Author Topic: A New Bright Idea from Ghurd (Read 19418 times)

SparWeb · « **on:** April 08, 2011, 12:44:07 AM »

I'm posting on behalf of Ghurd because he's too modest to make a big a fuss about this project, but he deserves it. Right off the bat I want to thank him for coming up with the circuit designs, and helping me and several other lucky beta-testers get it running to test it out.

After using and working with DIY wind for a while, I can't help notice that the heat from the dump load doesn't really do much. The turbine is busy pumping energy into a system that can't accept it. Most of us who use batteries need to have charge controllers to prevent the batts from being overcharged. They also help with the regulation of the voltage and the nice ones will even do an equalization cycle for you from time to time.

Beyond that, I find the turbine putting most of its energy into heat. After the initial top-up of the batteries, the charge controller activates the diversion load. When I'm around, I can turn on lights and heaters and other things that may make the energy useful, but that requires a lot of babysitting. When we have a system that produces a limited amount of energy, wouldn't it be nice to not waste the power? Why not have it put to use automatically?

Ghurd has obviously been thinking along those lines for a while, and after several prototypes he's come up with a circuit that does this for us automatically.
The beauty of the circuit is 3-fold:

a) It runs off your batteries (taking less than 20 milliAmps)
b) It does not affect the diversion load (you still use one for safety)
c) It can control just about any other device you want (with your selection of relay)

I guess another feature is that the circuit is almost as easy to build as Ghurd's diversion controller circuit, so if you've built one of those you may want to build one of these. We're in the early stages, so Ghurd has not had a chance to design and make custom boards. That may come if this proves to be popular. I've tested it on my own system, so I can attest that it is compatible with a Tristar TS-60 in diversion mode, and have no doubt that it would do just as well with a Xantrex C40/C60 hooked up the same way. Obviously, it's compatible with Ghurd's diversion controller, too, by design.

Here are 2 pictures of circuit boards, one built by Ghurd, and the one built by me:

Most of the components on the boards are identical, just organized differently. The capacitor was over-sized in the first prototypes so it's much smaller now. My variation was to put several connectors on the board, making it easier to pack up into the box I wanted to use. Here you see me testing it with a car headlight. The power supply for the board is completely separate from the power supply for the headlight. The timer has energized the relay coil, the headlight's 12v power supply is only across the relay's contacts.

I don't do much with my batteries' DC, so I wanted this timer to control AC circuits. This is possible by using the Timer's FET gate output to flip the coil of a relay. The contacts of the relay can then do whatever I want. I came up with this box, into which I packed the timer, the relay, the duplex plug, and an input AC receptacle. All wired up, the duplex plug doesn't get AC until the input cord is plugged in and the timer has clicked the relay contacts. Then whatever load is plugged into the duplex plug will come on.

Ghurd predicts this will be just as popular, or more so, controlling DC circuits. There are probably uses for this that go beyond RE.

The timer knows when to turn on by running out one trigger wire. It senses when the diversion load is on when there is a positive voltage on it. I calculate that the trigger wire can take more than 60 Volts without trouble, but is sensitive to voltages as low as 5 Volts, so you don't need special configurations for 12v/14v/48v battery systems. Here is Ghurd's diagram of how to use it with my TS-60:

Since Ghurd is already well equipped with parts and a nice website describing his controller, I think everyone who is interested should go check it out. He doesn't have a page dedicated to the Timer yet. I am finishing up a couple of schematic drawings and will post them shortly.

www.ghurd.info

A few other lucky souls have been testing this out over the past few weeks/months and maybe they can share their experiences and ideas here, too.

SparWeb · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2011, 12:47:28 AM »

Oh yeah, forgot to include the photo of it in my own system:

I've tried it with various things plugged in. Since it's in a sealed box, I will be able to move it to a permanent location outdoors, closer to the place I will end up using it.

TomW · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:27:12 AM »

Being one of the alpha (and) Beta testers I can attest that this fills a need I had since I added more sources than I could absorb.

Mine had some issues with inappropriate cycling when it was wired in "test" mode but it has settled down once I confirmed it worked and put it into a Cantex box with short leads and solid connections and mounted it to my wall.

Mine kicks on a 120 VAC 1850 watt water heater element via a Benedict & Jager relay when it cycles. It kicks on for 68 seconds very reliably. As long as it is getting a dump trigger from the controller it resets the timer effectively putting my wasted watts to some use.

Even with that 1850 watts and my 1 KW dump load I cannot waste as much as I can make with everything pushing hard.

Just a brief response and no photographic documentation.

Well done, Glen.

Now to get you some lessons on shameless self promotion!

Tom

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2011, 08:57:57 AM »

Quote from: SparWeb on April 08, 2011, 12:44:07 AM

In that picture there with the coffee, I'm assuming there's some details that aren't shown. Like how you're using this system to keep that coffee hot using turbine power to save wear and tear on the microwave.
--
Chris

SparWeb · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2011, 11:51:19 AM »

Quote from: ChrisOlson on April 08, 2011, 08:57:57 AM

In that picture there with the coffee, I'm assuming there's some details that aren't shown. Like how you're using this system to keep that coffee hot using turbine power to save wear and tear on the microwave.
--
Chris

My coffee doesn't wait long enough to require re-heating!

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2011, 12:05:53 PM »

Quote from: SparWeb on April 08, 2011, 11:51:19 AM

My coffee doesn't wait long enough to require re-heating!

Well mine does. I'm a sipper, not a guzzler. So I'm going to need a plug-in AC cup for a diversion load. With a thermostat on it that holds the temperature at precisely 120. And a timer so it don't cook it down to sludge. Maybe a proximity sensor too so it knows when I'm close and about ready to grab the cup so it can heat it up.

When I seen that java cup in the photo I thought maybe we were really on to something here. An Energy Efficient Self-Heating Smart Java Cup that runs on renewable energy would be cooler than my daughter's iPhone.
--
Chris

ghurd · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2011, 01:29:45 PM »

Nice writeup SparWeb!

I want to thank all the people who were willing to try it, and those who supplied feedback about uses and the circuit itself. There were a lot of people willing to help me with this.

I will try to get something on my site about it soon.
G-

freejuice · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2011, 04:28:49 PM »

I wish I could spend some more time on the timer like Spar has done. Currently I'm busier than a cat in a sand box. However I do find a little time to play with the timer.
It is still working like a champ, I have it hooked to Ghurds 24v controller but have it tweaked for my 48 v system....its works flawlessly....I really like it! It fires the solid state relay just like it should ( I'm dumping AC power into a 2500 watt water heater element)
Glen hopefully I can get the 48v controller up and running soon and give you the feedback on it...if its anything like your original 12/24v controller and this new timer, I'm sure it will be excellent!

Glen, I think that timer will be a very good success if you can get it up on your web site.... a little friendly pressure here

....Oh since I'm not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imgination....is there any why to incorporate a pot on the timer for a little customer tweaking...you know us DIY's we like to fool around with various on/off times. However if not, it is near perfect as it is!
Thanks again for a great item!
Gavin

Oh... all you other folks will have to suffer and wait, until it hits his web site! I feel like a regular beauty contest prima donna...I was one of the lucky beta testers....nanna nanna boo boo!
Sorry guys I just had too....groan

SparWeb · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2011, 05:25:01 PM »

Quote from: freejuice on April 08, 2011, 04:28:49 PM

Glen, I think that timer will be a very good success if you can get it up on your web site.... a little friendly pressure here
....Oh since I'm not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imgination....is there any why to incorporate a pot on the timer for a little customer tweaking...you know us DIY's we like to fool around with various on/off times.

~~You wanna little pot? I gotta little pot.~~ Oops this is a "family" rated site.

I put one on mine. Don't see why you couldn't do the same. If you have a certain value for R1 then replace it with half fixed resistor and half potentiometer in series with each other. Then you can go from 100% of the ON time to 50% of the ON time you had before. For much longer and or much shorter time spans, adjust the total resistance accordingly. Mine's adjustable in the 120K to 220K range which gives me 1 minute to 2 minutes.

This picture is too big to fit on the forum:
http://www.sparweb.ca/Diary/Timer/Ghurds_Timer_Board.jpg

fabricator · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2011, 05:30:39 PM »

I wonder how long it'll take for the anti relay crowd to show up.

zvizdic · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2011, 06:24:24 PM »

Quote from: fabricator on April 08, 2011, 05:30:39 PM

I wonder how long it'll take for the anti relay crowd to show up.

Why would they if this timer eliminates wild clicking .

SparWeb · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2011, 06:37:56 PM »

One of the crucial features of the Timer is that the trigger responds instantly to the first pulse from the charge controller. Then it stays on for at least a minute or more.

No hammering relays.

All the time the diversion load is being switched on and off with the charge controller's PWM, the Timer just stays on continuously. The relay's coil is happy. When the charge controller stops dumping to the diversion load, the Timer waits, in case the diversion comes on again. This can be 1 minute, or like mine it's adjustable for more. Eventually the Timer shuts off the relay, shutting off the auxiliary load too.

Southbuck · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:25:09 PM »

I use the timer to turn on ventilation fans in my 12x20 barn.
The heat from the sun builds in the barn until the solar panels have the batteries to dumping stage then Glens Timer kicks on and turns on the 24v fans.

Your Timer is a Great idea Glen.

Thanks for the fun.

Doug

zvizdic · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2011, 07:27:41 PM »

GHurd is a to modest you got that wright .

I asked to make changes to 12/24V to a 48V controller and now I am proud owner of a first 48V GHurd controller I be live.

I made 3 of them and no problem, Made first one in December .

Thanks G

SparWeb · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2011, 12:47:00 AM »

I've let it go too long:
Schematic:

Print size: http://www.sparweb.ca/Diary/Timer/Ghurd_Timer_Manual-a2-12V.gif

Parts List:

Print size: http://www.sparweb.ca/Diary/Timer/Ghurd_Timer_Manual-a4-PARTS.gif

dave ames · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2011, 05:06:22 PM »

Thanks Guys

glen, this circuit is sure to be another big hit! you have found a need and filled it for the DIY guy looking to build his own stuff...and that's where a lot of the fun is in messing with this hobby.

steven, thanks for the great schematic and your beta testing. super job as always

hope to give this a try. perf board and jumpers is good for me!

probably obvious to everyone else but not me?

can i omit the 7812 regulator, c4,c5 and zd1 in the 12 volt version? then supply +12v to the anode tails of d1 & d2 and connect the negative where ground is (lower right)? or leave zd1 in and connect our 12v negative there at the ground rail?

great stuff!
thanks, dave

edit: goofy spellin

clockmanFRA · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2011, 06:10:03 PM »

Will this be taken to a kit form??

I struggle for time nowadays, and therefore would be willing to buy a kit, printed PCB, components etc.

I'm in the UK, can i buy this??.

SparWeb · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2011, 06:23:16 PM »

Dave,
Fixing file-names.... Sorry!

---edit---

now the 12v version drawing has the 12v file name.

Here is the 24V version:

Print size: http://www.sparweb.ca/Diary/Timer/Ghurd_Timer_Manual-a3-24V.gif

SparWeb · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2011, 06:30:59 PM »

Quote from: dave ames on April 13, 2011, 05:06:22 PM

probably obvious to everyone else but not me? can i omit the 7812 regulator, c4,c5 and zd1 in the 12 volt version? then supply +12v to the anode tails of d1 & d2 and connect the negative where ground is (lower right)? or leave zd1 in and connect our 12v negative there at the ground rail?

Dave, I'm very sorry that must have been very confusing, because I switched the file names as I was saving them. I've got the 12-volt version showing properly in the post from April 12th, where you don't need to have the voltage regulator. The 24-volt version does use the voltage regulator. That's the chief difference between the two. Other smaller differences involve the resistance of the trigger/sensor line that needs a smaller share of the 30-volt dump voltage to activate than the corresponding 15V in the lower-voltage systems. Also note that he ON LED should have more protection resistance when running from the 24V system than the 12.

dave ames · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2011, 08:55:21 PM »

Thanks Spar,

hehe. and it don't take a much to confuse me!

we can get to the 12v version with the april 12th link now. bet you can see the proper image on your machine, but still showing the 24v version here..must be some kind of cross linking going on? perhaps one of the kind forum wizards might get it swapped around for us.

thanks a bunch, dave

SparWeb · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2011, 08:58:06 PM »

Hit the refresh button on your browser, or on some just hit the F5 key.
On mine I wondered about that too until I realized that the memory chache was playing tricks on me.

dave ames · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:03:53 PM »

Yep! just like magic..

Thanks

ghurd · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2011, 08:49:44 AM »

Thanks for making the art Spar.
Looks better than my 'Paint' versions!

Quote from: clockmanFRA on April 13, 2011, 06:10:03 PM

Will this be taken to a kit form??

I struggle for time nowadays, and therefore would be willing to buy a kit, printed PCB, components etc.

I'm in the UK, can i buy this??.

I will probably put together some "Parts Packs".
The board, for now, will be generic perf board. Custom boards are kind of expensive, and I don't have the cash to lay out.

I will send anything to anywhere. I can not promise it will get to people in places like Nigeria, Haiti, or Italy, but I will mail it.

The circuit takes a lot longer to assemble than ghurd controller. Plenty of places to make a mistake.
The last few batches I made look like this-

12V (output wires not yet in the board)

24V

Reverse of 24V board

SparWeb · « **Reply #23 on:** November 29, 2011, 12:22:01 AM »

It's time for an update on this project.

Last year, Ghurd developed this device and sent it out to some of us "beta testers" to try out. While we did have to iron out some issues, the overall impression (from here) is that they're solved and the system works as advertised. Last year I didn't have it in place before my need for the system came to its seasonal end: spring. I use Ghurd's Auxiliary Dump Timer to control a heater in the horses' water trough. It lets me use excess wind and solar power (once the battery is fully charged) to keep the water in the trough thawed in the winter. It's not a complete substitute to the grid for electricity to thaw the water, simply because it isn't always windy when it's really cold. But in typical November weather it's terrific.

Most off-grid battery systems charged by wind turbines need a diversion load, and it sheds heat when the batteries are full. This device re-directs the energy (without affecting the dump load resistors) to another purpose that may be more useful than the dump load. I'd recommend this for supplementary water heating in large wind turbine systems, but I'm sure a smaller system can find other uses, suitable for their size.

Winter is back! I have a couple weeks worth of good results so far; I've only been systematically recording things since last week.

I have been using it to thaw/heat water for the horses again, using a 1200W floating heater. Every day I check the progress and read how much time it's been ON, which equates to how much energy has been sent to the horse water instead of the dump load resistors. My batteries are quite happy with this light cycling duty.

The timer itself doesn't keep track of how long it's been on, or how many times it's been on. So to keep track of its activity I've plugged in a mechanical timer, which only turns when the Aux Dump Timer is triggered. In the table (below) I've added a lot of other observations. For comparison, I also worked the problem from the other angle: How much energy would I have used with the floating heater plugged into the grid? The answer is about the same, so no need to show all the extra numbers.
In a week I've saved a dollar. Woohoo!

Maybe it sounds better to say that by winter's end I will probably have saved 20-30 bucks.

If you want to see what I mean about the horses and the water trough: http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,136476.0.html

I'll post the numbers shortly - the table is pretty messy as ASCII...

SparWeb · « **Reply #24 on:** November 29, 2011, 12:37:36 AM »

Ooofff making tables work is quite tricky. I hopes everyone can see it clearly. Started in Excel, then export to text file, then substitute in all the "tr" and "td" codes for HTML... Don't make me do that again!

Wind turbine diam   8 feet
Timer ON time      2 minutes each cycle
Heater Load      1200   Watts
Price of electricity   19 cents/kWhr (counting the basic rate + admin fee rates which also are multiples of consumption)
November

Date	Time		Mechan.	Aux Timer	Energy		Approx Timer	Energy
	(24 hr)	Weather	Counter	ON time	Dumped	Sum	ON cycles	value
22	22.00	windy	0.00	zero
23	18.00	windy	1.00	1.00 hr	1.2kWhr	1.2kWhr	30	0.23$
24	18.00	calm	1.25	0.25 hr	0.3kWhr	1.5kWhr	8	0.29$
25	18.00	wind in PM	1.75	0.50 hr	0.6kWhr	2.1kWhr	15	0.40$
26	18.00	windy	2.75	1.00 hr	1.2kWhr	3.3kWhr	31	0.63$
27	10.00	windy	4.25	1.50 hr	1.8kWhr	5.1kWhr	46	0.97$
28	6.00	calm, sunny	4.50	0.25 hr	0.3kWhr	5.4kWhr	8	1.03$

SparWeb · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2012, 12:05:03 AM »

Winter has been over for a while for some of you, but for me, things have only started to go green.

This aux diversion timer has worked flawlessly from November to March (4 months). I have measured the time it spent "on", and I can show that it's half paid for itself in just one year.

By using it to divert excess wind/solar energy to water heat, I've been saved from plugging the water heater into the grid for 90% of the winter.
On very cold days (especially nights) I would consider how much sun and wind had recently come in, look for any ice starting on the water, and make a judgement call on plugging into the grid for the next 12 hours. Since I'd also rigged it with a "manual" mode that kept it on for as long as I wanted, I could just drain the batteries a little, if I only needed a little to get ahead of the ice. Once the wind and/or sun came back I could switch the diversion timer back to Auto. Every winter brings a few cold snaps, when extra measures must be taken, but for the rest of the time this works very well.

Over these 4 months I have saved 50 dollars in electric heating, or nearly 300 kWhrs! The 8-foot diameter turbine and 250W of solar were enough energy input to match the energy output maintaining drinking water for the horses.

kitestrings · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2012, 03:36:27 PM »

Steve,

Thanks for the effors and update(s). This is quite impressive, and I suspect popular. My hat's of the ghurd. Really nice stuff.

~ks

vtpeaknik · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2012, 05:37:18 PM »

My understanding of the "timer" aspect of this is that the diversion signal tends to go on and off rapidly and y'all want to use it to turn something on and leave it on for a while.

I've been thinking along the same lines for my PV system, and have come up with two approaches:

(1) TIMER: one of my charge controllers, an Intronics MPPT-25, has an "aux out" that can be set up in "refrigeration mode", in which it turns on when (in a 12V system) the battery voltage reaches above 13V, i.e., clearly being charged, and, once on, stays on for at least 5 minutes, even if the battery voltage drops back to under 13V. In other words, it has a timer function built in. For something that I want to run most of the daylight hours that's a good solution. (But see below.)

(2) HYSTERESIS: I have a ghurd controller set to trigger at about 14V, thus far its only purpose has been to turn on a vent fan for the battery box. It's soldiered on for over 4 years now with no problems. I have it driving a bipolar transistor (rather than the FET) of medium power (has a tab type packaging) which runs the small fan (3-inch squirrel) with a small resistor in series (to keep it slow and quiet). I can connect an additional small load to the same transistor if I want something to happen upon reaching 14V. E.g., it could easily drive the input of a solid-state relay. This signal has no timer function, but it has hysteresis, so it does not turn on and off quickly.

I am thinking of adding the following items therefore, with the aim to make more use of "surplus" PV power while still keeping the batteries mostly full since this is a backup power system:

(a) an AC outlet from the inverter that is connected via a (solid state or electromagnetic) relay driven by the ghurd controller - this could run a "diversion" load for opportunity surplus power, e.g., a dehumidifier in the summer.

(b) an AC outlet from the inverter that is connected via a (solid state or electromagnetic) relay driven by the "aux out" of the charge controller - this could run something that can be left off during the night, e.g., perhaps a freezer.

(c) a DC load running directly off the PV panels (50V, 7A) to use opportunity surplus power, e.g., the heating element of a hot water tank. This would be connected via a solid state relay triggered by the ghurd controller (with the hot water tank's thermostat in series with the relay INPUT not output, saving its contacts from burning out).

(d) During cloudy weather, when my PV cannot quite keep up with the refrigerator, I often put the frig on grid power at night and PV power during the day. This can be automated as follows: run a 12V SPDT relay off the "aux out" of the charge controller. Run AC power from the grid to the inverter's AC input (this is a Prosine 2.0 with the built-in transfer switch) through the normally-closed contacts of this relay. Thus at night the inverter will feed the grid power through to the frig. During the day, once that "aux out" turns on, the relay coil would be energized, DISconnecting the grid power from the inverter, leading to the frig running on the battery which is being charged by PV power.

(e) And in the humid late summer: a peltier-based dehumidifier (EDV-2200), running directly on 12VDC, using 7 amps. This can run directly off the "aux out". Alternatively, for heavier dehimidification, can run an AC dehimidifier off one of the AC outlets as mentioned above.

Potential problems or limitations:

The "aux out" of this controller is limited to something like 10 amps.

The ghurd controller may not have enough hysteresis (as I have it configured) to avoid the following: upon reaching 14V, triggers on, some large load (e.g., dehumidifier, or even a refrigerator or freezer if it uses too much current starting up the motor) brings the battery voltage back down below the hysteresis band, ghurd controller triggers off, rinse and repeat (and burn out the compressor). In that case I would need to either widen the hysteresis, or add a timer circuit. I've been wondering if the "timer" could be some simple RC circuit in this case, or do I need to go all the way to timer IC like this new ghurd device.

Does all this make sense?

OperaHouse · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2012, 01:29:03 AM »

I manufactured timers for years and consequently I have piles of carcasas from different production runs and UL testing. These are generally '541' timer designs, I still cringe at the sight of anything with a 555 ln it. I just couldn't bear to waste all those timers I had around so I configured them in some pretty outlandish designs. But even an old hardwire guy like me has had enough. At close to $15 you can ge a 2011 version Arduino UNO board that can solve all these complex problems. My current project will operate two independent sets of solar panels at power point, charge the battery, operate the fridge as a dump load with some real smarts, operate a waterheater as a secondary dump (actually being the120V inverter) and later controlling diversion to a washing machine. All while recording this data and being able to modify the progeam by plugging in a USB cable to a laptop. That is a lot of power and ease for under $20.

fabricator · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2012, 09:36:28 AM »

This little gem will do all that and more. http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/relay-driver

ghurd · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2012, 07:21:59 PM »

Quote from: vtpeaknik on April 27, 2012, 05:37:18 PM

The ghurd controller may not have enough hysteresis (as I have it configured) to avoid the following: upon reaching 14V, triggers on, some large load (e.g., dehumidifier, or even a refrigerator or freezer if it uses too much current starting up the motor) brings the battery voltage back down below the hysteresis band, ghurd controller triggers off, rinse and repeat (and burn out the compressor). In that case I would need to either widen the hysteresis, or add a timer circuit. I've been wondering if the "timer" could be some simple RC circuit in this case, or do I need to go all the way to timer IC like this new ghurd device.

Correct. Need something to set a minimum time.

Most simple timing circuits have to shut off before they can re-set, which will put a blip in the output power. Again, not good for compressors, etc.

This timer re-sets on the fly, with no blip in the output power.

This timer circuit leaves the charge controller in control of the battery. It works with the existing controller.

Electrically, it is not as complicated as it looks.
The hard part is making sure there are enough free holes in the right areas (I tend to try to make things as compact as possible, which is NOT a good idea for this circuit!). There are a lot of connections and jumpers on the pin 1 to 4 side of the 555.

The RD-1 is nice, but at a few hundred bucks installed, it is overkill for things like Doug's barn fan, Steven's tank heater, etc.

I prefer to be able to say "I made that" instead of "I bought that".

DIY is still fun. And the 10:1 cost ratio is nice too.

G-

fabricator · « **Reply #31 on:** April 28, 2012, 08:16:31 PM »

No argument there, but some of us need stuff that is plug and play.

ghurd · « **Reply #32 on:** April 28, 2012, 08:46:42 PM »

Agreed.

The RD-1 does a lot more stuff than the little timer circuit. It is great for what it is. More than most of us little guys need!
G-

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Author Topic: A New Bright Idea from Ghurd (Read 19418 times)