Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.

[Mastiffman]

Hi SF.
Buy a chainsaw and cut the trees .
Good for the turbine and panels .

 +1

 You could use the wood for the gasifier...

[Bruce S]

SF;
I for one am glad to see those batteries up to the correct voltages.
Nice!
Bruce S

[fabricator]

That's usually the first thing I look at hen I glance at a doc, those batts a a lot happier.

[Mastiffman]

SF;
I for one am glad to see those batteries up to the correct voltages.
Nice!
Bruce S
[/quote


 Very True.

[Steadfast]

on sunday:
I lowered my turbine to fix my wind meter to work better and repainted the turbine's tips red.

The two solar panels were pulling in 135 watts, the batteries loaded upto 14.25 volts and my load dump switch came on and the dump sytem was instantly painful hot, but not burning hot to the touch, (that yellow light was a-flicker-in) all day LONG...  ghurd's load control switch works GREAT....   You guys should all buy one or two from him! 
(I the wind turbine only cut in breifly ... like 2 seconds...)

I want to use that electricity for more than running a dump...

I still have that 35 feet of that 14awg wire... It is long enough to reach my Chicken coop too...
I know my chickens would LOVE to have a few fans running on them in the summer and perhaps some small heaters in the winter. I would also like to be able to light up the chicken coop or the coop's side shed at night from time to time.

So here are my NEW wireing idea plans...
The top drawing is using the inverter I already own inside my sealed shed with a outlet switch in the shed.
The bottom drawing shows a new 2nd inverter inside the shed as which also is the on/off switch. The difference is that the top one requires that I unlock my shed to switch on the inverter everytime I want to run the coop. The bottom all I gotta do is switch the power on on in the scoop shed.

and now, my questions... I can not decide which one to do...

The coop side shed has only chicken wire as one of it's walls and no door, would that pose a moisture problem for a new 1600 watt cobra inverter if I added one in the coop shed? (why the 1600 watt cobra inverter: I might as well be able to run power tools at the coop as well)  The PVC houses the wire and is buried. if i use the top plans can i simply leave the inverter on forever inside the locked power shed?



Site informitive photos:

Two "young bird" and/or "Bad bird" holding pens inside the coop shed.
(new product of my wife's recent honey do list)
you can see the chicken wire wall that seperates the side shed from the chicken run.


The out side of the finished side shed:



For fun, here is a link to a video tour of my coop before the new chicken holding pens where added into the coop's side shed...
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146857.0.html
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[fabricator]

It's perfectly fine to just run a circuit off your breaker box in the main shed to the chicken coop, you really don't need conduit either you could get direct burial, I go 12/2 w/g if you are thinking about a possible heater.
I believe the NEC says at least 30" deep, with that red danger tape buried above it.

[hiker]

SF     now who really built that coop ?????  [honey]
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xBiSp6rQM0&feature=player_embedded

[birdhouse]

as fab states, you're far better running ac out to the shed.  in case you're not aware, 12VDC does not travel well.  play around with a voltage drop calculator.  guessing the run would be ~45' TOTAL.  1500w inverter with 4/0 copper would get you close to an acceptable voltage drop.... 

12/2 UF w/ground can be directly buried.  that'd be my choice!

adam

[Steadfast]

SF     now who really built that coop ??  [honey]
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xBiSp6rQM0&feature=player_embedded

yeah, Thats a pretty cool video...
ya just can't complain about haveing to watch a babe in a bikini doing carpentry work!
And ... She did a fantastic job of it too!
Although, I wore steel toed boots when building mine...

BTW: I really liked the part when she is installing the roof... 
OUCH!   
Now, That was pretty darn hot...
But I think she knew that too...
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.

[Steadfast]

as fab states, you're far better running ac out to the shed.  in case you're not aware, 12VDC does not travel well.  play around with a voltage drop calculator.  guessing the run would be ~45' TOTAL.  1500w inverter with 4/0 copper would get you close to an acceptable voltage drop.... 

12/2 UF w/ground can be directly buried.  that'd be my choice!

adam

Well then if AC travels better, maybe I should just go with The first option?
This way I convert my DC into AC before I send it to the coop.



so are you guys saying I dont need to sheath the 14awg in PVC pipe?


BTW: This is all STILL "Honey do" list activities...
To her credit, my wife asked me when I was going to get around to getting that robot servo made into the "LBIRD".
I told her as soon as you release me from "honey do bond servant" status...
She said.... "Soon, but not yet."
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[birdhouse]

there is a few ways to get power from A to B via underground. 

1)12/2 UF (underground feeder?)  this is gray jacketed cable that is rated for direct burial with no conduit.  though i think it is supposed to be 30" down. 

2) pvc conduit with whatever wire you want to shove into it.  i think it is supposed to be 18" down?? 

though you have a scrap of 14/2, it really is pretty thin wire.  it will give you ~15A @ 120v worth of "coop" power.  you had mentioned using the dump function of your controller to create options in the coop.  if that's the case, you're back to running 12v (14v) out there, and that 14/2 isn't going to carry squat at that voltage and wire length.

there are ways with relays and a dedicated dump inverter to get 120v out there as a pure dump function, though that gets expensive and a bit tricky.  i also don't think you've got the dump wattage available to do much with it anyways. 

back to one of your original thoughts, i'd paralell a 12v light bulb with a separate mosphet like a porch light for the shed.  this way, if it's a windy night time storm, you can atleast look out the window and see a light and know at a glance that your batteries are full!  atleast, that way, you'll get some small "feature" while you're wasting that excess power. 

adam

[Steadfast]

there is a few ways to get power from A to B via underground. 

2) pvc conduit with whatever wire you want to shove into it.  I think it is supposed to be 18" down?? 

adam

I think I will go with this option... Simply because I HATE digging!

you had mentioned using the dump function of your controller to create options in the coop.  if that's the case, you're back to running 12v (14v) out there, and that 14/2 isn't going to carry squat at that voltage and wire length.

I don't understand why this is the case...   
A simple lawn drop/extension cord will run my biggest power tools out at the coop, off my other powered shed, and that drop cord is thinner than my 14/2.

One is hard wiered and buried (14AWG) , the other is merely plugged in and laying on the ground (drop cord)...
What's the difference?   

there are ways with relays and a dedicated dump inverter to get 120v out there as a pure dump function, though that gets expensive and a bit tricky.  I also don't think you've got the dump wattage available to do much with it anyways. 
adam

nah... you misunderstood me...
I want to be able to use the power to benifit the chickens,
rather than just wasting it on the Load Dump

Sure, I want to hook up the coop, but not thru the load dump controller.

So if I can use that electricity during the day to run some coop fans and the like,
I might be able to keep my batteries near full, while hopefully keeping the load dump from needing to ever come on during the daytime.

[fabricator]

Do NOT use a separate ground rod at the coop, there must be only one ground on the breaker box your inverter is hooked to, branch circuits do not get separate ground rods.

[Bruce S]

SF;
 I'm a little confused by the post of wanting to use the dump(ed) power versus using the power.
Do you (A) want the fans to only come on when the controller is dumping? or (B) use some trickle power to run a few let's say muffin fans for the birds in the summer then heat in winter?
Can you clarify ?

[birdhouse]

I don't understand why this is the case...   
A simple lawn drop/extension cord will run my biggest power tools out at the coop, off my other powered shed, and that drop cord is thinner than my 14/2.

One is hard wiered and buried (14AWG) , the other is merely plugged in and laying on the ground (drop cord)...
What's the difference?   

12VDC versus 120VAC.  there's ~10X the power carrying ability with 120v compared to 12v.  trying to run any distance with any amps with 12v is either futile, or very expensive with lots of copper. 

why not just use a GFCI protected extension cord for the coop usage?  simple, easy, and cheap!

adam

[DamonHD]

SF: I think you should probably assume that you won't have much spare energy when you most would like it (eg cold and dark and not windy), so just dumping it may be cheapest and safest (since your dump must never fail when it is needed).

Just to keep this in perspective.

Rgds

Damon

[Mary B]

take 1200 watts at 120 volts, it is 10 amps, take 1200 watts at 12 volts it is 100 amps. As current draw rises voltage drop goes up. 14/2 is no where near rated for carrying 12 volts to an inverter unless it is a little 300 watt unit and even then the voltage drop may be to high.

[fabricator]

I think he's past the DC thing, he's just too cheap to buy 50' of 12/2 wg romex.

[Steadfast]

SF;
 I'm a little confused by the post of wanting to use the dump(ed) power versus using the power.
Do you (A) want the fans to only come on when the controller is dumping? or (B) use some trickle power to run a few let's say muffin fans for the birds in the summer then heat in winter?
Can you clarify ?

I have abandoned the idea of useing the load dump controller for anything but the load dump I've aready built.

Now that I know DC wont make the 35 ft trip.
I plan to connect the coop to an underground AC line coming out of my inverter, which I have already installed inside my otherpower shed. I just have to remember to turn on the inverter on sunny forcaste days, and use low wattage AC fans inside my coop so I don't overdraw my batteries. 

hmmmm, lets assume I turn on the coop... go to work... and the day becomes overcaste, contrary to the "sunny  Forcast" that day....  Is there some sort of switch that will automatically shut off the power coming out of my inverter before my batteries get overdrawn by the fans in the coop?  Do you guys think my inverter may already have this feature?

[Steadfast]

I think he's past the DC thing, he's just too cheap to buy 50' of 12/2 wg romex.

yup... 

[DamonHD]

It's called low voltage dropout (LVD).  But usually set much too low to be what you want.  There's a gulf between dumping excess and cutting off because you're about to ruin your batteries, maybe the difference between 90% and 10% of usable stored capacity (even if ~95% and 55% of theoretical lead-acid capacity).

Rgds

Damon

[Steadfast]

I wonder if Ghurd could design a low voltage dropout (LVD). 
that can be dialed down to shut off at a certain a voltage level, via a "trim Pot",
much like his load dump switch which has a "trim Pot" and can be dialed to turn on the load dump when the batteries hit any point (like 14.25V),  but works backwards.

[tanner0441]

Hi

The inverter I have is 600W pure sine wave and it switches off when the battery gets to 11.5 V OK to protect the inverter but lethal for the batteries. I only witnessed it once when I forgot to switch the inverter off, I clipped a battery charger conditioner on it very quickly. Does your Doc Watson have a programable low battery alarm on it? At least if it's making a noise you may have a chance.

Brian.

[Steadfast]

my cobra inverter already does that...
It puts out an alarm when the batteries hit 55%.
(I know this because I was there when it happened) "hey, whats that sound?"

I just want it to shut off instead of just making the alarm buzz...

I wonder how that can be done.
It is obvious that a switch of some sort is being automatically thrown to make the alarm sound,
why can't that switch be modified to turn the thing off...?

[gww]

I know you want to use wind power but,  this seems like a perfect situation for a low power solar fan?  Not sure about heat.
gww

[Steadfast]

I just started a thread, in the control section, to discuss the development of a low voltage dropout switch divice...

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146979.0.html

[DamonHD]

gww: I think you could be onto something there...

Rgds

Damon

[fabricator]

This is how I dump power, on the AC side where it can actually be used for something, http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/relay-driver  The thing is almost limitless in what it will do. You simply hook it to your batteries and through a lap top give it the parameters you want it to trigger a relay and it does what ever you want it to do, it's got four channels, each channel infinitely programmable.
When my 24 volt bank reaches a set point the driver triggers a relay that turns on 120 volt water heater elements in a water tank using 120 volts directly from my main inverter.
It would do exactly what you want it to do, but, of course it's a LOT more expensive than Glens controller, but like I said the settings are infinite.

[Steadfast]

I agree...

you see,
Glenn already makes a trim pot dialible control switch which turns something on...
how hard would it be for Glenn to make a trim pot dialible control switch which turns something off???

[fabricator]

Take the inverter apart, find the alarm, take it out and substitute a normally closed relay, then run one of the on off switch wires with it the relay.

[Mastiffman]

gww: I think you could be onto something there...
Rgds
Damon

This is how I dump power, on the AC side where it can actually be used for something, http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/relay-driver  The thing is almost limitless in what it will do. You simply hook it to your batteries and through a lap top give it the parameters you want it to trigger a relay and it does what ever you want it to do, it's got four channels, each channel infinitely programmable.
When my 24 volt bank reaches a set point the driver triggers a relay that turns on 120 volt water heater elements in a water tank using 120 volts directly from my main inverter.
It would do exactly what you want it to do, but, of course it's a LOT more expensive than Glens controller, but like I said the settings are infinite.

Take the inverter apart, find the alarm, take it out and substitute a normally closed relay, then run one of the on off switch wires with it the relay.

No way Fab. It's Definitely possible and good idea. BUT, it's either "G Dubs" Idea with Solar Fans, as I have Solar Lighting on my Shed (only good really for night applications, whicha re few and far between.) and a 45LED 60ft Distance, Motion Detector Flood Light on my Garage ($35 at costco a year or so ago) that are Perfect in design and would be a great idea for SF's Coop Girls! OR the Sweet little "Relay Driver" that you linked in...

 SF, In all due respect friend, you can hope for perfect sun and wind all day, but in real world conditons, I honestly think that you won't get much IF Any at all dumping if you are visiting your shed off and on. Maybe, just maybe if you are not doing anything during the week and let whatever watts charge up your Batt-Bank and then dump into this Coop Situation that you are thinking of... But When will it be? how often? You are seriously better off getting some little solar power fans to do the job! I seriously think that you and the Coop Girls will be better off taking this path.

 Why waste so much time trying to figure out something that there has already been rememdies suggested for? You will free up more of your time (and time for the Honey-Dip) wityh the remedies. You may even get some "points" for it in the end for saving headache, cash and time! Trust me!! Working Hard is a good thing, but working Smart is So much more productive!

[Bruce S]

SF;
In the case of LVD, I have got to say what the old timers would've said already  .
GOOGLE is your friend!
Go look over in the control section, search for LVD, you'll see that the GHURD gold standard as been able to be built as a LVD for a bunch of years ago!!
Meaning YES the GHURD already can do that!!
He's a very busy person this year, so he may NOT be reading or keeping up on these, drop him a PM or email.
while waiting for a reply go searching/reading the control section , it's ALL there 
Bruce S

[Steadfast]

cool thanks...