Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.

[spottrouble]

Trial by fire, or would it be wind and water in this case . Well now you'll have to get a "turbine cam" so we can catch that furling action in the next storm Lookin good!

Kristi

[Steadfast]

Doc wattson question: maybe a few....

I have zero data of the storm on the doc.
I also hve zero data of the storm on my weather monitor. (Forgot to feed it batteries- duh)

I thoaght maybe the doc was not solidly wired,
so last evening I wired it an made sure all the contacts where solid.
Once done we had some solid wind come through...

I stood there and watched the doc live as the blades easily hit 200 rpm
Nothing...
not even a .1 volt on the doc.
It shows the info from the batteries but nothing from the turbine.
Is this because the turbines rectifier is directly tied to the battery
with the doc similary tied in but bridged?

If so because the doc is also under the same resistance
will the doc not display a single milivolt until cut in?

I don't understand what is wrong here?
I can take a picture of my set up if you guys think it may be do to stupid circuit work.
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[birdhouse]

SF-
a picture would help.  the doc wattson is meant to be inline with the wires between the rectifier and the battery.  actually i think it is inline with just the negative wire between the battery and rectifier. 

no, it won't show anything until the turbine reaches cut in. 

[Steadfast]

SF-
a picture would help.  the doc wattson is meant to be inline with the wires between the rectifier and the battery.  actually i think it is inline with just the negative wire between the battery and rectifier. 

no, it won't show anything until the turbine reaches cut in.

Shaaawooo... so I didn't mess it up... GREAT! 
It just sucks that you have to wait for cut in...

BTW: I feed batteries to my weather station located on my mast... here are todays ALARMING numbers!


108f can you believe it!
 It is insain hot ot there!

[sean_ork]

check the wiring SF

I find it rather hard to believe that your area had enough wind to blow trees down yet even that wasn't enough to get an amp out of the mill

maybe a hand draw diagram would be better

[Valalvax]

1.1 MPH winds, better make sure the storm flaps are closed, that's a hell of a breeze

[Steadfast]

I hung out with a friend today who happens to be a electic engineer.
and we put togeather ghurt's load dump kit.
He had never built a load dump before...
he was like a kid in a candy store while do it too.

Ill post pictures tomarrow morning.
and you guys can tell me how we did.

[birdhouse]

i'm still confused that your doc wattson (if hooked up correctly) didn't have didly for output from the 60mph winds??? 

did you have your EE buddy take a look at that also?  an easy way to check would be to pull a running car up to the shed, and run it's battery through the doc wattson.  14.4 versus (probably) lower shed bank voltage would definitely yield some results through the unit. 

it would be nice for all forum members to see what a proper axial can occasionally do in a low wind area! 

keep up the good work!

adam

[Steadfast]

Here are the load dump photos in order of production.

My friend Tom (left) the Electrical Device Engineer and computer hardware guru and me (right).


Plans for Ghurd's groovy load dump and control system:










Adding "Flyback" Diods

Flyback Effect schematic


Adding the FETs onto aluminum frame (which will act as a heatsink)




Now all I have to do is install it high on the inside of my shed's wall
and hook it up to the battery.

let me know how we did....
.

[Steadfast]

I am hopeing that GHurd will take these photos and my installation photos (comming)
and start a new (step by step) thread about how to build a proper load dump.

[dave ames]

Hey Steadfast,

What a nice job you guys did on that dump load..Looks super!
I make it to be about 320 watts at your 12 volt nominal system (~14.4v)

Hope others may comment on this..um..I'd be worried about having all the FET tabs (the drains) connected together via the aluminum frame? May be a non issue but that frame will be electrically 'hot' giving us one giant dump load instead of the four seperate dump load sections we planned on..so heads up there.

You've really come a long way with this project and it's been a joy to watch your progress.

All good fun!
cheers, dave

[gww]

I sure am glad you posted these pictures of your dump load as I am about to build one simular and this really helps. 
Thanks
gww

PS I am curious about dave's comment also,

[just-doug]

i see your wiring problem.you are not retifing proper.you are not using the negitive terminal on the retifier and have a incomelpete  ciricut,no power.you should have three wires comeing down the tower.one for each fase of the generator.each of these wires goes to its own rectifier,on the ac terminals.the brack switch,if you are using one will be on the ac side.this completes the ac side.on the retifiers,the positives are connectedin paralled to the positive battery terminal.the negitives are connected parralled to the battery negitive terminal.if you use a doc wattson meter,it is used inline between the rectifiers and the battery.this is all in the book you you have.do more home work.

[niall2]

the physical connections of the drains dont seem clear alright ...i,m sure Tom would like his nice work to have the full details in the post ....

 ...maybe best to get the diagrams right ( that is ...the actual layout you personally use ) ...the first diagram looks like an ametek type alt with a blocking diode ?...but yours is a three phase axial mill ?

[JW]

I looked at this closer earlier today, and I think the dumpload is isolated from the frame, even the steel washers inbetween the resistors are isolated since he is tieing into the connection tabs of the resistors.

Heatsinking to the frame with the mosfets "should be ok" but a strip of formica insulator most likely should be used where he's using the silicone putty and bolting to the frame.

JW

[niall2]

mmm...." most likely " .. i think most likely and fets dont get on very well ....its either needed or not

it is a very nice dump load Tom built ....but the devils in the detail for anyone copying  it in six months  (or two years ) time ?

its a long thread ...but the first diagram seems to have nothing to do with Steadfast, s actuall mill ...

[Steadfast]

Here it is installed HIGH up (out of reach) on my sheds wall.




The Dump Load Control switch which comes on when my batteries fill up and hit 14.4v

[sean_ork]

i'm still confused that your doc wattson (if hooked up correctly) didn't have didly for output from the 60mph winds??? 

has this question been addressed yet ?

I asked the same, yet no apparent interest or even an acknowledgement that the wiring would be checked - 60mph winds would have produced plenty - nothing on the watts up - so where did that power go ?

How come the control systems are supposed to have been fully functional - the mill has been flying for a while ?

........ yet a dump and controller have only just been built ?

[Steadfast]

I thoaght maybe the doc was not solidly wired,
so last evening I wired it an made sure all the contacts where solid.

I did rewire it... then I was told I would see no data until cut in...
I am thinking about hooking up my running car both to test the doc and the dump load.
But where do I hook the car up to test those???

I have a much more mobil car battery charger, maybe I can use that instead?

As for the snide comment questioning why everything was not done yet:
what? Do I look like a clown hired to amuse you? Do you want a refund for your circus ticket?

I am just one guy with a job, a family, and a life who is not doing and posting all this, merely to entertain you.
I get things done as I get them done.
If you want it done faster or better, please, feel free to pm me for my address.
YOU can always drop by and do the work.... I'll watch and even buy the beer.
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[Frank S]

I thoaght maybe the doc was not solidly wired,
so last evening I wired it an made sure all the contacts where solid.

I did rewire it... then I was told I would see no data until cut in...
I am thinking about hooking up my running car both to test the doc and the dump load.
But where do I hook the car up to test those???

I have a much more mobil car battery charger, maybe I can use that instead?

As for the snide comment questioning way everything was not done yet:
what? Do you want a refund for you circus ticket?
I am just one guy with a job, a family, and a life who is not doing this, merely to entertain you.
I get things done as I get them done, if you want it done faster or better feel free to pm me for my address. YOU can always drop by and do the work.... I watch and even buy the beer.
.
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SF I think someone may have mentioned it might be a good idea to hook up a car battery to check the wiring of your Doc Watson, and maybe run your storage bank down some then charge it back up but I'm just a jafo that has watched this thread for a while now

[Steadfast]

I was referring to sean-orc, not you...
frank, you have been increadibly helpful and encouraging.

Do you think the car charger might work for testing?

[Frank S]

  I don't see why not, especially if your charger has a quick boost switch you need to get your input voltage higher than your battery bank but since I don't know much about the Doc Watson or the surge amperage capacity it is better to let  these guys who know how and when to use a 10 microfrad capacitor or a  1k resistor.
 to give you advice on that   

[birdhouse]

SF-
i asked the same questions as sean.  it wasn't meant to be in a "hurry the f up" sense, but rather trying to verify that you had made proper connections ect.  i can see from your photos that rectification isn't the problem, as you've got one of those all in one jobbies.  i like those!  if your batteries are, say 12.5v, and you hook your running car to the bank via the doc wattson, it should log peak watts, Wh ect. 

i'd just use jumper cables, or maybe jumper cables with a length of #10 hooked to them.  this will eliminate big ol metal jumper clamps around a high amp hour bank...     hook the positive on the car to the main positive on the bank, then the car negative to the non-bank side of the doc wattson.  you could also check your dump controller and dump load by turning the trim pot down to below 14.4.  then it should start dumping while your car is still "charging" the bank.  just make sure you re-set the trim pot after the experiment is finished. 

adam

[sean_ork]

As for the snide comment questioning why everything was not done yet:
what? Do I look like a clown hired to amuse you? Do you want a refund for your circus ticket?

SF with all due respects, people have been warning you ever since these threads started

I am the second person who has asked (at least 2 days ago) if the control sysstems are fully functional, you have either ignored those questions, or waffled about re-doing some connections.

You have still not proven the control systems, yet you apparently have time to spend building a dump load ...................... even thou the mill has been flying for many days.

That 60mph will have produced a decent amount of power - which could potentially have burnt your house to the ground.

I don't give a monkeys if you thought my comment was snide (it wasn't intended) - I am trying to protect you from harm.

Please read the following thread, and then consider lowering the mill until you are POSTIVE that the controls work correctly.

http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17188.0.html

[Bruce S]

SF
To test the doc watson , short the mill just like you would if you need to for a storm, disconnect the output from the 3-phase rectifier from the doc watson, hook your battery charger directly to the input side of the doc watson, (Being VERY careful NOT to short or connect backwards as it both will fry it).
Turn on battery charger and put in boost mode if you can, you should see incoming power ratings.
The screen should change every few seconds showing Amps, voltage , max amps, etc.
IF you do not see these, take a pic of the doc watson with input and out connections if you can and post, let put this question to rest.

GM MODE POST

ALL 
Let's remember this is a long thread and a great many things have been worked through both here and via PM/emails.
Let's get back to being civil !!
Bruce S

[Frank S]

good answer

[sean_ork]

good answer

I much preferred your now deleted reply 

I'd say the same but coming from me apparently it would have been seen as a snide remark - I also hope nothing gets burnt.

[Steadfast]

I have not been able to do anything because I am at work until 5pm, (it is now 1pm)
But I do have ways of clearifying what I have done with the Doc Wattson hook up.

I hope this clearifies things...

Here is an older photo of my rectifier hook up, before I connected the doc:
(while I had some decent wind I used the the kill switch and it totally works great)


Here is a drawing of what I did with the doc:
(After I rewired it...AFTER the storm)


Both, the heavy battery wires, and the doc's lines, are hard soldered into the output of the rectifier.

Will it damage the rectifier if I hook the battery charger also to the output of the rectifier to conduct my test?

------------
someone just PMed me this:

That Doc Wattson is wired in parallel with the battery cables. It needs to be wired in series with the negative line. Look at the instructions closely and use the 3 wire connection method.

I dont have the doc's instructions anymore,
If he is right, can someone draw a picture of what he is talking about?
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[Steadfast]

SF-
you could also check your dump controller and dump load by turning the trim pot down to below 14.4.  then it should start dumping while your car is still "charging" the bank.  just make sure you re-set the trim pot after the experiment is finished. 

adam

Should I unhook the dump load cables from the batteries
and hook them directly into the charger to test the dump load?

The "trim Pot" you are referring to must be inside the black switch box.
What does the Trim pot look like and how would I adjust it?
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[Bruce S]

SF;
I can be frustrating when "WORK" <-there's that four letter word again> gets in the way 
The pic/drawing of the doc with batteries is a bit confusing , but the PMer is correct. The DOC needs to be in series, so if/when you can disconnect that 2nd battery and see if you start seeing changes.
I too am at work and can't take a pic of what my hook up is, but I will once I'm home about 7ish your time.
Bruce S

[Frank S]

in my post that I had edited because after posting it I saw that Bruce had made  a post that was more important than what I had.
 But my concerns now after seeing the pics of the burned out dump load location is  what SF's dump load is mounted on.
 It is pretty common knowledge what I think about wood structures so I wont go there
 I would prefer to see the dump load assembly and all of the other electrical bits  mounted on a panel inside at least a type 1 nema switch gear enclosure
 But that is just my being anal about fire & safety

[Steadfast]

If this diagram is correct: (i use the top photo)


The "battery" in the diagram is the DC comming out of my rectifier... 
and the "DC Inverter" is my battery bank.
I then forget the switch and just keep the red line in a solid + line...
and
All I have to do is disconnect only the positive wire comming out of the Doc ("to load")
and my doc will begin to measure all incomming info because it is no longer under load...

From this:


To This:


Is that right?
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[Bruce S]

SF;
After looking at the cool pic you put up, I can now tell why you're NOT getting numbers from the mill  .
You have the source of power from the battery. The source should be hooked over on the output of the rectifier. The load then goes to the battery.
Since the mill will not be a continuous source , you may need to keep the aux battery connection hooked up, but maybe not.
Disconnect the ALL wires from the doc watson from the system completely, put the mill into safe mode (meaning short the system, throw the switch  ). Connect source wires to output of rectifier , then load to battery, if it seeing enough juice from battery it'll light and you won't need the aux battery.
Return mill to normal and IF there's wind enough you may be numbers moving along.
Once you get home of course.
I have to make a call to Australia to help a nurse transmit EKG data tonight so I may still be at work when you get this completed 
I try staying with you on this tonight otherwise PM me:-)

Bruce S