Author Topic: Lots Of Nothing  (Read 35048 times)

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Valalvax

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2012, 05:32:44 PM »
In Ludington MI Consumers Energy has a pump storage facility, they pump a huge resiviour full when electrical demand is low then during the day when it's high they let it out through about six big turbines.

Georgia Power does the same thing with Carter's Lake, I believe

Sorry, wrong lake

http://www.georgiapower.com/lakes/oconee_history.asp

thingamajigger

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2012, 05:58:41 PM »
@Fab
Quote
In Ludington MI Consumers Energy has a pump storage facility, they pump a huge resiviour full when electrical demand is low then during the day when it's high they let it out through about six big turbines.
That's kind of bizarre when I think about it but from an energy standpoint it makes perfect sense and is really no different than a big battery. The problem would be explaining it to everyone else, for instance if a person asked what my job was and I told them --- I pump water uphill at night and let it fall during the day, lol. Or the fact a person could make a great deal of money pumping water uphill at night and letting it fall during the day, it just seems to have a ring of whackiness or futility about it even though it makes perfect sense.

Regards
Thing

dgd

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2012, 10:01:18 PM »
I purchased 4-500W PMA from Missourri Wind and Solar.  They were a year old when I purchased them, but being PMA's using alternator bearings, I would say that I still had 100,000's of hours left on the bearings.

So someone else had maybe tried them and didn't see 2Kw so moved them on.. :-\
The MW&S current 1600watt PMA with 60inch  blades make about 150-250 watts in a decent blow 30-35km wind, and seem to max  350 watts in 50km wind (24volt version). With 2.4metre dia blades I got to 411 watts  :)
BUT is it not a case of you get what you pay for?  for $500 its a fraction of the cost of a real 1.5kW turbine.
The real problem here is the apparently false advertising claiming 1600watts when the real output is about 350watts.
In some countries there is trade description laws that would have seen govt legal action to prevent the 1600watts in the product description and hence a 1600watt output expectation by customers...
Although I have wondered if the pma would make 1600 watts in a 100km wind but I would want to be well away from
the kill zone  :P

dgd
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 10:11:51 PM by dgd »
Off grid since 4/2000
Midnite C150,C250,Clipper, 2.8Kw PV, 2Kw turbine,1025Ah24v FLA (1999), SW3024E (1997), 3q16 48v300Ah LiFeYPO4 6Kw OzInverter, Arduino DUE web monitor.

ChrisOlson

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2012, 11:32:37 PM »
In some countries there is trade description laws that would have seen govt legal action to prevent the 1600watts in the product description and hence a 1600watt output expectation by customers...

Actually though, 1600 watts on a 24 volt system running at 30 volts is only 53 amps.  If you take the blades off that thing and put a pulley on it, then install it on your car engine I would guess it could probably develop 53 amps @ 30 volts.
--
Chris

fabricator

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2012, 09:36:38 AM »
They just forgot to put that in the instructions. LOL
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

dgd

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2012, 03:42:51 AM »
 I hooked a Missouri Wind & Solar 'General' to a Midnite Classic 150. This is a 14magnet 1600 watt alternator with an eleven blade hub with MW&S gen 4 Raptor blades of 62inch diameter. The alternator was fairly free running and the slightest breeze would start it rotating.
The General was a 24v model and battery bank is 24v, the wind curve in the Classic was a best guess.
Over a 2 week period of zero to medium winds I got 7.4Kw/hrs with  best day of 1.1Kw/hrs
So not a lot but not nothing either. Still sort of ok  for a $451 turbine ::)
dgd

http://youtu.be/n7V2cItXtbw
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 04:48:26 AM by dgd »
Off grid since 4/2000
Midnite C150,C250,Clipper, 2.8Kw PV, 2Kw turbine,1025Ah24v FLA (1999), SW3024E (1997), 3q16 48v300Ah LiFeYPO4 6Kw OzInverter, Arduino DUE web monitor.

Bruce S

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2012, 01:09:43 PM »
I hooked a Missouri Wind & Solar 'General' to a Midnite Classic 150. This is a 14magnet 1600 watt alternator with an eleven blade hub with MW&S gen 4 Raptor blades of 62inch diameter. The alternator was fairly free running and the slightest breeze would start it rotating.
The General was a 24v model and battery bank is 24v, the wind curve in the Classic was a best guess.
Over a 2 week period of zero to medium winds I got 7.4Kw/hrs with  best day of 1.1Kw/hrs
So not a lot but not nothing either. Still sort of ok  for a $451 turbine ::)
dgd

http://youtu.be/n7V2cItXtbw
Hey good to see someone is getting something from these units! I am curious though and being in the very state they are named after. Would it be possible for you to post a picture or two? plus any info on your setup you'd like to add.:-)
Cheers;
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

dgd

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2012, 10:11:18 PM »
Hey good to see someone is getting something from these units! I am curious though and being in the very state they are named after. Would it be possible for you to post a picture or two? plus any info on your setup you'd like to add.:-)
Cheers;
Bruce S

Missouri General atop 10metre pole clear to wind from West and North... solar panels facing north, also those just visible behind trees have clear view of almost overhead sun.



nice and clean looking - all those blades  :)



Midnite Classic 150 and relay/dump load resistors for General. I got this 150 for the hy1000 but it smelt like burnt toast when I took it down, I think it may have been zapped in a winter electrical storm. A neighbour told me that
it looked like sparks shooting out of it one stormy night. Its off to be repaired but is probably a write off...  so I wanted something low cost to play with until my 10 footer flies  :D

The resistors are 300w types, one connected to each AC phase from turbine and then to Crydom 3 phase relay that shorts phases via resistors. AUX2 WasteNot from Classic controls the relay.
The general hardly produces enough Amps to need this type of clipper. When the solar via another 150 fills the
bank then this 150 enables the relay. I have seen it work nice and the general warms the resistors.
But its all really in prepation for the 10 footer flying.
I have also replaced the direct link from AUX2 to the Crydom with a logic board that uses the AUX2 Clipper control  with an overvoltage detector circuit using an lm397 comparator. This logic board also detects dead 150 using the presence of the 9v in one of the telco connectors in the 150...  All to prevent a free flying turbine  :)


 
dgd

Off grid since 2000 in Auckland New Zealand, 2.4kw solar, hy1000 turbine, Missouri General turbine, 3 Classics 150/150/250, 1150Ah Century battery 24v, Trace 3024E, SEA 3KW, 600watt water element dump load.
ongoing projects: near complete Otherpower 10foot turbine, change to AC water heating 2Kw, install more panels  :)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:57:09 PM by dgd »
Off grid since 4/2000
Midnite C150,C250,Clipper, 2.8Kw PV, 2Kw turbine,1025Ah24v FLA (1999), SW3024E (1997), 3q16 48v300Ah LiFeYPO4 6Kw OzInverter, Arduino DUE web monitor.

electrondady1

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2012, 10:37:51 PM »
palm trees, dam!
i just spent 3 weeks raking .
what's that other tree on the left that's pointing  towards the mill?
some kinda giant cannabis bud?

dgd

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2012, 07:40:00 PM »
palm trees, dam!
i just spent 3 weeks raking .
what's that other tree on the left that's pointing  towards the mill?
some kinda giant cannabis bud?

 That's what the 11 blades are for, they whip up the air into an inverse cone of highly charged molecules that  attract to that head. It's now a monster.
in a month or so when it's real hot and nobody can sleep I will get this in the wood burner so all the street gets a mystery trip.
Off grid since 4/2000
Midnite C150,C250,Clipper, 2.8Kw PV, 2Kw turbine,1025Ah24v FLA (1999), SW3024E (1997), 3q16 48v300Ah LiFeYPO4 6Kw OzInverter, Arduino DUE web monitor.

kenobrock

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2013, 08:56:02 PM »
Can a wind powered generator and a solar system charge the same battery bank? The solar system will be 5KW and the wind generator will be 2.5KW. The windmill will be a 14' diameter water pumping windmill on a 40' tower, that will have the reciprocal action changed to rotary so a rotating shaft will come down inside the tower to the generator will be down at ground level. The generator will be a rebuilt Jacobs. I have made rotary conversions before on 5 smaller 8 ft diameter water pumping windmills for skimming oil. Using an 18 blade wheel there will be a lot of power in a much lower speed wind.

electrondady1

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2013, 08:41:32 AM »
Can a wind powered generator and a solar system charge the same battery bank?
yup. if the voltage outputs are the same.

Yianie123.

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2015, 08:52:14 PM »
Thank you for keeping my post up so long.  To bring everyone up to date, I am building an 8ft diameter windturbine.  Going to try PVC blades, made first with. 6inch diameter then try with 8 in dia. Started, but modifying my design already.

hiker

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2015, 12:02:17 AM »
lets have some picts...........
WILD in ALASKA

Yianie123.

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2015, 12:26:46 PM »
Photo wont upload, is there a size restriction?  I am using my IPAD to take the photo and it will not upload.

Yianie123.

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2015, 12:42:25 PM »
I hooked a Missouri Wind & Solar 'General' to a Midnite Classic 150. This is a 14magnet 1600 watt alternator with an eleven blade hub with MW&S gen 4 Raptor blades of 62inch diameter. The alternator was fairly free running and the slightest breeze would start it rotating.
The General was a 24v model and battery bank is 24v, the wind curve in the Classic was a best guess.
Over a 2 week period of zero to medium winds I got 7.4Kw/hrs with  best day of 1.1Kw/hrs
So not a lot but not nothing either. Still sort of ok  for a $451 turbine ::)
dgd

http://youtu.be/n7V2cItXtbw

Is that 1.1kw per hour or a 24 hr period?  If its a day, than the average is 46watts and hour.

DamonHD

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2015, 01:37:51 PM »
Please, no "watts per hour".  Watts are already energy per hour.

Rgds

Damon

Yianie123.

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2015, 01:49:01 PM »
Please, no "watts per hour".  Watts are already energy per hour.

Rgds

Damon
In order to achieve 1.1kw/per hour with that type of generator, you are looking at a 50mph wind. 

Yianie123.

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2015, 02:59:18 PM »
In order to achieve 1.1kw/per hour with that type of generator, you are looking at a 50mph wind.

dnix71

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2015, 05:59:01 PM »
Over a 2 week period of zero to medium winds I got 7.4Kw-hrs with best day of 1.1Kw-hrs

That fixes it.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2015, 03:18:39 AM »
I purchased 4-500W PMA from Missourri Wind and Solar.  They were a year old when I purchased them, but being PMA's using alternator bearings, I would say that I still had 100,000's of hours left on the bearings.

Alternator bearings are designed to last in the ballpark of 100,000 miles.  At 50 MPH that's 2,000 hours, but figure maybe 5,000 hours for idling and driving slow time.  A year averages about 8,766 hours.  If you have enough wind to load the bearings and spin the shaft comparably to what it experiences in a car, you'll be lucky to get a year out of the bearings.

Also:  Alternator bearings are designed to be loaded mainly sideways, and a wind turbine gets a lot of force along the shaft.  So don't expect regular alternator bearings to do well.  (Of course part of the conversion they did to the alternator MIGHT have involved swapping in more appropriate bearings.)

madlabs

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2015, 09:06:53 PM »
Please, no "watts per hour".  Watts are already energy per hour.

Rgds

Damon

Huh? I always understood that watts are an instantaneous measurement of power and that watt hours are energy per hour. What(watt) am I missing here?

Jonathan

oztules

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2015, 10:33:58 PM »
Jonathon, you have missed almost  nothing. Watts are an instantaneous measurement of power.

eg if you had one joule of energy, and released it in one millionth of a second, you would have 1MW or 1,000,000watts of power being used for that period of time.

If you released it in one second, you would have one watt of power being used for a second.

It takes 4.2 joules to heat one ml of water  1 degree C so not a lot of energy, but the extreme example above gives us an idea that power is an interesting thing.

Damon was having one of those days I think.

" and that watt hours are energy per hour.".... no....... watt hours are a measurement of energy.. ... and so energy x  time is power.
Watt hours  are power/ time = energy.

So watts= energy/time.........energy x time= watts.... and time = watts/energy....
.....I think..... maybe I'm having one of those days too....

...................oztules
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 10:44:41 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

oztules

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2015, 10:51:56 PM »
dammit..... can't edit it

"So watts= energy/time.........energy x time= watts.... and time = watts/energy...." is wrong.... we'll start again...

watts= energy / time
time= energy / watts
energy=watts x time

Think thats it this time.....

..............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

madlabs

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2015, 01:18:36 PM »
Thanks Oz. Just checking...

JOnathan

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2015, 04:28:03 PM »
I stand by my statement!  Watts are energy per unit time, ie power.

Rgds

Damon

oztules

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2015, 05:02:14 PM »
So I am having one of those days.....

Some how didn't read you correctly.

............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

bob g

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2016, 07:11:16 PM »
hi there folks, been maybe a year since i checked in?

i always thought of a "watt" as being volt * amp, or rather 1 volt at 1amp = 1 watt,
i guess i never considered the "time" element!

so if i have 1 volt at 1 amp in a circuit, what unit of time do i have to have to consider the power in the circuit being 1 watt?

curious minds want to know and all that!
bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

mab

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2016, 07:39:25 PM »
watts (power) = joules (energy) per second
amps= coulombs (charge) per second

so:

1volt * 1 amp = 1volt * 1 coulomb/sec  = 1 joule/sec = 1 watt

clear as mud. :)


Mary B

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Re: Lots Of Nothing
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2016, 07:43:09 PM »
Watts are an instantaneous measurement. Watt hours are a time measurement.