like mine pushing 800w at times. 

maybe we should take a step back...  would you be happy with peaks of 100w, and sometimes see 50-70w and mostly see 0-30w? 

IF that's the case, then you're probably on the right track.  7' blades you were talking about are not going to be needed for 100w max.  in fact the 5 footers will spin faster and probably do better, not to mention the 7 footers will most likely rip your tower down in the first decent storm. 

it's all about what you want and your expectations.  any PMA less than 20 lbs is going to have pretty minimal output.  period.  unless you live on the summit of mt rainier.  trust me, it's REALLY windy up there! 

i guess what it all boils down to are your expectations, and the money you spend to get there.  you have already mentioned dissatisfaction at buying additional tower hardwear at lowes, and your tower is far from robust even for a 5 footer.  and then you put a turbine on top that rarely give more than 50w. 

most of us here are all about cheap watts.  IE: make it, scrouge, re-use, make it stronger than it ever has to be, but with scrap steel, and find a PMA for cheap that really puts it out, and dig through yards for stuff, and take that old computer they're throwing out and pull some useful stuff out of it, and ordering stuff online, because i know i can get 4 turnbuckles for the price of one a lowes if i'm willing to wait a week for delivery...  yea, all that kinda stuff. 

so if this is just a large experiment for you and budget isn't an option to produce a mere 110w, then keep on keeping on. 

if your looking to produce real power, and maybe be able to really use some of it, then it's time to get serious, and re-think your tower and the lightweight part of you system. 

maybe even another pipe of identical size welded every 3' sistered to your original pipe?  i dunno, even that doesn't sound all that strong. 

have you atleast moved the upper guys to the point where there's just a foot or so of blade clearance?  you can't have 8-10' of unsupported mast...  major disaster waiting to happen!

just trying to help, and put things into perspective!

adam

[ChrisOlson]

It's pretty simple, if you use the right size copper, for the particular alternator you are building, total resistance per phase will be well within acceptable limits, it's certainly not a reason to stop you from building an alternator.

I haven't had time to catch up on this whole thread.  Why are we building generators now?  What happened to the Red Delco?

Aren't you starting to get a little suspicious as to why your Red Delco hasn't showed up?  Does the dude have your money already?  Did tornados and personal problems delay the delivery of your Red Delco like it did for these folks?
http://www.ripoffreport.com/sales-people/hurricane-wind-power/hurricane-wind-power-company-df8f0.htm

Or was the excuse this time the special elliptical magnets with vortexes and cascading electrical waves?

I checked back in on this thread expecting to read about a Red Delco with flashy aluminum blades with bent tips that puts out 3 watts @ 20 mph wind speed.  Now I'm starting to get suspicious that your Red Delco is never going to show up.
--
Chris

[dkmoore]

I've been following this thread because I'm a newbie and had considered at one time the purchase of the  Cat-3 or 4,( I can't remember) Hurricane Wind Power PMA.  But being the attorney that I am, I began a thorough research of the those PMA's v. other alternatives.  Part of that research brought me to this website and this thread.  I've been in practice for 23 years, and let me tell you, in my opinion, anyone who advertises one thing with certain stats, and then says that they need time to specially build that one thing and make changes so they achieve thoseadvertised stats ( likely because under the public microscope) is full of the stuff that comes out the rears of horses that I own.  Move on Steadfast, and listen to Chris et. al.

[DamonHD]

Lawyers and wind power*: we're doomed I tell ya!  B^>

Welcome dkmoore: thanks for your insights.  I'm not a lawyer but I've been in business and consulting long enough to get the same vibes...

Rgds

Damon

*And real horse power too!

[fabricator]

I'd almost be willing to bet with all this exposure, you will likely get a refund and never see the super delco.

Been there, said that.

[fabricator]

It's pretty simple, if you use the right size copper, for the particular alternator you are building, total resistance per phase will be well within acceptable limits, it's certainly not a reason to stop you from building an alternator.

I haven't had time to catch up on this whole thread.  Why are we building generators now?  What happened to the Red Delco?

Aren't you starting to get a little suspicious as to why your Red Delco hasn't showed up?  Does the dude have your money already?  Did tornados and personal problems delay the delivery of your Red Delco like it did for these folks?
http://www.ripoffreport.com/sales-people/hurricane-wind-power/hurricane-wind-power-company-df8f0.htm

Or was the excuse this time the special elliptical magnets with vortexes and cascading electrical waves?

I checked back in on this thread expecting to read about a Red Delco with flashy aluminum blades with bent tips that puts out 3 watts @ 20 mph wind speed.  Now I'm starting to get suspicious that your Red Delco is never going to show up.
--
Chris

We are not supposed to mention the word "Delco" anymore, try to keep up will ya Olson?

[Bruce S]

FAb;
 At this point I think you can call them anything you'd like. I was checking into Hugh's blog's ( just trying to stay only 1/2step behind ) seems the hurricane dude was trying to take Hugh to task about posting data in a corrected format.
Since Hugh is a highly respected person here, I'll merely post the link so other can read for themselves.
http://scoraigwind.co.uk/2012/01/all-readings-are-based-on-open-current-voltage-and-shorted-load/
Now this was back earlier this year and thing may have changed  (I doubt it tho  ).
They ALL, including others, one unfortunately located in our fine state  seem to be fixating on the color red.
Ummmm me thinks things may be afoot!!
Cheers
Bruce S

[ChrisOlson]

is full of the stuff that comes out the rears of horses that I own.

I like it.

In lawyer it's:
"stuff that comes out the rears of horses that I own"

In scientist it's:
"anal excretions of a herbivorous quadraped"

In layman it's:
just plain BS
--
Chris

[fabricator]

Yeah, they used to be called carpet baggers, nowdays they are scammers, same thing different century.

[ChrisOlson]

We are not supposed to mention the word "Delco" anymore, try to keep up will ya Olson?

Oh.  Sorry.   
--
Chris

[ChrisOlson]

They ALL, including others, one unfortunately located in our fine state  seem to be fixating on the color red.

Women like red.  This is a known fact.  If two dudes, one with a red Corvette, and the other with a blue Corvette, pull up to the stop sign and try to impress some Hot Babe, the dude with the red Corvette gets the Hot Babe.  Every time.  It's true.   
--
Chris

[Bruce S]

Chris;
That I get  , my '74 Old Omega was fire engine red with white pin stripping! and BOY did that work for me. That and the 455 double pumper under the hood  .
Can ya tell me why then they always seem to go for the blue Viking stoves?

NOW to the story at hand. I looked long and hard at the different "Brands" of these and I can hardly tell the difference, except the pricing and whether or not they have Voc and Isc along with a wind chart.
Costs can range from a mere $205 to up double that and more.

PS> Nice pics of your 'mill on Hugh's blog. It still up ?

PPSS>>> for those in the Milwaukee, WI region, out on the lake front, there a nice place to go see a bunch of different "mills" and their outputs on a real-time basis.
The Discovery World has (last time I visited) 5 different models with gauges for each individual one along with a anemometer for wind speeds and I think average output or possibly total Kwh.
Cheers
Bruce S 

[fabricator]

is full of the stuff that comes out the rears of horses that I own.

I like it.

In lawyer it's:
"stuff that comes out the rears of horses that I own"

In scientist it's:
"anal excretions of a herbivorous quadraped"

In layman it's:
just plain BS
--
Chris

On a purely technical note that would in this case be "HS" the "BS" comes from a male bovine (with his entire package intact) herbivorous quadraped. But who's counting....................besides me.

[Bruce S]

On a purely technical note that would in this case be "HS" the "BS" comes from a male bovine (with his entire package intact) herbivorous quadraped. But who's counting....................besides me.

Fab , I'm certainly glad you cleared the AIR  with that. .
 

[fabricator]

Just trying to keep things on  track, technically.

[ChrisOlson]

PS> Nice pics of your 'mill on Hugh's blog. It still up ?

Thanks.  Yep.  Two of it, in fact.  They run hard every day.  Soon to be three of it.  Got another one finished in the shop - haven't had time to get it on the tower yet.
--
Chris

[fabricator]

Chris;
That I get  , my '74 Old Omega was fire engine red with white pin stripping! and BOY did that work for me. That and the 455 double pumper under the hood  .
Can ya tell me why then they always seem to go for the blue Viking stoves?

NOW to the story at hand. I looked long and hard at the different "Brands" of these and I can hardly tell the difference, except the pricing and whether or not they have Voc and Isc along with a wind chart.
Costs can range from a mere $205 to up double that and more.

PS> Nice pics of your 'mill on Hugh's blog. It still up ?

PPSS>>> for those in the Milwaukee, WI region, out on the lake front, there a nice place to go see a bunch of different "mills" and their outputs on a real-time basis.
The Discovery World has (last time I visited) 5 different models with gauges for each individual one along with a anemometer for wind speeds and I think average output or possibly total Kwh.
Cheers
Bruce S

Basically anything that looks like a delco with a fancy paint job and a 2 x 4 handy box screwed to it with a regular 14/2 cord and plug on the end is something to stay away from.

[Bruce S]

Basically anything that looks like a delco with a fancy paint job and a 2 x 4 handy box screwed to it with a regular 14/2 cord and plug on the end is something to stay away from.

FAB,
That would pretty much sum it up nicely.
BUT I'll hold off on my personal opinion until his new one shows up and it performs either just like he says it will, at which point I'll make sure and let others on other RE forums know too, or ... it gets close which is still a minor win, OR it just doesn't even come close and we'll all be better informed of this brand as well.
Cheers;
Bruce S

[ChrisOlson]

Bruce, I was told we can't call them Red Delco's any more.  So they are hereby known as ReDelco's.

I already viewed the fake open voltage/shorted current "power curve" for the ReDelco in question.  I also read this Tony's diatribe on Hugh's blog.  It's obvious to me that the man just sells stuff that's been rebranded and he doesn't have a clue how to build a wind turbine generator, or what makes a wind turbine work (matching rotor Cp to generator power curve).  The dude don't even comprehend the significance of kWh in energy production.

Anybody in the wind business who sells stuff based on "low wind power" is a farce.  A scam.  Doesn't know the first thing about wind power.

I can already predict the outcome based on experience.  I don't beat around the bush and say some miracle of physics could descend from heaven and it "might work".  It won't.  Period.
--
Chris

[Steadfast]

He sure says "period" a lot...  he he he...   

[Steadfast]

I just got off the phone with Tony at Hurricane...

He said he got one of the PMAs to do 12 volts at 100 RPMs
but that from the data coming out of some of the trial PMAs that he knows he can do much better...
He claims he is struggling with his learning curve on his new precision lathe.

He also wants to try out a more trapezoidal stator...
He added that he has a few more ideas to try out as well...

Tony claims he is very close to nailing this thing,
and that the power curve is surprising on a few of the more tighter ones he has tried...

Bottom line:
Tony wants me to call him next week and we should be getting together for delivery the following weekend. 

Which works out for me, because my father in law got rained out on Saturday.
And thus, he could not begin to build the new winch stand and that we will have to work on it THIS weekend.  He said something about arch welders and pouring rain not mixing too well. 
Go figure...

When I got home from the camping trip Sunday afternoon,
I did however manage to install my new Doc Wattson and used my solar panels to play with it.
VERY COOL! 

BTW:
If you are a History Buff, Charleston SC. is a fantastic place to vacation!
You gotta do the walking Pirate Tour… fascinating! 

[Bruce S]

Pleasantries:
More's the better!! I have family out in ShadowMoss and John's island (BiLo is your friend.
Did you do the gate tour too?
Every time I go visit we see different stuff.

Post at hand:
Chris: I hear ya, I read the entire blog hoping against all hope, he would see the light, he didn't, but a very nice part was the way Hugh treated him with such respect, and dignity. Speaks volumes of Hugh!! ME? I'd be hauled into court  again 

I could tell from his "speech" he wasn't being very forth coming with "field tested" data.
WHO said we can't call them red delcos? I could not find anywhere showing me freedom of speech has been repealed.
Do I need to clean off the reloader ? or buy more? I've been eye-balling this Chinese-made AK for sometime now.

Steadfast:
Numbers: 12V AC or DC? loaded versus unloaded?
12Vdc into a battery will only charge a discharged battery; which at 12Vdc is about to become  core trade in material.
When he did the test what was the Volts at 200RPM, the other one (website not gonna be posted ATM)  that has the chart show decent output up at 1000RPM.
For this one to be worth you're time and concrete in a low wind area ,will need to have a voltage of at least 13.5Vdc and should be pushing at least 20watts.
Sorry and I know you're in a learning curve, but I sat down with several friends over this past weekend and did the numbers of what would be the bare minimum for them to have something acceptable.
What they came up with was battery charging voltage so they could charge 2 SAMs golf cart batteries and run a few lights for their patio.
IF you already own the blades, you will be needing only a few of those 7, look at the hub and send a picture (forgive if you did already), possibly can reconfigure the hub to use 3 max to get RPMs up.

[Steadfast]

So that my "cut in" is at least 1.5VDC,
I will need to have a minimum voltage of at least 13.5VDC "loaded" as my minimum at say 100 RPMs?  or can that be 13.5Vdc loaded at 200RPM?

Yes, when I get home, I will take some photos of the other blades and hubs I own and post them.
as well as my set up with the Dr Watts installed.

Was Tony's discussion on Hugh's blog a recent one?
Do you have that link?

[fabricator]

Jeez That dumb ass will just never learn, 12 volts at 100 rpms is absolutely meaningless unless we know how he measured it, and steadfast, you should know that by now.

[fabricator]

So that my "cut in" is at least 1.5VDC,
I will need to have a minimum voltage of at least 13.5VDC "loaded" as my minimum at say 100 RPMs?  or can that be 13.5Vdc loaded at 200RPM?

Yes, when I get home, I will take some photos of the other blades and hubs I own and post them.
as well as my set up with the Dr Watts installed.

100 rpms 200rpms, it doesn't matter neither will ever happen.

[Bruce S]

So that my "cut in" is at least 1.5VDC,
I will need to have a minimum voltage of at least 13.5VDC "loaded" as my minimum at say 100 RPMs?  or can that be 13.5Vdc loaded at 200RPM?

Yes, when I get home, I will take some photos of the other blades and hubs I own and post them.
as well as my set up with the Dr Watts installed.

100 rpms 200rpms, it doesn't matter neither will ever happen.

Fab;
Let's play nice , its summer and the birds are singing and the beer is super cold  .

[Steadfast]

Hey... This is on Him, not me...
If it doesn't work...it doesn't work...
Ill just return it...and get a refund...


And then I'll be stuck, with no bird flying, having to use that refund money to begin to buy the stuff to fabricate my own with the 12 "zombie" magnents I already have. 

I simply hope he proves you guys wrong, by suprising us all...
It would save me a ton of effort...

Frankly, my wife is growing weiry of this whole effort. 
and my butt is starting to show the bite marks... 

[Bruce S]

Steadfast;
Honestly I too really hope he proves us wrong. I really like for small businesses to succeed.
I have no less than 3 people here in St Louis that'll put up at least one. NOT me though city already dinged me once, another will mean even bigger fine 

My wife now refuses to listen to us when we get going on about windmills.
Solar is okay, she can see the charger kick in when the sun comes up.
We are on-grid, and unless 2012 comes true  we will be on-grid until I retire, then I'm headed southwest .
Show your wife the solar panels, the meter , the batts and how you can make use of that stuff right now.
You're in N.C.? hurricane season coming soon? hopefully NOT !anyway, go to goodwill or somewhere and get a small coffee pot( assuming you drinking hot beverages) and make a pot. Show her this stuff does work, also go hit up a place that has string(s) of LED lights and light up the back area with them. They're cute around Christmas too  . Show her those, then help her understand the windmill stuff is a little more safety needed, and you're on a learning curve, then go get her another beverage  .
BTW: Depending on your solar, batteries, and inverter size, you CAN power one of those small solid state fridges to keep beverages cold.
This will buy you some more time, it did me 

[DamonHD]

Now I see we're getting to the really nitty-gritty tech advice!  B^>

Rgds

Damon

PS. I think our turning point at home may have been in the middle of the night with the younger sprog a few weeks old in his moses basket (on my desk!) and us attending to him we had a power-cut.  Luckily of course I have 12V lighting at desk to work to, or in this case illuminate the little 'un for his feed or whatever.  I may be remembering with advantages, but in any case my point seemed to have been made.

[Steadfast]

oh, it is not about "That" it works or "Why" we need alternate power source to work.
She has got all that... renewable electricity is the last thing on our list of preparations.

No, you must see this from her point of view...
The issue is about the sheer number of weekends and days off I have blown building it so far...
not to mention the CASH to pay to do it right! Which naively was estimated at 7 times less than what I imagined it would be in the beginning.

Add on The fact that She has a mounting "Honey do" list of more domestic projects that she would rather have me doing on our weekends instead.

And now,
if this PMA fails to produce results...
I am looking at the time exhaustive possibility of having to build my own PMA, from my homebrew book, knowing as little as I do about electricity, because the time and money I have invested already to get around this step has possibly failed...

add on that, I have an empty tower and a bladeless bird with no PMA heart beat just sitting in the back yard, proclaiming openly on several forums and 2 Facebook accounts that I have failed to finish THIS, the most expensive and difficult project I have ever attempted...   
 
whoa... not good.... not good at ALL...