Hi Jerry - this is good stuff, it's great you're doing this. Hopefully something will come of it!
"So I jumped the rpm up to 1600. This coil group is wired star. I used a 4 ohm 400 watt none indutive resistor as load."
I expect testing everything with the same load is good althuogh it might be interesting and show some small differences if you try a couple different loads. Of course all this gets time consuming..
"I plan on doing a battery load test and look at the rippel and wave form on the osciliscope but that will be in a fewdays."
I expect the wave forms and the amount of ripple in teh rectified output will be about the same.
"I recorded dc amps and volts. Then I removed the star stator and replaced it with the jerry riged delta stator.
Here are my test results.
Jerry riged volts=4.484 Star volts=3.890
Jerry riged amps= 1.11 Star amps= .96
Jerry riged watts=4.977 Star watts= 3.734"
This is interesting. Im assuming that you measured volts while it was under load - or is that open voltage with no load? A very important test would be to run all the configurations at the same rpm, and find the open voltage. They should all be the same - if your testing them with the same load. If open voltage is different between the star stator and the delta (or jerry rigged) stator then you'd need to adjust your load to make it a fair test. My guess is you should be close because you compensated for this with the winding but it would be good to double check that.
If your voltage measurments above are for 'open voltage' (and not under load) then there's not enough windings in teh star stator and the load needs be be different to make a fair comparison. And - when measuring things under load, I think you ought to be measuring voltage and current at the same time.
"Your out of phase sires conected coils will rob you of the power that exists within the same amount of matirial and the same money spent, the same size and the same weight."
no - I dont see how we're llosing power anywhere with a star connection, in fact I think current is flowing more often through the coils (even though overall voltage is a bit lower). Name our 3 phases 1, 2 and 3, and imagine that phase #1 is at peak voltage. During this moment, even though our best voltage (between phases 1 and two is only 1.73x that of 1 by itself - the voltage of phase one is also being added to phase 3~! And phase three might be so low that by itself voltage is below battery (or useful) voltage but when combined with phase 1 its also useful! So we have current flowing through all the coils, all the time during this moment when in 'jerry rigged' some of your coils have 0 current flowing through them.
"There has been some concern that this jerry riged alt will reqier more blade power."
That wouldn't be my guess... if its a more powerful alternator then yes. My guess is its really about the same but probably still a bit less efficient than a star connection but =- perhaps more testing or clarification of the tests youve done would be good. I should also test this for myself sometime it would be fun.
"Yes it will, I know that. But at the same time it will give you the power of an alt that was built star with larger and more expencive magnets and larger and more expencive copper and every thing else that is required for a larger alt."
I still think its probably the other way around... by rectifying each phase seperately you've un-done one of the main advantages of a 3 phase system which is... more power from a smaller space. Other than smoother operation here (less vibration) I don't think you have any advantage over a single phase machine at least from teh point of veiw of your coils.
"This is scalable. So imagin the power you could acctuly get from a 2 KW alt if you wernt wasting its power on out of phase coils that are not phase compatible with each other."
Thats the thing - I dont think any power is wasted. There's certainly not more heat happening I dont think (unless overall the resistance of a star machine is higher). Each coil in a Star machine is doing just as much work as each coil in a single phase machine except that it's also able to use conductors from 2 other phases to help carry the current.
"Personaly I don't think we should build ineficient alts with star phases just to make our blades happy."
We don't do it to make the blades happy...
"And Dan B I'm sorry buddy but you said it yourself. The voltage is lower cause the phases are out of phase ( you are so right on that one)."
Yes - that's true - but there is nothing lost. The 'peak' power of every coil is basicly the same(amount of power generated in each coil as the poles change). We are not getting twice the voltage when we hook two phases together... but were hooking 3 phases together here. So a single voltage measurment across 2 leads does not tell the whole story.
"As I said earlyer if your happy with your alts phases out of phase at 120 degrees you should be real happy with your speaker out of phase at 180 degrees."
No - I don't think thats a fair comparison its a completely different thing... plus - at 180 deg apart they cancel completely.
"Thats even more noticable then 120 degrees out. But 120 out of sinc, out of wack, on a diferant page on an on is still out of phase."
You should tell Nicola Tesla that he was out of whack ;~)
(actually - I think he was... but not about this)
"Some one has mentioned. The comercial manufactures wouldn't make 3 phase generators if they were not eficient.
They are eficient. There 3 phase power goes to a 3 phase load. Each phase is in sinc with each phase. And as far as the car alt."
No - a car alternator does things exactly the way we do - a star connection to a bridge rectifier charging a battery and each phase is 120 deg out of phase with its neighbors.
"Extreamly low DCR and extream rpm and a 200 hp motor to power them. Save the expence of a few million diodes and this alt for this aplication is quite accepable."
Perhaps... I dont think so though.
"As far as a 3 phase generator is concerned it supplies power phase for phase. We are combining 3 difearant phases to become one dc output."
I don't see the difference.
"I urge any one to do the same test of these 2 diferant phase configurations and make your own conclusions."
I may play with this...
Flux suggested wave form could be a factor - I expect thats a possibility but more importantly I think we need to be very sure of this:
If you use the same load to test all three configurations then you must be sure that the open voltage (no load) is the same for all three at teh same rpm. If you supplied that information allready under 'voltage' and then tested current under load you may have allready disproven your theory.
If Your readings were open voltage, then you didn't have enough turns in star or the airgap was wider or somethiing... because a good test here requires that both have the same open voltage at teh same speed.
If at 1600 rpm you were getting 4.48V open voltage in Jerry rigged, and 1.11 amps under load
And in Star you had 3.8 Volts open and .96 amps under load.
Then you need to compensate for the voltage difference. And I think you could safely say in this case that if .96 is to 3.8V in star, then you should probably expect about 1.22amps in star @ 4.48V with the same load (which is more powerful slightly). Of course... you'd have to add a bit more winding so resistance would be a touch higher so hard to say...
The test is very interesting but I think your conclusion is skewed if open voltage is not the same for both stators at the same rpm - and wave form may well be part of the reason for that because you made the best bet at the number of windings.
I've had my convictions from the start on this subject and for me they have been confirmed.
In the compairison I even gave the star configuation some help a handicap and it still lost.
If need be I can go ever my reasoning again. I would have to show more examples or try to explain why these diferances. To me its very simple and should be easy to understand.
I'm just not sure why folks are haveing trubles with very simple and obvius dif"erances.