Author Topic: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"  (Read 10665 times)

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clockmanFRA

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The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« on: June 04, 2016, 03:12:52 AM »
The Book, "MAKING A 6kW OZINVERTER" is now available.

There are 2 options,.....

.................. 'The Book' and the Supplement, 'Making the PCB's', etch masks, components & parts lists etc'

.................. 'The Book, the Supplement, Making the PCB's, ........ And includes the 3 commercially made double sided PCB's, The New '6-15kW Power Board', the New 'OzControl Board' and the New 'OzCooling Board'

 http://www.echorenovate.com/new-book--make-a-6kw-inverter.php

I have tried to keep the cost as low as possible to cover the Colour printing, P+P and PCB costs.
Small quantities of printing are expensive, and the New Power Board is large at A4 size and has extra thick copper at 70um and is therefore costly.

We here at 'echorenovate', are not a commercial organization so this Inverter Project is not our main concern. But folk like 'Oztules helped me, so we are helping others, that is our philosophy here.

I have 3 young boys still at school so maybe in the future I can get them to do bags of parts.

I will update the Web site with amendments as necessary.  Mrs has let me loose on that so that's been fun ?.....! Yes, I see some mistakes, but I have to go into town to get a faster internet speed to update!....

 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 03:23:45 AM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2016, 04:46:33 AM »
The additional "PCB making Supplement".

Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

electrondady1

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2016, 07:26:39 AM »
congratulations


ontfarmer

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2016, 08:00:50 AM »
  I second that.

Mary B

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2016, 03:04:20 PM »
Your PC board prices are reasonable actually!

mab

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2016, 03:53:38 PM »
brilliant!  :)

kitestrings

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2016, 09:38:11 PM »
Ditto.  Nice work and a lot of it from observations.  Glad to see you and Oz persevered despite critics (well maybe it was just one).  Often it is more satisfying this way.  ~ks

oztules

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2016, 11:07:12 PM »
Well things never go according to plan... this is no exception.

The unit works very well as a stand alone unit, which was what was intended by the manufacturers of the EG8010 chips...... and we proved they were right, as a stand alone  power unit up to a 4 or 5 or more kw it is stable and very useful.

Given more fets and bigger transformer, it gets to be very useful, and will easily run any off grid house and a lot more.

A lot of testing was done with local loads up to and well above 10kw peaks, and 5kw continuous for 20 mins or more etc etc.... unit performs very well with very good voltage stability.

Even as loads are added in the multi kw range, it is within a volt or so... and really perform well above expectations..... and it is about here the wheels fell off.

Wet weather has arrived, and with it a change to operability?????? how so?

Local loads of up to 5kw or more still seemed fine, but if I connected the house to it now... even without flipping on the connection o/load... ie no load and only the earth/neutral connected... the voltage went haywire.. from 240 to 120 and a few places in between depending what and how you played with it... and here was why.

This is a problem. No ,matter how I tried, I could not get the voltage to be stable from idle unconnected to idle connected.

If I connected and THEN used the trimmer to get the 240v, it worked reasonable well with it's stability.... now down to 10v or so.... but stll I was not amused.
What went wrong, and why now and not before... well here it is.

This is the EG8010 circuit for the AC voltage sensing.



Notice the voltage divider formed from the 100k resistors, and then they ground one side , and sense the other..... I always wondered about the stability of this, but discounted my fears as it worked so well on the local loads... and in the dry, the house loads were only a little bit out, and once corrected, seemed fine.. but the wet weather changed all that...why?

Because the battery gets wet in my setup, and the panels get wet, as does everything else..... and this gives as a very high impedance to ground for the battery bank. Those folks with grounded neg banks would find this out from the get go.... mine are not.

So it appeared that the DC grounding stuffs up the AC voltage sensing.... so a change is required.

Luckily very simple, and Clockmans board has plenty of room at the end we are interested in... we simply get rid of the offending voltage divider and replace it with a small as we can get transformer, and this gives us a floating reference not bothered by anything else.. and suddenly it is very solid, regardless of the load situation, or the battery situation. As can be guessed, a portable battery on a protable installation would not couse these problems, but htis fixes that anyway.

It looks like this:


and this shows how i put the output directly where the 50k resistors went... before the bridge.







Now it performs without any bad habits.

.......oztules
Flinders Island Australia

clockmanFRA

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2016, 03:42:22 AM »
Thanks, electrondady1, ontfarmer, maryB, mab, kitestrings, and not forgetting the Man, Oztules. My Thanks to folk like you that offer helpful comments and advice.

Okay 'Oztules',  OzControl board amended.

Mk2 OzControl board not yet at the manufacturers, so easy to amend, just need a readily obtainable small AC transformer spec?

With these World wide Forums and cooperation of Forum members anything is possible, and with Global Internet technologies, projects can be advanced from humble beginnings to finished systems very rapidly with changes implemented quickly.

Especially, and here I mean it, especially when the people involved are actually Hands on folk that Do!

Yet again my sincere thanks to 'Oztules'.

 
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2016, 02:33:38 AM »
My Eldest Boy, 16 years, has just done a Utube Vid on the OzInverter and Book.

Its not much, but he is at least helping this 'shuffling bear dinosaur', see vid, into another Media medium.

I should have worn more sexier overalls........ ha ha.

  https://youtu.be/C3If9sbpdcA
 
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

jan04

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2016, 03:54:53 AM »
great job! congrat!
btw.  i have to many books at home, no place for newer one  :) what about one kindle epub version?
the next big piont: EMI/RFI behavior of the OZ Inverter with the homebrew controller board.
I'm an amateur radio operator an i have currently a big problem with the inverter based on powerjack controller. My big 80m loop refuse to work in vinicity of the inverter instatllation. I spend a lot of time for  EMI filter system, but i still not happy with the situation. What is you experience with the new OZ Inverter? shelding? did you make a measurement for EMI interference?

rg
jan

clockmanFRA

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 01:59:33 AM »
Hi Jan,

No plan so far for a Kindle version, as it needs police-ing, and to be honest the numbers for sale /sold do not warrant the extra work involved.

I have not done any EMI testing on the OzInverter.

Regards your TX RX radio operating equipment, then good enclosure Shielding and output Filters will be a must, but I think you might want to chat with 'Oztules' or the radio guys for more information.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

oztules

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 06:37:48 AM »
Jan, they all start out  similar as best I can tell, and your battery leads will also be big problems as well..... keep em short and twisted...,, then work on the AC side
Anyway, this may well be of interest to your endeavour.

https://www.solar-electric.com/reducing-electromagnetic-interference-pv-systems.html/

Also, what have you tried thus far.... ....... a radio ham, and me will be making one for him... so i will have the same problems as you currently face.... luckily he does not particularly like 80m... but likes 40 and 20 from memory....


................oztules
Flinders Island Australia

jan04

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 02:08:05 PM »
Sooner or later nearly every ham will have a problem with RFI. I think not only ham, also normal user too, with similar inverters. What if the police are called?  Tjaa… then are in the middle of a bad situation. Most cases of interference can be cured. In my case it's indeed the ‘case'.  I have build one physical and logical case around the inverter. I've tried shielding, cancellation and filtering. Suppression is on going and this way seems to showed the best results. The investigation cost reaches high altitudes. That's live, experimental labor is an expensive affair, Oztules, give me a hag  ;-)  Anyway..  my installation is right now conform to a FCC  Rules und Regulations. TRX  S-meter showed  on 80m about 1,5-S noise floor(earlier over 9S) and on 20m 0-S !!! I spell, Z-E-R-O! (earlier  9S+20db. BTW. each S on the S-meter mean 6db). The 40m band make still sth worse, s-meter showed about 4-S. not good enough. I have changed the location of the TRX an the distance from TRX to Inverter is currently about 10 Meters. Earlier about 5Meters. In vicinity of inverter, closer then 5m only the 80m loop is not usuable for DX receiving. All another band work good enough, in TX and RX  mode. My naïve goal is to reach that the RFI not be able to abandon the inverter housing. That is the best way, if reachable. All another comics are to expensive and expected engineers skills.
I will extend my RFI maintains lab and will investigate this case further. The results I will publish in forum. But just now I have to go  and pack my old leather bag. My lifetime-heavy-duty-battery very flat right now, likes the plaice. The next stop is Sicily, battery recharging cycle about 6-8 Weeks.

rg
jan

jan04

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2016, 10:30:41 AM »
oztules, maybe it's useful for you…
A quickie glimpse into RFI again…  Always the same RFI-mess, even on board. I have a Sterling 40Amp Power Charger for a while now, I use this for maintenance the boat batteries. But I haven't used the Charger and the Kenwood TRX simultaneously once before. Well this time, I did. And what was the result? The same RFI- rubbish as at home! Even the range of disturbance is nearly identical with my inverter at home. A harmonic and spurious emissions interfering with desired signal then a tuned on. It's not possible to receive a readable radio signal on short wave without  strong noises if the charger is running. It's not coming from the grid, because I installed an isolating transformer and a RFI filter into the circuit long time before. I had a sneaking suspicion: It has to be the DC side of the charger. I quickly build a simple probe to couple out the signal on DC leads. Here we go… Here you can see how it looked like:

It is not a complete fingerprint of the mentioned RFI-disaster, but it was enough to considering about the filter needs.

10022-0

434kHz

10023-1

19kHz

10024-2

Pulse_on_19.07kHz

10025-3

noise_100Hz_rectifier_bridge 

.....

jan04

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2016, 10:35:54 AM »
10026-0
Broadband_Noise_2.1Mhz_on_SDR_TRX    -60dBFS

10027-1
In comparison, here the strongest AM signal i received on this evening if the charger was off:      -65dBFS  on 15.245Mhz

Awful! There is nothing i can do about that, i have only to get a filter pretty fast.  I did it, a quickie  ;-) . I've attached a scheme for the filter. It's very simple but quiete effective. The noises are gone. Here are some pictures of measurements on the self build filter.

10028-2
the probe

10029-3
Low-pass filter 1.2mH inductor/6.8uF Cap.  Injection +9.5dBm by 50 Ohm load

10030-4
Low-pass filter 1.2mH / 10uF       Injection +9.5dBm by 50 Ohm load

....

jan04

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2016, 10:39:45 AM »
10031-0
Low-pass filter 1.2mH / 4.7uF        Injection +9.5dBm by 50 Ohm load

These are the components i needed and used for the filter:
-Metallbox
-2x 4.7uF/400V  caps
1x6.8uF/100V cap
1x resistor 4.7kOhm/2Watt
1x inductor  2x 1.2mH (Mangan-Zink-Ferrit toroid core, AL=12250nH, 2x12 turns enameled 0.4mm wire, 30/hand)

10032-1



Schematic:

10033-2

You can use the principle of the composition for other installations, too. i.e for an inverter, but just for the DC Side. I'll show a DIY solution for the AC Side when I'm back at home in Germany. This is one is a little bit more delicate, because it consists of two stages and needs more explanation…
I construed this DC Filter for 50 Amps, it's more then as good enough fort he 40amps charger.
If you want to use them for the more powerful inverters, you can keep it as it is except the inductor. The inductor has to be adapted.
Either you'll use a bigger toroid core to have less winding, or you'll choose to take a ferrite rod and wind your thick wire around this one.
To ensure you have functional low-pass filter from about 150kHz to 30Mhz, the combination has to feature 1mH – 1.2mH, if you decide to use a low-pass filter with similar response curve. You can vary  the response curve as you like depend from your local situation and  change the cutoff frequency, the maximum attenuation and curve steepness by modifying  the F, L und C components in the formula.

Here is the result what I get after filter installation:

10034-3

oztules

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2016, 06:11:32 PM »
Thanks for the research Jan.

Will get onto it soon ( when I help the local Ham to get his off grid system up and running....) . I'll look ever so smart armed with your information....as my RF knowledge is not too good ( read terrrible) , and I teat it as a black magic dark art........particularly aerials......


...........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

joestue

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2016, 08:41:15 PM »
so.. that filter appears to be a common mode inductor, is this what you intended? or is it wound as an inductor. at 50 amps at 1.2mH is 1.5Joules... that's not a small inductor.

anyhow, i suspect you can put the filter on either side of the inverter, or both.

is the source of all this noise just the capacitance between the mosfets, their heatsink and ground? if that's the case and if the transformer core is grounded (or in the case of the toroidal cores, the secondary is grounded) then it would make sense to keep the filter on the battery side of the inverter.
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

clockmanFRA

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2016, 04:06:56 AM »
Jan,

I am a little late in thanking you for your research.  I takes me awhile to get to understand things. !

Your filter sound promising.

I will soon be testing a BigOzInverter so I will let you know what the RFI is doing.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: The New Book, & PCB's option, "Making a 6kW OzInverter"
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2016, 01:52:05 PM »
Winter is finally here, not so pleasant outside, so I have more time in my office.

Updates.......

Here is a Block Diagram for the OzInverter showing the 230vac side.

Hopefully it helps others, and clarifies a few things. This will be added/amended to the OzInverter Book.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery