Author Topic: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project  (Read 80122 times)

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skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2015, 08:20:11 PM »
Welded the wheel arms and the generator mount on the cantilever pipe...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2015, 04:07:16 PM »
Top works mounted on temporary work stand. The cantilever boom pipe will slide through this piece and be permanently welded. This will allow rotation to move the wheel out of the water via a hydraulic cylinder mounted on the top works, as well as the ability to swivel on the two flanges to rotate the boom 180 to take the wheel on and off on the shore.


Just turn your head sideways to imagine this (can't get picture to rotate  :-[...)

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #92 on: October 25, 2015, 08:16:00 PM »
Cantilever pipe assembled to top works. The topworks has a 36 inch stroke hydraulic cylinder (not connected yet) to turn the waterwheel arms down into the water or up into the air. Counterweights go onto the far right. I have to weld two pieces of angle length wise along the far right end end to provide an anti-rotational key for the counterweights, as well as a stop to make sure they don't go on too far.

 The counterweights will not only balance the weight of the wheel and generator on the opposite side of the pipe, but will balance the weight of the wheel in a rotational manner as well.

This was fun to put together myself with my tractor... ;)

MattM

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #93 on: October 26, 2015, 12:23:28 AM »
You certainly enjoy heavy metal.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #94 on: October 26, 2015, 02:04:15 AM »
You certainly enjoy heavy metal.

I like all music ;D

When dealing with water, components have to be very strong. The combination of parts are now too heavy for my tractor to lift. I'll need to crane it into position now...

andreiandrei53

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #95 on: October 26, 2015, 02:24:38 AM »
Nice job! It looks pretty neat  ;)

I'm following this topic with great interest. Will it be running by Christmas?

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #96 on: October 26, 2015, 02:17:02 PM »
I'll need to crane it into position now...

Yeah, no surprise there; you accepted the $$$ risk.  Glad to see a very real example of perseverance.  Not sure I like that long force moment hanging out that far.  Better double up (or more) on the cement base; better yet, pile drive deep into the bank and pour around that.   There be tremendous forces on that three-footed base at high flow

Turtle
soli deo gloria

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2015, 07:53:41 PM »
Not sure I like that long force moment hanging out that far.  Better double up (or more) on the cement base; better yet, pile drive deep into the bank and pour around that.   There be tremendous forces on that three-footed base at high flow

Turtle

It's 12 feet from the centerline of the pivot to the centerline of the wheel. It will hang quite a ways out into the water into flow that is undisturbed by the river bank to generate maximum power.

In regards to the long lever arm, I've been thinking of that too. I will tie in the foundation well into the side of the riverbank with a couple of deadman type anchors  with additional concrete and rebar.

Since I will have to make access for a crane by having to remove a few trees, I can get an excavator in as well to dig a larger foundation. I can also back in a cement truck so I don't have to mix by hand or pump it.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2015, 07:56:46 PM »
Nice job! It looks pretty neat  ;)

I'm following this topic with great interest. Will it be running by Christmas?

Yes it will be running by Christmas, 2016 that is :D

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2015, 11:41:40 PM »
This is the underside of the slide plate that will fit on top of the slotted plate attached to the cantilever pipe. The guides on the side of the slide plate will keep the generator aligned, and the jacking bolts will allow controlled tensioning of the v belts.

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #100 on: October 29, 2015, 04:46:39 AM »

Since I will have to make access for a crane by having to remove a few trees, I can get an excavator in as well to dig a larger foundation. I can also back in a cement truck so I don't have to mix by hand or pump it.

Crane, excavator, cement truck... cha-ching!$!

Like I said, I really, REALLY admire your determination

Turtle
soli deo gloria

MattM

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #101 on: October 29, 2015, 08:17:23 AM »
You going to hot drip protect the exterior of the steel or leave it to weather?

Frank S

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #102 on: October 29, 2015, 11:33:10 AM »
I don't ordinarily do this very much  But when it comes to the subject of galvanizing when folks think about having that done there are several things to be considered prior to any assembly or welding where other parts are to be latter attached.
 All hole tolerances must be relaxed to allow for the thickness of the process the same goes for welding assemblies. It is not so much that the process adds extra thickness but the zinc  has a way of not draining off or building up in areas that you least expect it
  Afterwards having to grind or re drill defeats the integrity of the coating.
 
 Other and often as good and sometimes better than hot dipping is simply painting with high quality paint.
  It is best to sandblast then prime then top coat but even this is not always possible.
  When sand blasting is not in the equation (which by the way should be done prior to hot dipping as well), there are products that convert scale and surface rust to serve as a base for primer. there are also products that will etch or remove most surface rust and scale.   
I've had great success with KBS products When possible I sand blast but other times I just use the KBS rustblast to remove the rust and scale then prime with their primer and top coat with their paints also for those areas where it is impossible to get paint into they have a product called cavity coater which is the same exact stuff as the Mil spec product used in cavities on military equipment and aircraft.
 for more information you can contact a very knowledgeable friend of mine through his web site. IF he doesn't know the answers to a question he will get them for you
http://kbs.justoldtrucks.com/

Frank S, I hope you don't mind! I changed the word from pain to paint :), though it can be a pain to paint sometimes ;-)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 12:00:45 PM by Bruce S »
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

bcalmed

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2015, 01:25:48 PM »
What about the possibilty of an upstream anchor - a large tree, for instance. Maybe with a laid-down sort of gin pole arrangement to allow for movement of the main boom.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2015, 09:25:23 PM »
The wheel is aluminum and stainless steel, so no coatings required there. The carbon steel parts are being coated with POR 15 paint which I have found to be very excellent metal paint. I got some on my fingers a week ago when I was painting and I still haven't got it off ::). It does need a top coat as it isn't UV stable...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #105 on: October 29, 2015, 09:33:54 PM »
What about the possibilty of an upstream anchor - a large tree, for instance. Maybe with a laid-down sort of gin pole arrangement to allow for movement of the main boom.

 Regarding the operation of the boom, it will pivot 180 degrees on the support post or stand, so I can put the wheel on land for servicing or removal. In addition, the hydraulics will rotate the boom so the wheel raises and lowers on the headworks as well.  Once I have it all assembled you can see what the final design is.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #106 on: October 29, 2015, 09:43:17 PM »

Since I will have to make access for a crane by having to remove a few trees, I can get an excavator in as well to dig a larger foundation. I can also back in a cement truck so I don't have to mix by hand or pump it.

Crane, excavator, cement truck... cha-ching!$!

Like I said, I really, REALLY admire your determination

Turtle

Good thing my neighbor has a crane and excavator. He owes me a few favors ;D

bcalmed

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #107 on: October 30, 2015, 04:10:09 PM »
What about the possibilty of an upstream anchor - a large tree, for instance. Maybe with a laid-down sort of gin pole arrangement to allow for movement of the main boom.

 Regarding the operation of the boom, it will pivot 180 degrees on the support post or stand, so I can put the wheel on land for servicing or removal. In addition, the hydraulics will rotate the boom so the wheel raises and lowers on the headworks as well.  Once I have it all assembled you can see what the final design is.

I meant as a less expensive substitute for driiing to the center of the earth for the post....

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2015, 10:31:29 PM »
Having difficulty attaching pictures. I built the counterweight mount which is welded to the opposite end of the pipe as the water wheel. unfortunately I cannot attach pictures of it for some reason...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 10:37:37 PM by skid »

DamonHD

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #109 on: November 09, 2015, 02:28:07 AM »
Are the images big?

Remember that some users of this site are on dial-up, so there is a size limit.

Rgds

Damon

MattM

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #110 on: November 09, 2015, 08:26:31 AM »
Shrink them down using something like Faststone Image Viewer.  You can down sample from 5MB to 100K pretty much by shrinking them down to 1024 pixel width at 95% JPEG quality.  You can drop JPEG quality and shrink them under 50K if you play with the settings.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #111 on: November 11, 2015, 02:02:22 PM »
I reduced the pictures to 53kb each and get the following message which I also got previously:

Your attachment couldn't be saved. This might happen because it took too long to upload or the file is bigger than the server will allow.

Please consult your server administrator for more information.


DamonHD

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #112 on: November 11, 2015, 03:16:22 PM »
Hi,

I believe that some file area is full, but it is invisible to me.  (I see the errors logged but have no levers to pull to fix them.)  Someone else is on the case, but I don't know when this will be fixed.

Rgds

Dmon

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #113 on: November 15, 2015, 07:31:51 PM »
 The anti rotation angles are being fit onto counterweight section of the boom. the counterweight is used as a template. The small pieces of angle on the end will be used to help align the counterweight piece to the main pipe when I weld it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 07:39:10 PM by skid »

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #114 on: November 15, 2015, 07:34:08 PM »
The counterweight piece welded onto the main boom with one counterweight installed... The tapped holes in the end are for a cap which will secure the counterweights. Looking from the end one can see how it will equalize the weight of the wheel from a raising/lowering persepective, as well as equalizing the weight on either side of the center pivot.

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #115 on: November 18, 2015, 10:51:38 PM »
Having difficulty attaching pictures

This works well also

http://www.fotosizer.com/

Turtle
soli deo gloria

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #116 on: November 22, 2015, 08:41:46 PM »
Today I installed the wheel onto the boom. basically rolled it into position, then raised the arms up. I had to remove all counterweights but one to be able to manually raise and lower the wheel arms by hand.

Once I had the bearings bolted up I installed four counterweights which still didn't provide enough force to lift the wheel. Until I prepare a few more counterweights and install them I have to raise the wheel withthe tractor and support it underneath.

Once the wheel was raised I adjusted the bearing clearances on each side so the wheel was centered in the frame. I then adjusted the pillow blocks so everything was square.

Spinning the wheel I note I have 1/2 inch run out. I'll play with the spokes to take that out. I'll get a couple of tiger torches (500000btu's each) and spin the wheel and heat the aluminum wheel to stress relieve it first.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #117 on: November 22, 2015, 08:48:06 PM »
Once side of the hub has a longer shaft to support the large 63" sheave. I greased both the sheave and the shaft and installed the sheave.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #118 on: November 22, 2015, 08:55:28 PM »
The sheave's bore is machined so 1/2 the width of the hub is a few thousands of an inch larger than the shaft to align it square on the shaft. The other 1/2 is machined to allow a taper locking device (Ringfeder) to lock it into position on the shaft.

Once I install the generator and align both sheaves I'll lock both sheaves onto their respective shafts. That'll be next weekend's project if the weather is decent.

thirteen

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #119 on: November 22, 2015, 09:31:52 PM »
well the drive be completely covered? What type of belt( s ) drive will you have? Just wondering. 13
MntMnROY 13