Author Topic: Building a 6kw pure sine wave inverter using power jack boards part2 the guts..  (Read 39078 times)

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joestue

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one option is add a second ct to divide the current.

oztules

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Jan04...........Use a torroid CT coil, so no current needs to pass the actual board...... the boards below use one instead of the CT from the PJ.
 
OK here are some pics, bill of material, pdf, and pics of the latest version.

It works first up, with no problems so far.... and I don't expect any..
This is probably the end of the road with this version.... works exceptionally well.

Next is the three chip version, followed by the pic chip version... and maybe the three phase version.

http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,1116.msg11540.html#msg11540


Hope it is useful to someone somewhere.

 I have not seen an inverter that can best this thing at driving all and any load or starting any equipment... simply amazing.

This will interface directly with the board Clockman is doing in this thread.... http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,148953.msg1037068.html#msg1037068

then just add batteries and transformer.


..............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

jan04

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oztules: "It works first up, with no problems so far.... and I don't expect any.."



... i see, indeed the circuit is very simple. i think it get envolved to be a big nail on powerjack coffin  ;D
i'm just in a hurry to order a couple of egs002

tnks
jan

oztules

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Ok we have moved right along since then

I have settled on this for the time being.
It does everything I want, others may want more/less.

1. It has on/off via pin 6
2. It has temp input as well for disaster situations where fan fails and temp gets out of hand
3. It has off board pins for power led
4. It has off board pins for status led
5. It uses a current transformer coil
6. It uses an isolation transformer for the voltage feed back.
7. It uses a simple voltage supply using the TIP35c... simple, and effective and fails off not on.

There are two things that I don't like particularly.

1. The voltage drifts in the first few minutes from say set 230 to 234v... then stabilizes rock solid at 234 or whatever you set for  plus 4 v after the first  5 minutes.

Can't find what is heating this up or what ever causes it. The heat gun makes no difference once stable... so maybe not heat but what else I can't say.
It is stupid simple, which makes finding the fault either dirt simple or impossible. ( inside chip)

2.If you slowly raise the voltage of the supply from 0v to 50v or so slowly, the chip hangs.... no idea why...but it is internal, and does it when you slowly introduce the power to it.
If you splat the terminals which is pretty standard, then no problems forever while it is connected to batteries.
I use a 10 ohm resistor to avoid the splat, and this is fine too, but if you go to say 100r, then it will charge up, but no action... so keep in mind.

Neither of these two problems are show stoppers by a long long way. The plus attributes easily out weigh these foibles, but they need to be mentioned.

Apart form that, these things are quick and simple to build, and run beautifully... and create no fuss , but just run anything thrown at them... really remarkable little devices.

I won't be going any further, as I cant see what else you could ask for in a home inverter. Those that like lots of bells and whistles designed to make them look very complex will be disappointed... they are simple, and work as well... in fact better than all I have encountered as a straight inverter.

It draws a very modest idle current ( 30 watts or so), and go for excursions over 10kw without any worry.... very very versatile.

Ok here is the final PCB I will use from now on

The board complete

9839-0

top left

9840-1

top right

9841-2

bottom left

9842-3

bottom right

9843-4

next post......


..... oztules



Flinders Island Australia

oztules

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Ok, the board proper.
1. The wires coming away from the little pins are the on/off pins.
2. The pins beside the led are the led off board pins for status.
3. The pins on the outside of the board next to the heat sink is the temp pins for a 10k@25c ntc.
4. The pins next to them nearer the chip board is the power on led... registers the 5v from the regulator.the chip side of the two pins .

Note... if you don't intend to use the temp pins, ground the temp pin ( the one thats not the 5v ). I suggest you use the pin and a ntc 10k@25c for a safety net in case of fan failure for whatever reason.

9849-0

It took a few boards to get here.... and they all work too....



And here in a aerosharp 3kw box for a little 4kw unit... still runs the house totally, and pulls 10kw start up power. very hard to beat .
Here it is running the house, and the hot water is on from the looks of it.. bit over 3kw


9846-2

And here with a few more kw... not much movement with the voltage really... It was to be a 240v machine, but I settled for 232v for better power usage.. not much of a change electrically, but saves the battery a bit of pain when these loads come on that are resistive in  nature. otherwise it would be over the 5kw by quite a margin for the hot water, electric jug fridge freezer tv and wall warts etc... all are on in this instance. That 8 or 10v means nothing to all other appliances, but it does take some of the shock out of it for the battery.

9847-3

It just works so well..... really....

Here is the pdf generated from the pcb program

* 80109f.pdf (69.43 kB - downloaded 204 times.)

It is unipolar at the moment, and I may have a stab at bipolar next, although nothing to gain except slight noise reduction perhaps, but have to try just to explore the last thing i can with this thing... it truly is amazing.


................oztules
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 06:08:59 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

oztules

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This may help too

9850-0
 
Gerbers... maybe help too.

* 80109f.GTO (66.72 kB - downloaded 125 times.)
* 80109f.GTL (4.62 kB - downloaded 105 times.)
* 80109f.GPM (4.54 kB - downloaded 95 times.)
* 80109f.GBL (34.39 kB - downloaded 107 times.)




...........oztules
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 06:16:21 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

Mary B

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How is it for RFI when you use a shortwave radio near it?

oztules

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Lousy if you don't use a filter on the output of the transformer Mary

.........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

Mary B

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Not good then... I searched long and hard for RFI quiet inverters... considering I can hear my own return echo off the moon on 2 meter ham radio I have very sensitive receivers!

oztules

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The only difference between all of them will be the filters.
They all essentially do the same jobs.

Luckily the grid tie units we get the transformers from have massive filter networks to pinch as well... so no problem then.

I had to do that with mine when I built my one valve regen set.


.............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

boB

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Nice work, Oz !

TDC

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I'm not sure yet whether some sort of web analogue meter display would be useful such as the Classic gauges display shown below.....

I haven't seen that before, is it a custom or new version of the MidNite Solar local status panel?

tytower

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Re: a 6kw pure sine wave inverter
« Reply #102 on: January 24, 2017, 04:38:22 PM »
A question for oztules.

I am wondering if connecting up a normal  grid tied inverter system but without any available grid to tie into .

Can I use a smaller inverter to make my own 240 V grid from my 24Volt battery system and connect the grid tie inverter to that grid and run normal 240 Volt appliances .

Thinking about it the grid tie inverter should be protected against any malfunction of the 24 Volt producing 240 Volt inverter and that inverter should be protected against current getting into it and destroying it .

Would this work ? Do you know of anybody that has done this or still does this ? and if it won't work , why not and what might the possible fix be please?

oztules

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Yes, but your small inverter would need to be a low frequency h bridge configuration like these ones. A normal light HF pure sine inverter will not work to charge the battery, but you may still cogenerate providing you don't generate more than the system is using.... as a HF cannot pass the extra energy to the battery.

..........oztules

Flinders Island Australia

tytower

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Yes, but your small inverter would need to be a low frequency h bridge configuration like these ones.

Thanks for responding so quickly. Did you mean to add a reference or could you add one  so I know what I am looking for . If I'm generating 2kwh's and at the time I am using say 1kwh you mean the excess has to go to battery charge or something will go bust ?  Is that right? but a " a low frequency h bridge configuration " would be able to handle it?

I'm suspecting you might mean I need to build one of your inverters above to do the job. I've been lurking ,watching from the start
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 06:18:10 PM by tytower »

joestue

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I believe many APC 24v or 48v ups could be run backwards (the sine wave ones marketed as smartups) And charge the battery from a grid tie inverter. The problem with them is the high parasitic load of about 15 watts per kilowatt capacity if you add an inductor. The second problem is the inverter passes dc current to the transformer (this makes up half of the parasitic load) so you cannot replace the TX with a much more efficient toroidal transformer.


So the simplest option is to pull the transformer and h bridge out of a smart ups and buy one of those 8010 sine wave inverter boards for 8$

tytower

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Perhaps I should ask my questions elsewhere and leave this thread for oztules inverter which I continue to read over , picking up little bits each time .I'm hoping to build one but I've got to grasp the basics first I think.

Quote
Posted by: joestue--So the simplest option is to pull the transformer and h bridge out of a smart ups and buy one of those 8010 sine wave inverter boards for 8$

Is it possible to get a bit more detail for this please? . I have a UPS but I don't think it is a "smart UPS" so I'll have to read up more on this . The board seems straight forward enough. Is this discussed in a thread hereabouts?

Harold in CR

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 I for one, would be very interested in learning how to build what tytower is asking about.

 Perhaps he could start a thread with all pertinent information and photos.

 I have 2 older 1500kva UPS's at 24V and would like to build a 24V battery to 120V ac unit to start.

 I'm hoping to use the xformers from both units and rewind them as one, if this will work out. I looked up the 8010 boards and sometimes they come with a 2002 board for $15.00 all in free shipping. Can't believe that is all the electronics needed to make a decent inverter.

 I recently bought a new energy saver fridge and that and the cap start clothes washer will be the biggest loads on the inverter I want to build.

 Also, just received a book of electronics for beginners by Forrest Mims, so, I'm determined to try to learn this stuff if I can get enough push from the excellent teachers on this site.

OperaHouse

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Start another thread for the mini inverter.  I just got another board in, left two at the camp last year.  I have a collection of old UPS transformers, but they are only about 200W from smaller units.  That with the fets from those units make a nice quickie inverter.  Also have two identical new GE 12/24-120/240 500W transformers I could put in parallel to make a 12-48V unit.

Here is something I think is a deal.  I bought a few of these to mount NANO boards on.  They are just two  pins short of mounting the EGS002 boards on.  Fortunately the last two pins are the fan pins and they could be bent to use other connectors.  The board could also be sliced in half for two units.  Skip the wire connectors and solder directly to the board.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112259266433?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

joestue

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 I for one, would be very interested in learning how to build what tytower is asking about.

 Perhaps he could start a thread with all pertinent information and photos.

 I have 2 older 1500kva UPS's at 24V and would like to build a 24V battery to 120V ac unit to start.

 I'm hoping to use the xformers from both units and rewind them as one, if this will work out. I looked up the 8010 boards and sometimes they come with a 2002 board for $15.00 all in free shipping. Can't believe that is all the electronics needed to make a decent inverter.

I have one of these boards (well, not exactly this one because i bought it several months ago)
the price i see right now is $4.74 and $1.85 shipping
www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-SPWM-Board-EGS002-EG8010-IR2110-Driver-Module-/331748857232

Harold, its likely that your older UPS has totem pole mosfet drivers. a 2n2222 and 2n2907 transistor with a 2n7000 to drive them.
The newer ones have a surface mount 16 pin H bridge driver, and i can't remember the part number.

Basically all you need to do is preserve the h bridge driver and cut the H bridge off the board. Add a second capacitor to the board because the ESR of the old one increases with age.

That egs002 drive board already has the IR2110 driver and it supposedly can deliver a peak current of 2 amps into the fets. this is good, but the problem is the inductance between the ir2110 drive board and the H bridge. it would be better to install the gate driver as close as possible to the h bridge.


there are some other details i will look into before speculating on the best way to handle the output voltage and current sensing.

I would not rewind those transformers, they aren't welded, but i've always experienced significantly higher eddy current losses whenever i take a core apart and put it back together, and i can't fit all the sheets into the original bobbin the second time anyway.

tytower

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I'm wondering if you have made any movement on this? I'm still trying to absorb the info in this thread but wish to make a system to run my own grid .

Harold in CR

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 I have been so busy digging my micro hydro storage pond, built an open design car shelter to be closed later, trying to learn how to hack OEM automotive motor controllers, and general farm maintenance, I just have not gotten into this inverter build.

 Too many projects, not enough time.  ::)

tytower

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I found a way to do this and a circuit but this clown administrator you have is a power hungry  prick so I won't bother posting it here .

joestue

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LOL.


DamonHD

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I found a way to do this and a circuit but this clown administrator you have is a power hungry  prick so I won't bother posting it here .

Was that me you were referring to, or one of my busy and unpaid colleagues?

Lovely attitude.

PS. Calling me the C-word in a PM is even lovelier.  Go away.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 03:49:40 AM by DamonHD »

OperaHouse

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I'm still trying to get my EGS board to work! I had bought a couple boards and just needed to add some FET.  Months passed and nothing never got built.  Hey, I'll just buy the cheap 2KW kit and there will be no reason I can't just build it up.  It is still on the shelf partly built, like I need another inverter. Working on the camps structural issues has left me dead tired at the end of the day.

Amish_Fighter_Pilot

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Wow this unit looks far nicer and is far more powerful than my Magnum Energy ME2012(which is modified sine unfortunately). I wish I had the time and skills to build some of these for our place. We're almost certainly going to need some serious inverter capacity if we're going to stay off-grid long term. We're being denied service by the power company right now so we'll see how that plays out, but if we could raise some money to buy a couple of these off of you that would be sweet.