Author Topic: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator  (Read 14324 times)

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Harold in CR

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2017, 02:48:48 PM »

 Thanks for that drawing. One day  ::) I plan on doing the same thing, only with Hydro and wind.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2017, 02:50:20 PM »
From your posts I have not been able to figure out if the fans worked using the diode resistor and capacitor worked.

If it didn't work, the drawing of the circuit as you interpreted it.


Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2017, 03:23:07 PM »
Hi, I soldered a diode to the 50w 4 ohm resistor then series connected the capacitors. I know its not
a drawing, but I do understand how I was instructed.
It never turned the fans on.
I checked voltage at dump resistor and meter read 2.1v when the tristar started flashing at 28.8v.
I was told it would have turned it on, had I been dumping more amps and volts by letting
it stay in dump mode longer.
I got nervous and removed the fan trigger.
Now I just keep it under dump voltage by running more items off inverter.
I have not yet set my wind generator on the tower.

Doug

edit
What about mounting a temperature snap disk above dump resistor?

edit again
I can get the normally open, close on heat rise at 113f (some even lower).
I think I will go this route next.
thanks everybody.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 04:11:07 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Mary B

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2017, 09:42:48 PM »
The series capacitors need to have the + terminal to the diode and the - terminal to negative on the charge controller...

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2017, 10:34:02 AM »
The fan negative I put on dump load negative on controller.
I will give it a try on controller neg to battery in stead.

But will the dump load resistor ever get the full 24v to turn on fan?

When tristar started dumping I was getting only 2v
measuring voltage at dump resistor. But resister started
its buzz noise and warming up.

I will keep trying.
Thank you kindly.
Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2017, 11:30:04 AM »
fan resistor by Doug B, on Flickr

here is fan resistor and caps
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2017, 12:37:00 PM »
It doesn't look like that will work at all.  Put the fan across the two capacitors.  Reverse the diode.  Connect the diode end to the + on the controller.   I took a picture, but can't find my card reader.

Current comes from the + controller terminal. Passes through the diode and resistor and charges the capacitor and runs the fan.  When controller pin is off, capacitor continues to power the fan.  The diode prevents current from capacitor going to dump load resistor and draining the capacitor. While the capacitors are very near the voltage limit singly, they should survive if they are placed in parallel. This will give more current to the fans while the controller is off.

This should at least prove the principal.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2017, 01:12:19 PM »
" Reverse the diode.  Connect the diode end to the + on the controller."
positive on dump terminal right?
Wont work at all?

I get voltage through the diode and out of caps to the fans. but only 2v
You have to enlarge the pic to see diode stripe is facing 50 watt 4 ohm resistor.

I will look some more for a better cap.

I want to do it right. Thanks

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2017, 01:46:12 PM »
I have a 8 uf 450v oil filled capacitor.
Could this work?
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2017, 02:23:00 PM »
Sure looks like a white stripe on the white wire end, must be glare.

Even no capacitor will likely work.  8uF is enough to reduce spikes from the motor. If the motor is brushless it will run better with a cap.

If the dump load PWM is 10%, the capacitor will charge up to full voltage.  Then it will supply some voltage for a longer period of time.  The bigger the uF of cap, the longer it will supply current. 

It just my be the controller isn't dumping that much.  Connecting the motor directly to the dump load resistor should make it run if dumping enough wattage.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2017, 03:03:44 PM »
Yes I thought that would confuse.  ::)
It is just a reflection on diode end.
The stripe is facing the resistor.

ok, will try this cap then might take apart an older tv to look for better cap.

Thank you for your help.

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2017, 04:39:11 PM »
Ok tried the 8 ohm capacitor.
Connected diode to dump load +
Voltage being fed to cap was 17-18v (end of day sun wise)
output on cap to fans at less than 1 volt. Maybe bad cap.
Connected fan + to output of 50watt 4 ohm
resistor. Fan buzzed a bit but wont spin.
Not hard to figure as the fans were not being fed 24v.
There is nothing to switch on power only after 24v
has been reached. I'm afraid the fans would burn up
before 24v is available.. Am I making any sense?

thanks
Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Mary B

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2017, 06:26:33 PM »
You cannot use a DC voltmeter to measure the output of the Tristar PWM. Switch it to AC because of the PWM waveform.

Your circuit should be the diode anode(end without the band) connected to the tristar, then the resistor in series, then the Plus side of the capacitors that have their negative side connected to tristar ground(negative) then your fan+ connects to the positive side of the capacitors and the - to the - side of the capacitors. You are building a half wave rectifier basically.



Vsrc is your tristar PWM output, Rsrc is your resistor(it can be either side of the diode), C1 is your series capacitors, Rload is your fan(s)

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2017, 06:49:50 PM »
Very kind of you.
I can work with that.
Thanks

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2017, 02:38:32 PM »
Built the circuit with what I have now available.
4 ohm 50 watt resistor and 2- 35v 1000uf caps connected series.
So I waited till my volt meter read 28.8v
went to controller it was flashing.
I heard a low buzz from fans so I spun them and they
kept spinning very slowly.
Flashing light quit and so did fans.
Sun came out, controller flashing and fans buzzing,
I spun them up and they stay running.
How can I add something that will only let 24v and above go to fans?
It seems it starts out with voltage too low for fans to self start?
Any ideas?

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2017, 03:08:08 PM »
Time to try a relay.  If the capacitance was larger the fans wouldn't buzz.  If up to it place the two capacitors in parallel. 35V rated caps are sufficient, but it would be better to have at least 50V caps for long term life.  The two caps in parallel will give you four times the capacitance and that will allow more power to the fans.

They still maybe wouldn't spin because the duty cycle isn't high enough to run two fans.  It could likely be that you just don't divert enough power. Believe you said the fans were  1/4 A each.

An alternative would to put a relay in place of the fan motors.  That takes far less current to operate ans any time you divert the fans will come on. Just power the fans from battery voltage.  Just another load and that is what you are looking for.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2017, 03:13:13 PM »
Im going to tear apart a 14 year old tv. Hoping I find a better cap.
right .25a each.

What relay do I need?

Thanks
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

mbouwer

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2017, 05:09:48 PM »
Fused,

What kind of windgenerator you are going to install?

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2017, 05:30:30 PM »
A TV at best will probably have nothing bigger than a 330 or 470uF.  That is smaller than what you have now.

A 24V DC relay will likely pull in at about 16V.   If you only have a 12V relay, measure the coil resistance and use about that same resistance in series with the relay coil.

I have old parts out the ying yang. I just expect everyone else does too.

DamonHD

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2017, 06:27:52 PM »
I believe the correct modern terminology for "old parts out the ying yang" is now something like "carefully curated set of upcycleable assets" or somesuch...  B^>

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2017, 06:29:39 PM »
IMG_0732 by Doug B, on Flickr

I built that years ago, flew it for awhile and took it down after health issues.
Its time to put her back up.

Thanks for saving my time on the tv.
I will look for a relay,,,thanks

No extra parts here, only bought what I needed.
:(
Just bought 10- 50v 1000uf caps off ebay.
Parallel a couple of these and that should kick start it.
If I still need a relay, I will buy it later.

thanks all
Doug
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 07:47:30 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2017, 04:24:10 PM »
A bubble popped in my head, I went out to the barn and
dug through some parts I had from my hvac days.
Found me a 24v blower relay and went back in.
Wired it in so it goes through diode then a 4ohm 50w resistor
and a 50v 1000uf capacitor. That should smooth out pulses
and feed to the 24v relay.
Of course the sun went down so I can't test till tomorrow,
but that's how it goes.
When I get this circuit tested, Im installing a separate
Chinese 30a controller just for my solar power.
When everything has proven it's self I will put up a wind generator.
I have been working towards this for months.
Soon, I will have a small mill up to help out on cloudy days
You would be amazed at the money I have been saving
just with my solar over the last 15 months and cutting my electric bill.
Im on a rant...sry

Doug

System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2017, 04:00:40 PM »
Fan problem solved.
I tested my relay, it would not work.
Then I hooked up the diode/resistor/cap(50v 1000uf)
to the fans.
Tristar started blinking, fans started up fine in
low speed but still moving some air.
I waited a half hour and checked, now you can hear the fans
running.
Waited another half hour and checked, sure enough
they were spinning even faster.
So, I just wanted to thank everybody for your help.
This job is done.

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2017, 05:10:36 PM »
Great news.  How many 1,000uF 50V caps are you using? Should be more than one so ripple currents are shared.  If the fans haven't been used in a while, the bearings may be lubing up.  It is a nice automatic method that others should try. The fans become part of the load and don't mess with battery voltage.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2017, 05:31:00 PM »
I'm only using the 1 capacitor.
I got 10 of em cheap.

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2017, 08:10:26 PM »
Cheap capacitors don't like current.  You will find capacitors four times that physical size of the same value and voltage.  I would use three of the ones you have in parallel.  That will reduce the current in each one and give longer life.  Caps are like resistors, they have a current rating and heat up.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2017, 09:48:18 PM »
Ok thanks
I'm going to build it on a small circuit board.
What watt resistor do I need?
Is the 50 watt too  big?
I did keep feeling the cap while I was checking it running
and it never felt like any heat.
Doug

this is what i bought

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292131113306?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 10:08:30 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2017, 02:43:54 PM »
got anxious so I went ahead and added 2 more caps
so 3- 50v 1000uf caps connected parallel.

battery voltage 28.3v so I will be testing fans in a hour or less.

They really do (or did) ramp up speed as the watts dumping increased,
then I could hear it slowing as I turned on 1 tv at a time until
I dropped below dump voltage.

Will test now with the 3 caps see what happens.

Another odd note to add,, I always dumped at 28,8v dependably
now with extra 50 watt resistor or the diode i now dump at 28.9v.....beyond me
but I don't care.

Doug

.
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2017, 04:01:51 PM »
This circuit is the S***!!!!

Tristar runs voltage to 28.9v, then between 1 and 3 blinks of the tristar the fans
start 3x as fast as when it had 1 cap.

So happy. Now that is ready to handle the wind generator
dump load.

So IF I can get the chineese 30a solar controller working
I will be "set" for my little set up, lol.

Then the tristar can handle up to 45a peak for a wind generator out of control.

Thanks again for everybody's help and especially the schematic.
I am lost designing circuits, but I can read a drawing or schematic.

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2017, 08:57:14 PM »
Those capacitors act as a battery.  The low 4 ohm resistor allows them to charge up quickly and the extra capacitance continues to supply current to the motors after the on pulse is gone.  What I don't understand is I thought you placed the prior two 1,00uF 35V caps in parallel and that didn't work well.  Either I misunderstood you or they were really bad.

Here is a video you should watch about parallel capacitors. If you go directly to EEVblog.com there are numerous electronic fundamental videos to watch.  This one is on parallel capacitors and why it is done.  After watching it you just might want to use four.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwANKw36Mjw

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2017, 09:03:57 PM »
"I thought you placed the prior two 1,00uF 35V caps in parallel and that didn't work well."

No I never got to that, I decided to wait on what I thought was the correct capacitor.

I will definitely watch, probably a few times.
Takes a bit to sink in.

Thank you

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2017, 12:04:22 PM »
OperaHouse, it only makes sense to build a new fan switch
so I will install 4 caps, use the same 50w resistor  ect.

Is there any way you could alter your schematic to
throw in a red led somewhere for a light to come on when the circuit gets power?
I know it is not needed but iit would add the cool factor my lil circuit board needs.

Im waiting on solder delivery before I can build it.

Thanks a bunch.

Doug

edit
this is not important, I just read the sad news.
You take care of you and yours.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 05:23:59 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2017, 08:09:08 AM »
Soon you'll be building all sorts of electronic stuff.  I've thought about what would be simple, functional and dramatic. A conventional LED operates at about 10ma so a 2.2K to 3.3K resistor would work in series.  Once the voltage reaches 2V the LED will start to glow. A LED will start to light with just nano amps of current.

This could be placed across the load resistor. Your dump probably pulses at about 100 Hz. Every pulse will be full voltage and your eye will integrate the intensity.

Alternately, the led could be placed across the motor.  In that case the capacitors and motors will average the voltage. The LED then won't start to come on till over 2V is reached.

GO BIG.  I like using 10W LED, usually at not much more than 1W.  These are larger in diameter, easier to see and come with an aluminum heat spreader attached.  That acts as all the heat sink you need at lower power. These are easy to mount just by gluing them to a panel. LED forward voltage depends upon the color.  These red ones have a 3 X 3 array, three diodes in series and three strings parallel. That LED will start operating at about 9V.  If attached to the motor, it will come on just as the motor starts spinning.  Anyway, it will be bright regardless of where you connect it and visible in daylight.  Use a 220 to 330 ohm 1W resistor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221929686817?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 11:01:58 AM by OperaHouse »