Author Topic: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris  (Read 20357 times)

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yeshuaiaism

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Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« on: April 22, 2012, 02:12:36 PM »
I'm just wanting to share with you guys my success with a 2 door Toyota Yaris Hatchback.

Basically with a light foot on the pedal, slightly overinflated tires, I'm getting around 50 mpg on the highway, 42 in the city.

I paid $15,000 for the car.

Comparing this to vehicles such as the Nissan Leaf which is fully electric, the numbers work out pretty amazingly with today's gas prices.

Nissan leaf base price is going to be $34,000
Toyota Yaris base price is $15,000

Nissan leaf never needs gas, and as crazy as this may sound, for the sake of argument, I'm going to say that the leaf gets "free gas" and will not compute the cost of the electricity.

Basically with simple math, the Leaf is $19,000 more than the Yaris in base price.   

On average, at $3.85 a gallon in Dallas, TX prices, this means that I can fill up my Yaris, 493 times on the BASE PRICE difference.

On average, I get nearly 365 miles per tank on the Yaris.    This means I can travel about 170,000 to 180,000 miles  BEFORE I even add up the cost of the base price difference on the Nissan Leaf.   If I have a heavier foot, 150,000 miles.

Considering that many Hybrids need new driving battery packs, and probably the Nissan Leaf would need a new battery pack by 150k-180k miles that costs thousands, it is hard to imagine just on ECONOMIC REASONS ever paying the price difference for a hybrid.   Also factor in depreciation and it just does not make any economic sense.   Also the Leaf has a 50-60 mile range with accessories.

Also of course like I said, there are many KWh that will go into charging the leaf that will jack up your power bill.   Plug in hybrids are somewhat of the same monster financially.  A converted Prius hybrid will have battery packs, KWh's, and has a 40k base price after conversion.  When all is said and done, a Prius hybrid will get 65mpg.

Nobody get me wrong, if the base price was cheaper on either a full electric or a hybrid, I'd be right there.  But at nearly 50mpg (highway no accessories and slightly overinflated tires) in my Yaris, with such a cheap base price and awesome reliability, it is hard for me to convert to alternative transportation.

Hopefully people here have some much cheaper solutions & less power - consumption - etc.  In my area I'd probably be ran over with an ebike.   Motorcycles are death traps around here too.

I'm still not sure why the manufacturer rates the Yaris so low in MPG.  It does WAY better than they are claiming.  I wonder if its so they can sell more hybrids?

yeshuaiaism

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 02:29:31 PM »
oops meant to post in transportation.

Bruce S

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 02:51:16 PM »
Looks like someone behind the scenes moved into correct section before I did.
Welcome to the board and thanks for doing the math on this.
You are not alone with this thinking.
A Popular Mechanics guy did the same thing back in the 70s (I think), when the first fuel embargo happened and fuel went from. 049 /gal up to an alarming 1.25/gal by 1975 :-) .
I have a friend who paid the extra money for that feel-good reason, which is OK by me, and an honest one.
I can understand the expense due to battery technology catches up, but I'm with you. Until the are equal in price I'll just use some hypermiling techniques :-) .
Cheers
Bruce S
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zap

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 04:09:34 PM »
Great post... it's nice to see some real numbers on the Yaris.

I picked up a used '07 Silverado a year and a half ago.  Single cab, full bed 4x2 and has the 4.3L V6 w/auto.
I put a partial belly pan under the front and closed some holes on the bumper last year but I don't think it did much.

A few weeks ago I built a "ramp" out of OSB to cover the bed from the bumper up to the tool box.  I've been working out of town and it's a 200 mile trip one way.
I got 26.8 mpg going up and 27.5 coming down the first time I drove my truck then 27 going up the next week and 28.9 on the return.  On that last trip I briefly saw 29.2 mpg on my ultraguage before I ran into rush hour traffic close to home.
Nothing too scientific since I've never made this trip in this truck before... but I was happy :)

taylorp035

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 10:32:03 PM »
For me, a $10,500 tax credit from Pa and the govt would change the math significantly.  Also, I were to change out my daily driver @ 21.5 mpg, this would also  help the math.  As for electricity, an all electric car would be in the ball park of ~$2,000 over the lifetime of the vehicle, compared to $15-20k for a gas vehicle, obviously different depending how you calculate it.  Also, I would not have to replace plastic intake manifolds or radiator expansion tanks in an electric car.

I could drive my SMV @ 2,000 mpg, but at $500/gal, it's not really economical or feasible unless I switch to normal gas.


I might reconsider my personal transportation this summer since my new job may be 50 miles round trip instead of 22 miles from last summer.  But why throw out a perfectly good car with 70k miles on it???

gizmo

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 11:58:41 PM »
"$3.85 a gallon"

Man I cant believe how cheap fuel is for you guys. Enjoy it while it lasts, cause it wont. We pay about $1.60 a litre here, thats about $6.40 a gallon in your money.

I think its going to be some time, if at all, that a all electric vehicle can compete with a fuel burning vehicle for cost and convenience. There's a lot of stored energy in a tank of fuel, you can drive for several hundred km, spend 5 minues refueling, and do the same distance over and over again. For a big wide country fuel will rule for some time yet. I think we will see smarter use of fuel in the short term, alternative fuels.

All electric does have a place, like public transport, inner city driving, but its just not suitable for everyone yet.

Glenn


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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 02:18:00 AM »
It's funny, it doesn't take long to attract the attention of Big Brother.  This post has only been up for 13 hours and garnered 156 views, but already the Google ad banners top and bottom are for compact cars!!!  They cycle through a series so if I hit "refresh" I guess I'd see something different, and for you the next viewer, and everyone who comes next, you may see something different.  But right at the moment there's a Mazda 3 at the top and a Hyundai Elantra at the bottom of my screen!

Welcome to the new internet, where the advertiser robots know you're coming!

Anyway, sorry to go off the topic.  I think the subject of watching fuel consumption is of interest to many on this forum.  Thanks for posting the info, yeshuaiaism.

I bought an Acura Integra years ago, and drove it across the country, watching fuel mileage as I went.  It was interesting to watch how big the effect of altitude had on consumption.  Starting near sea level I got 7 liters per 100 km, but by the time I got to Calgary it was well above 8.  In winter it would sometimes take 9 liters per 100 km.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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Bruce S

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 08:57:43 AM »
Gizmo;
 I agree there is a place for electric. Our daughter's is a e-scooter running 48V 550watt and can get up to about 32mph and because of the battery pack I built specifically for it out of recycled NiCds; can go about 35 miles before it runs low.
Had the batteries not been free they would've been hard to pay for, whereas a 4-stroker of the same cost would get ~100m/gal.
The Botanical Gardens where she volunteered at loved showing it off and would even let her plug in to recharge.
They got tons of fan email about it and now have recharge stations of the electric vehicles :-) for a slight fee :-).

Zap; Nice use of the hypermiler tricks:).
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REdiculous

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 11:13:28 AM »
A Leaf would basically double our electric bill. Our problem is that we'd need to charge it every day. That'd be about $1000 worth of electricity every year, not $2000 over the life of the car. Besides, if it pushed us into the next tier, our base rate would go up.

The Leaf would be worth it to me if it was $20-26k and had a detachable genset. Our problem is that we need a car, not a "car". If you can only do 65mph for 1 hour before you're out of juice...for $34k...I'd get almost anything else.
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dnix71

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 08:43:29 PM »
I've been looking at the Yaris, too. My 1995 Ford Aerostar gets about 15 mpg around town and 24 on the highway. The mileage sux around town because it won't drop into overdrive until it gets up to about 55 mph.

Gas here in south Florida is back down to about $3.85, too, from $3.99 a few weeks ago. I would love to have an electric car, but on what I make it that will probably never happen, so I only drive to work and back and stop along the way for groceries and other needs. 20 mile/day 5 days a week.

The Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are about the same size and same base price. A Nissan Leaf for almost double that ($27,000 base) makes no $en$e.

vtpeaknik

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 08:53:24 PM »
The Toyota "Echo" is really a Yaris with a different shape box, they used to sell it in the USA in the past.  If you can find a used one it's a good little car.  I've had one for 7 years now, it's been trouble-free and gets MPG anywhere from low 30's (around town in winter) to low 40's (highway).  And that's with an automatic transmission - couldn't find a used one with manual shift at the time.  When I was shopping for a car then, I compared with the other small cars on the market and none were as good.  E.g., the Honda Fit look as small, but uses somewhat more fuel.  Others were less reliable.

More recently I also bought a 10-year-old Prius.  That's a gamble, since nobody knows how long the battery will last.  But meanwhile I'm getting from 37 to 52 MPG on that, and it cost < $7000.  Great for stop-and-go traffic.  Not much better than the Echo / Yaris on the highway.  I would never had bought it new, due to the "math" of this thread.

Simen

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012, 12:47:24 PM »
I figure this is an 'US' thread but...

Here in Norway, we pay in excess of $10/Gal. for gasoline, but only $0.10/kWh for electricity. Wouldn't that change your 'math'? ;D
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dnix71

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 10:33:21 PM »
Simen the math wouldn't change much even at $10/gallon gas. The base price difference is still $19k. I use about 1.5 gallons of gas a day including weekends. It would take about 3.5 years to recover the difference even if electricity was free. At 10 cents/kwh the electricity would cost about 45 cents a day.

Comprehensive insurance is based on vehicle value so the Leaf will also cost more each year to insure.

I couldn't use the Leaf as my only vehicle, either, because it won't go far from home. At least a hybrid could be taken anywhere the road leads. My sister and parents live about 250 miles away in the same state. Can't do that with a Leaf.

I can bicycle almost anywhere I have to go locally or take the bus. To spend a year's wages on a new car makes no sense to me.

REdiculous

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 05:14:06 PM »
Quote
My sister and parents live about 250 miles away in the same state. Can't do that with a Leaf.

Sure you can, you just have to start with a full charge and charge it another 2-4 times along the way.  If it only takes 2 hours to get a full charge, that's barely a 4-8 hour lay-over, assuming you can find a fast charger where and when you need it.

What's wrong with that?..too optimistic? lol
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oztules

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 06:14:43 PM »
While fuel is cheaper than bottled water......whats to say?

Fuel here is $2.00/litre, and power is $0.25/kwh.

Can't buy bottled water for less than $2.00/l, (we have the cleanest water in the world apparently  here.... so who wants bottled anyway), and can't make power for $0.25 reliably either.

Life is not so bad.



..........oztules
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DanB

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2012, 01:37:22 AM »
Hmmm... what about a 50 year old $300 Volvo 122 that only gets 22-27mph, but came with enough parts to fix it for a while? 
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

SparWeb

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2012, 12:15:09 PM »
I have some numbers to add:  I was in Europe a couple of weeks ago, and when I rented a car in Switzerland, it happened to be a Yaris.  Manual transmission.
I didn't watch my fuel very carefully, and driving Swiss Alps is quite a vertical experience.  My estimated altitude change was from 500m to 1500m altitude, up and back down, twisty turny roads half the way.  The other half was highway, driving about 100-130 kph (lots of Bimmers zooming past).  Under these conditions, I used 3/4 of the tank (roughly) to drive 453 km.  The tank is 42L, so I calculate 7 liters of fuel for every 100 km driven  (34 mpg).  Very approximate result, of course, because fuel gauges are not very accurate.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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Frank S

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2012, 07:01:05 PM »
 in 89 my oldest daughter bought new GEO metro 3 cyl 1 ltr 5 sp w/AC, paid $5875.00 cash out the door she drove it to college & back every day for 18 mo. till she graduated and averaged 58 mpg over the 70,000 miles , the throw out bearing clutch release started leaking the GM house told her $1,800.00 to repair so she had it cleaned & detailed then traded it for a new max loaded Sentra with trade the out the door cash difference was $5,000.00 I figured she got a bout $ 4 K for the GEO. She now has come kind of Toyota I think because I haven't heard from her in 3 or 4 years
 FOr my money if  I were living in Europe it would have to be whatever that little V W is with the diesel , last year while on holiday in Spain I dove the diesel for2 weeks then the petrol version for 2 weeks, hands down the diesel is the better car and 30% better fuel economy. Currently there is not a hybrid on the planet I would ever even rent let alone own as of right now, maybe there will be in 10 or 15 years that  I would consider
  But I might think about a Tesla if someone ever learns how to make batteries.   
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jlt

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2012, 09:11:19 AM »
I drive about 90000 mi per year. As my job as an oversize load escort. My current vehicle is a chev uplander   that averages 23 mpg. and has 350000 miles on it.

  I bought a VW 2 liter tdi that I will be using  next. It has averaged about 39 mpg. No I don't drive slow. If I drive about 65mph it will average 50 mpg.

   I got one with the 6 speed automatic stick shift.The stick shift would do better but not as convenient.
        This will keep up with them beemers If you need to . 
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zap

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2012, 09:48:11 AM »

ghurd

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2012, 01:07:33 AM »
I recently got a Prius.
My downgraded primary occupation in recent times involes all city driving.

Prius does better when the motor and battery are "warmed up", though unfortunately for me, they usually are not.
The sweet spot seems to be about 45MPH, with maybe 62MPG driving like a conservative normal human.
Extra super conservative driving in the city will do over 70MPG (PITA, and people would tent to become 'unfriendly' if I drove that way).

My math at the time, based on sticker MPG and US$3.75/G, and 100K miles on 25% highway, showed the savings in gas would pay for 1/3rd of the car, compared to a 'similar' Corrolla.

Pretty sure my driving habits will more make up for the shortfall in the reduced fuel prices.

Plus I just like it better.  It is big on the inside. Leather, backup camera, smart key, lots of glove compartments (some with power ports), aux jack for the awsome stereo in one of the 'glove compartments', seating system allows for some LARGE loads, etc, etc, etc.

For me, it ended up cheaper and much better.
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taylorp035

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2012, 01:02:50 PM »
I was surprised too with how much space is in a Prius, especially legroom in the front and back.  I wish people would calculate the payoff period for their fuel savings over 100k miles or the life of the car instead of 3-5 years... plus, the prius will hold it's value well for when you decide to sell it.

I've been playing with my driving style while driving to work (21-28 miles round trip, depending on route).  I drive a 97 Jeep Grand Cheerokee Limited with the I-6 4.0L engine.  Under normal  driving, I was getting 18 mpg.  If I keep the speed down and apply the best of my ability to wring out every mpg, I can get 22 mpg.  The lifetime average is about 15.5 mpg, but 95% of it's trips are 5 miles with a 200 foot elevation change in between and lots of stop lights.  Then the fun part is driving the bmw 740 with the 4.4L V8 (800 lbs heavier than the Jeep...) and I can get 25-26 mpg on the same trip on premium gas.

SparWeb

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2012, 03:37:25 PM »
...Then the fun part is driving the bmw 740 with the 4.4L V8 (800 lbs heavier than the Jeep...) and I can get 25-26 mpg on the same trip on premium gas.

Funny how that happens when comparing very different vehicles.  I've watched fuel economy on my many vehicles for years, and the results are hard to believe.  I still get the same mileage from my 1991 Acura Legend, with its 3.2L V6, than I could from a 2004 Golf hatchback.  Nobody believes me when I tell them this, but I kept the fuel receipts for a year to prove it.  The Golf seemed "optimized" (if you could call it optimization) for California cities.  Here in Calgary, at 3500 feet elevation and long straight highways, I was so far outside the design "box" that the Golf's fuel economy was never better than 30 mpg.  I give the credit to the more advanced computer controlling the fuel injection and timing in the Legend, despite its age, and operating in safe mode now, is still way better than the CHEAP computer in the 13-year younger Golf.  The advantage is especially obvious in winter - a very important non-californian weather condition that makes all manufacturer fuel economy claims in Canada outright LIES.

This is all a sore point for me because I'm actually trying to find a good replacement car for the old Legend, however everything I try is either too big or too small.  There is a long list of cars I cannot fit in comfortably (I'm too tall) which eliminates an awful lot of economical cars (be they efficient due to size or due to luxury/performance efforts).
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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wdyasq

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2012, 09:05:24 PM »
Quote
My sister and parents live about 250 miles away in the same state. Can't do that with a Leaf.

Sure you can, you just have to start with a full charge and charge it another 2-4 times along the way.  If it only takes 2 hours to get a full charge, that's barely a 4-8 hour lay-over, assuming you can find a fast charger where and when you need it.

What's wrong with that?..too optimistic? lol

Where are you going to find that fast charger? I talked with a Nissan rep and he said the design hadn't been finalized. Although there is ONE I know of in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metromess. I understand the EV charging infrastructure is in its' infancy but, it will be years before one can take a 300 mile trip and not take a day doing it.

Level 1 charging - from a 110V source takes ~18 hours. Level 2 has two 'powers' - one takes ~8 hours and the faster one about 4 hours. This is for a 100% battery charge.

I recently have started 'doing the math' to figure out what vehicle is going to be cheapest to drive. I drive ~30k miles a year.

Candidates that look promising are the Toyota Corolla and Camry, Mazda 3 with 'Skyactive' engine, Volkswagen with TDI, KIA Optima and a few more. I'll pay more for a VW TDI because I am a diesel fan. Mazda MAY be importing a diesel next year.

Cost will include purchase, fuel, oil changes, tires, major services and such. As I tend to drive things over 300,000 miles, 'trade in' recovery of investment is not considered.

Ron
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

Frank S

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2012, 04:00:45 AM »


I recently have started 'doing the math' to figure out what vehicle is going to be cheapest to drive. I drive ~30k miles a year.

Candidates that look promising are the Toyota Corolla and Camry, Mazda 3 with 'Skyactive' engine, Volkswagen with TDI, KIA Optima and a few more. I'll pay more for a VW TDI because I am a diesel fan. Mazda MAY be importing a diesel next year.

Cost will include purchase, fuel, oil changes, tires, major services and such. As I tend to drive things over 300,000 miles, 'trade in' recovery of investment is not considered.

Ron

 Ron last year while in Spain I drove the VW polo diesel a little over 6000 miles during my vacation
 overall average was between 35 & 40 MPG this war a well mixed city & beach type driving Mountains and some freeway I 6 ft tall and I didn't find uncomfortable even driving 6 or 8 hours at a time. unlike my 2007 trailblazer that just kills me to have to drive it more than 30 or 40 miles
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

keithturtle

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2012, 10:22:06 PM »
I'll give you the low down on the TDI- 8 months ago I bought the new Passat with TDI- dsg "automatic" and I am quite pleased with the performance.

While accelleration isn't breath-taking, it will hold its own on highway ramps and passing, up to 85mph.

I've been a Chevy man for years, but that Cruze was the closest thing to what I wanted, and I'm tired of shifting.  They only build the turbo-diesel overseas.  And it's really a Daewoo, korean.

At least the VW is built in Chattanooga, USA.  German heritage and quality, nothing like it made here [that I can afford].

For a 3400 lb car it does well on fuel, 43 combined city, highway and it ain't even broken in yet.  I don't push it too hard, may be why the good economy, IDK.

The SE was kinda pricey, but I've cut my fuel bill to a third of what it was driving the silverado.

IMHO, you cant go wrong with the TDI.  The smaller cars [Jetta, Golf] get even better mileage.  I hear reports of 52 mpg in a standard Golf TDI.

I'm still not sold on hybrids, too much to go wrong.  I've had 3 older MB diesels, so I am familiar with the old tech as well.  There ain't no comparison to this TDI.  I like it.  If all the electronic stuff keeps working, I'll really be pleased as I drive it to 300k or beyond

Turtle, slow
soli deo gloria

Frank S

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 03:56:58 AM »
I'll give you the low down on the TDI- 8 months ago I bought the new Passat with TDI- dsg "automatic" and I am quite pleased with the performance.

While accelleration isn't breath-taking, it will hold its own on highway ramps and passing, up to 85mph.

I've been a Chevy man for years, but that Cruze was the closest thing to what I wanted, and I'm tired of shifting.  They only build the turbo-diesel overseas.  And it's really a Daewoo, korean.

At least the VW is built in Chattanooga, USA.  German heritage and quality, nothing like it made here [that I can afford].


 About the only thing I liked coming from GM  in recent years was the 89 2500 suburban 454with tow package
 But the company I'm with decided to replace its fleet of  Toyota Prados & Mitsubishi Montenegros for the managers & engineers with the trailblazers in 07 my Mitsubushi had 400K on it with no major repairs only things like brakes tires the normal wear & tear items
 The trailblazers a fleet of 10 have an average of 160k so far there has been 25 transmission rebuilds 1 engine 18 computer replacements all of the front wheel drive CV shafts have been discarded except on mine, the one I drive only has 120K but is on its 3rd transmission and the 4x4 feature has never worked very well since new.
 Its pretty bad when the fleet of 20 2005 Chinese 4 door pickups have a lower total repair bill for 7 years than the 5 years of chevys and much of the repairs on the fleet of what I call junk pickups is from accidents.
 If I were involved in purchasing I would buy the VW Amarok TDI 4 door 4x4 with automatics for the engineers  when it comes time for replacing the trailblazers
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zap

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 11:46:47 AM »
Ron last year while in Spain I drove the VW polo diesel...
It's been rumored for years that the Polo would come to the states.  The latest that I know of was from VW themselves saying Spring of 2012... I'm pretty sure Spring is well past sprung ::)

At least the VW is built in Chattanooga, USA.  German heritage and quality, nothing like it made here [that I can afford]...

The SE was kinda pricey, but I've cut my fuel bill to a third of what it was driving the silverado.
I wanted a diesel Rabbit from the first time I read about them in the late 70's.  I talked about it so much that my Dad decided to buy one in '78?
I finally saved enough to get one in '80( ??? )  Mine was the first year they made them in the states and was a total lemon with problem after problem from the very first week.
My Dad's was German made and he never had a single problem with his.  He put on a turbo after about 2 years and ended up selling it 12 or 13 years later with 275,000 miles on it and it still ran like a top.

The mpg average on my Silverado for the last year and a half is 21.7 at darn near 50/50 city/highway.

Getting what I'm sure is horrible mpg in San Fran... but it does look like fun!

ghurd

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2012, 01:16:49 AM »
I was surprised too with how much space is in a Prius, especially legroom in the front and back.  I wish people would calculate the payoff period for their fuel savings over 100k miles or the life of the car instead of 3-5 years... plus, the prius will hold it's value well for when you decide to sell it.

I've been playing with my driving style while driving to work ...

Correct, the Prius is NOT small.
My friend has a Honda Accord(?), the bigger type whatever it is.  It looks bigger than the Prius, but back seat leg room is a bit wanting for me, and head room is not enough (sitting up straight, my head can touch!).  I'm 5'-10".
Plenty of room in the back too.

I don't think its fair to compare a Prius to a Yaris or Geo Metro or Golf or that new goofy little Fiat.
They are not in the same class.
Point taken on the MPG, but comparing a Caddy to a Yaris To a Suburban will depend on who wants it for what.

I am getting a hair under 60MPG lately, but like I said, the way I usually have to drive it is not condusive to the MPG it is capable of getting.  One better day, it was up closer to 70MPG.

"I've been playing with my driving style "
Me too.  Go figure!
There is this one long fairly steep hill (by local standards) that I go up ~5 times a day.
Trying to get the best MPG, going up slow and easy, easy acceleration, stays bouncing around 11~13MPG.
Was in a big hurry a few times. Hard accelleration, nothing slow and easy about it, and it dropped down to maybe 7~8MPG for a couple seconds, then up to about 18~21MPG the whole rest of the way.

Another long steep hill I travel a few times a day.
If traffic is slower than 35~40MPH, it gets 20~25MPG going up.
If traffic is faster or not in my way, at 45MPH it gets 28~32 going up.

Not at all what I expected.
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taylorp035

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2012, 12:32:13 PM »
Quote
Another long steep hill I travel a few times a day.
If traffic is slower than 35~40MPH, it gets 20~25MPG going up.
If traffic is faster or not in my way, at 45MPH it gets 28~32 going up.

Not at all what I expected.

It's all about the BSFC graph and your gearing.  In the BMW, I can get 30 mpg at 68 on a flat road, but 41 mpg @ 40 mph or 35 mpg at 75 mph (all in 5th gear).

Quote
here is this one long fairly steep hill (by local standards) that I go up ~5 times a day.
Trying to get the best MPG, going up slow and easy, easy acceleration, stays bouncing around 11~13MPG.
Was in a big hurry a few times. Hard accelleration, nothing slow and easy about it, and it dropped down to maybe 7~8MPG for a couple seconds, then up to about 18~21MPG the whole rest of the way.

The cool part is that MPG doesn't depend on speed, so basically it's a game of how high can you make the mpg readout go while keeping a constant speed.  I have a steep hill that I play with too... I can only manage to make it read 7 or 8 mpg.  I found 30 mph was better than 25 mph in the Jeep.


ghurd

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2012, 11:22:13 AM »
Quote
Another long steep hill I travel a few times a day.
If traffic is slower than 35~40MPH, it gets 20~25MPG going up.
If traffic is faster or not in my way, at 45MPH it gets 28~32 going up.

Not at all what I expected.

It's all about the BSFC graph and your gearing.  In the BMW, I can get 30 mpg at 68 on a flat road, but 41 mpg @ 40 mph or 35 mpg at 75 mph (all in 5th gear).

Its a Prius!
There is no "gearing".
There is not even a gear shift really.  It's probably best discribed as a joystick with "frontwards" and "backwards".

Flat road at 40MPH and the gas motor RPM?  The gas motor may be running at a mid range RPM, or low RPM, or idling, or not even running at all.
The state of the gas motor would depend on the temp of the motor (it will idle to keep the temp at normal), and the state of the big battery.
If the motor is warm and the big battery is in the green, the gas motor shuts down.
The power steering and brakes are electric, so is the A/C, but the heat is from the coolant, so the computer thinks about everything, and decides when the gas motor should be running, and what RPM it will be.
The gas pedal isn't even connected to the motor!

It really is like driving a computer game.
I got the 'feel' of it pretty well now.  Not uncommon for me to do 2 miles of city driving without the gas motor even starting.  Longest so far is maybe 3.5 miles or a bit more.  Naturally that is mostly down hill, but still!
Between the battery gauge, regen brakes, calculating the battery:incline:current speed vs how slow it'll be at the peak of that next hill:regen going down the hill:etc, it is pretty fun to drive (for someone 'a bit different'... like me).
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Mary B

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Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2012, 04:09:17 PM »
My Korean built Chevy Aveo has amazing front room, so-so back seat and decent grocery space. I average about 38mpg overall, I have seen peaks of 42mpg in the summer. Bare bones car, only thing it has above basics is a radio. No A/C, 5 speed manual, no power anything.