Author Topic: My 14' mill construction techniques  (Read 8569 times)

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Titantornado

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My 14' mill construction techniques
« on: May 28, 2006, 01:41:38 PM »
Hi all.  I promised I'd share a few photos and tales of my construction, and I am up this morning before anyone else, so this like a good a time as any to type away.  So on with the show.


As some of you recall, I decided to use 13" front disk brake rotors from a Mustang Cobra.  I also used 2" x .5" disk magnets, since they had a bit more power than the 2  x 1 x .5 mags, though I hope it won't hinder my performance due to my selected coil shape.  Anyhow, I set my mags with a simple plywood template that fit into the cavity of the brake rotor, via a "step" glued on to it. Seen here:



Once set, and before gluing them down, I double checked their orientation with a cheap compass.



Then it was time to cast the magnets to the rotors, and I chose to use West System epoxy.  I made my mold up a bit different than most folks here, and used some aluminum flashing.  I carefully cut it to length, and used a clear packing tape to hold the ends together.  I then put on layers of packing tape until the flashing fit over the rotors nice and tight.  This was done on both the inside and outsides of the magnets with great results.  I used a caulking gun to apply the epoxy without mess or air bubbles.  Here's the form after pouring:



And here it is fresh out of the forms.  The packing tape made for an excellent realease film and left a beautiful edge. (sorry, this pic is a bit wide to show it's "purtyness" :-)



I kind of wish I had added some aluminum trihydrate to the epoxy after reading DanB's post about resins, but I guess I really don't need to worry much about impact resistance, do I?  


So these rotors are going onto a standard 1750 lbs, 4.5 x 5 trailer hub assembly.  I decided to mount the back rotor behind the wheel flange after seeing it done with a Volvo mill story here.  Using 1/2-20 SS threaded rods, 1/2 lug nuts, and 1/2 connector nuts, this is what I came up with:



Those connector nuts set the backspacing perfectly, though, I did have to trim a few thousandths off one that was a smidgen longer than the rest.  Anyhow, that completes the rotor assembly.



Now, on to the stator.  I drew out my layout on a piece of particle board. As you can see, I played with all kinds of shapes before settling on one.  





Once I made my choice, it was time to make the mold.  I laminated up a couple layers of particle board and I chose to make the mold using a router and a 5 degree vertical raised panel bit.  I made a homebuilt circle cutter and away I went filling the shop with sawdust:



I'm not sure what others do on here to get the start end of their coils out, but I planned to cut a small channel out to allow it to pass out without getting pinched in the mold.  That idea quickly grew into removing all material from the area that the start end needs to pass under, to the outside edge.  The thinking is, it will add more stiffness to the support connections further resisting the effects of torque from loading and short-stopping.  It may not be such a good idea for cooling reasons, but we'll see.  I did the same thing on the lid side too, and you might be able to see what I'm talking about here:



So here's nine of my "high density" parallel wound coils I talked about in an earlier post.  For those who missed it, they are 14ga, two-in-hand, 71 turns.



So I got them all wired up using the ice maker line coupling idea learned here.  I used a crimper that has a "finger" on one side of it's jaws (I believe they are meant for use on uninsulated connectors) That closed up the tubing beautifully.  How good was it?  Well, I had to take one apart because I forgot to slide the heat shrink over the connection first, and it was all I could do to separate the coils, even after cutting away most of the tubing.  Anyhow, I silver soldered the connections and shrunk the shrink.  Now this is another one of my ideas I haven't yet seen done here.  I didn't want my wires leaving the mold.  I wanted terminals.  So I bought 5/16" solid brass toilet bolts, drilled them to accept the wires, and silver soldered the wires and a nut to them.  Seen here:



They were drilled into the bottom of the mold and secured with a nut underneath.  I brought out all the starts and ends so I can make up any three phase configuration. You can see how nice that bevel bit mentioned earlier worked for my mold.  One thing I was concerned about, as seen in an ealier picture, I domed my lid a bit and was concerned I might trap air in it.  I decided to make up a injection style mold.  Not for the whole thing, but just the last bit.  This is what I did:



You can just see the hole on the far side, and the caulk tube for injecting resin. Then the mold got a good coat of wax.  So now it's time to pour the casting.  I used vinyl ester resin and aluminum trihydrate (ATH)for maximum heat stability.  Attempting the thicken the resin, the ATH was mixed in at 75% by volume, but I never acheive any thickening.  One problem I did run into was, I couldn't mix in the ATH into the resin.  It didn't seem compatible, and would make lumps while I attempted to hand stir it in.  Even introducing it slowly wasn't working.  I had to think fast, as I was running out of daylight.  So I grabbed some steel wire used for hanging drop ceilings and a piece of ice maker tubing.  I wrapped a few coils of the wire, wrapped each end around the coils once, and twisted the ends up four inches.  I stuck the twisted ends into the ice maker tubing as far as it would go, and trimmed the ends a half inch long and bent them over the edge of the tubing.  I then bent the coils at different angles. Wa-la!  Instant homebuilt wisk.



It saved the day too, as it mixed in the ATH quite easily then, not to mention it stirred the whole pot with great efficiency.  I didn't have to worry about making sure the hardener was fully mixed with this rig. So with that problem solved, I began the pouring process. I brushed a coat of resin into the bottom of the mold and layed in the first fiberglass donut, careful not to get resin near my terminal holes in the bottom of the mold.  More resin and another layer of glass.  I set in my coils, carefully aligning the terminals into the holes, and tightened the back nuts real secure to prevent any resin from getting by. I poured up to the top of the mold and layed in two more layers of glass.  On went the lid and clamps, I inserted the caulk tube, slightly tilting the mold so the caulk tube was the lowest spot, and the exit hole the highest spot, and added resin the the tube.  I got lucky, and gravity was enough to force the resin in and air out of the mold.  I vibrated the mold with a orbital sander to help things a long.  Seen here is that set-up:



After a fairly restless night of pondering if everthing would work out OK, I was happy to see it had cured the next morning.  It came out of the mold quite easily.  And after a quick sanding, this is what it looked like:



I did get a few air pockets, but nothing that would effect integrity, but me being anal, I filled them in and finished sanding it out.  Final weight: 24 lbs!!!


So. . . . . that's as far as I am for now.  I got to find some steel to weld up next.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 01:41:38 PM by (unknown) »

wdyasq

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 08:04:18 AM »
Nice work.  I like the true spacers separating the rotors.


I might have added some glass fibers to both the stator and rotor castings to give it more strength.


Looks real good - a lot of thought shown there.


Ron

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 08:04:18 AM by wdyasq »
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willib

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 08:11:05 AM »
Titantornado,  very nice.

the low hat cobra rotors worked out nicely i see

, that trailer hub matched the holes the rotors?

and the epoxy job on the magnets looks great.

i'm glad the resin set up on the stator

is that 24 lbs for the whole machine?

how long did the epoxy take to cure?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 08:11:05 AM by willib »
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Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2006, 08:38:51 AM »
>  the low hat cobra rotors worked out nicely i see

>  , that trailer hub matched the holes the rotors?

>  and the epoxy job on the magnets looks great.

>  i'm glad the resin set up on the stator

>  is that 24 lbs for the whole machine?

>  how long did the epoxy take to cure?


Yup, hole pattern was an exact match.  That's 24 lbs, just for the stator, 14.5 of that is copper.  The epoxy was left to cure overnight, so I don't know how long in took.  (I only stuck around maybe 1.5 hours after pouring, and it hadn't cured yet)  The pot of unused epoxy cured in about 30 minutes, and got really hot and deformed.  I guess the steel rotors and magnets regulated and slowed the curing process by dissipating heat.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 08:38:51 AM by Titantornado »

harrie

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2006, 08:42:46 AM »
Wow, very nice work, your coils look tight and uniform, and I like the way your expoxied mags look.I also like working with the 2" dia.X.5" mags. I think for the price they work out very well. Keep up the good work.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 08:42:46 AM by harrie »

Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2006, 08:44:32 AM »
>  I might have added some glass fibers to both

>  the stator and rotor castings to give it more strength.


Yea, as an afterthought, I wish I would have added several turns of 1/2 fiberglass tape to the outside edge of the rotors.  Hopefully, it won't become an issue.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 08:44:32 AM by Titantornado »

hvirtane

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2006, 03:43:57 PM »
It looks really nice.


Are you going to make it as a 48 V or what?

Have you got any pictures about test coils?


- Hannu

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 03:43:57 PM by hvirtane »

Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2006, 05:24:49 PM »
24 volt system is the target.  100 - 110 RPM cut in, which would be around a TSR of 7 or 8.  I got one photo of testing a coil made from 18ga, two in hand wire, wound 70 turns.  My airgap was set at 1 inch, and I hit my targeted single coil voltage at 105 RPM.  Anyhow, here's that pic;



I used a laser tach for RPM readings, and the drill to spin it up as high as 500 RPM before it started to scare me. (it's just balancing on the hub's spindle)

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 05:24:49 PM by Titantornado »

Nando

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2006, 06:10:28 PM »
JUST:


EXCELLENT


And I mean :


E X C E L L E N T


Nando

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 06:10:28 PM by Nando »

zubbly

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2006, 06:11:37 PM »
hi Titantornado!


super super nice job!!


hope the rest goes well and you have it in the air soon.  :)


zubbly

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 06:11:37 PM by zubbly »

Slingshot

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2006, 09:07:05 PM »
Titantornado,


Can you list the sources and descriptions so that another could come up with the same hub and rotors as yourself?  I like the way that assembly fits together.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 09:07:05 PM by Slingshot »

Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2006, 10:14:47 PM »
The brake rotors are ProStop brand, (pn: 54087G) that I bought at a Pep Boys auto center.  


The hub is just a generic 3500lb. 4.5" x 5 with 1 3/8" bearings and spindle with a 1 3/4" round weld shaft, from any trailer supply.  


Standard 1/2-20 lug nuts came from Pep Boys. (used at all rotor and hub connections, because they self center)  


The rest came from www.mcmaster.com">www.mcmaster.com and consisted of:


1/2"-20 SS threaded rod (pn:98848A033), (three 3' pieces, cut into 1' pieces. Five for the rotor hub, four for the stator mounts)


Five 1/2"-20 SS coupling nuts (pn:90268A345), and


1 box of regular 1/2-20 SS nuts (pn:91845A145) for stator mount connections.


The brake rotors will require some minor machining.  The rear rotor hub hole must be slightly increased to be mounted on the back side of the hub.  Also, the front hub must be drilled and tapped for jack screws.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 10:14:47 PM by Titantornado »

Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2006, 10:22:45 PM »
Thanks all, for the compliments.  Especially the one from Nando.  I know he's kinda critical about things....[hastily adding]....but in a good way.  So that means a lot.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 10:22:45 PM by Titantornado »

domwild

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2006, 01:23:20 AM »
Great job! We are all green with envy!

« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 01:23:20 AM by domwild »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2006, 06:27:51 AM »
Very nice job.


If you keep up that kind of attetion to detail you

will end up with a beautiful machine.


.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 06:27:51 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

DanB

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2006, 08:22:07 AM »
beautiful!  Thankyou for sharing the story and some of your brilliant ideas!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:22:07 AM by DanB »
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SparWeb

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2006, 01:06:45 PM »
I home mine can come out looking at least half as nice!

« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 01:06:45 PM by SparWeb »
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drdongle

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2006, 08:37:31 PM »
REALY nice work. lots of great ideas well executed. Look fwd to seeing it on a tower producing power.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:37:31 PM by drdongle »

coldspot

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2006, 12:40:17 PM »
SWEET Work!!!

Looks like the best of idea's

all put together !!!!   :)

The lack of reinforcement in the

resin's is about made up for it great looks,

being see thru just made it look cleaner.

Anyway great work.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 12:40:17 PM by coldspot »
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Slingshot

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2006, 06:58:41 AM »
Excellent - thanks for documenting!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 06:58:41 AM by Slingshot »

willib

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2006, 06:58:46 PM »
for anyone interested the rotors are from a 2000 mustang cobra and the price is 27.99 each.

its funny going in there and not knowing what year to ask for..

the guy at the counter asked " what year" , uuuuuuuuhhhh !?!?..

with those rotors i can put seven coils per phase

Titantornado how is the progress ? i dying to know the preliminary output numbers??
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 06:58:46 PM by willib »
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Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2006, 08:59:51 PM »
Oops, sorry.  Yea, anything from 94 through 04 will work.  Mine were a buck cheaper.


Well, I haven't done anything more.  I'm looking for steel to weld up the framework now.  I'm getting anxious to see what's going to come out of it.  I'll be sure to post results.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 08:59:51 PM by Titantornado »

BigBreaker

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2006, 12:04:35 PM »
Each rotor looks like a pair of cross linked plates.  Does that effect the magnetic flux path at all?  Is the rear plate doing anything?  PS It looks fantastic!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 12:04:35 PM by BigBreaker »

Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2006, 08:05:48 PM »
Yea, you're right.  I don't know if it negatively effects the flux circuit or not, but it'll work for me.  What I can tell you is there is nearly no magnetic attraction on the back side.  It definitely contains the flux.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 08:05:48 PM by Titantornado »

willib

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2006, 11:37:48 PM »
did you run out of epoxy? , just wondering why you didnt make the stator with epoxy?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 11:37:48 PM by willib »
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Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2006, 04:53:23 AM »
Well, I did have just enough epoxy for the rotors. (as planned)   But epoxy isn't all that great for heat. (not that it won't work, but vinyl ester is better)  I wanted maximum stability when temperatures start going up.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 04:53:23 AM by Titantornado »

willib

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2006, 09:54:41 AM »
perfect spacing on this machine , and i dont see a problem with heating

have you calculated the per coil resistance?

what was the length of the two in hand strands per coil?



« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 09:54:41 AM by willib »
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Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2006, 10:51:50 AM »
I hope you're right about the heat.  Resistance was 0.5 in star, 0.25 delta, which is 0.0833 per coil.  I didn't unwind one to check for accuracy, but mathmatically (inches inside circumference + inches outside circumference / 2 x no. of turns / 12 = feet in length) comes out to a smidge over 62 feet.  Calculating ohms came up with very similar numbers to my meter's reading.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 10:51:50 AM by Titantornado »

willib

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2006, 12:49:13 PM »
i get similar numbers , 0.078 ohms / coil using your calculated length

but i get 0.157 ohms delta using product over sum (parallel resistance formula)

and using twice the ohms of one phase for the other resistance
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 12:49:13 PM by willib »
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Titantornado

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2006, 05:58:25 PM »
Oh yea, ya know what, I didn't have the jumpers hooked in when taking the ohm readings.  That would effect the results.  I'm sure your numbers are correct for delta.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 05:58:25 PM by Titantornado »

willib

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Re: My 14' mill construction techniques
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2006, 09:39:57 AM »
you're gonna have to weld a round plate on the bar stock , to hold your stator in place.

not an enviable position to be in i'm sure
« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 09:39:57 AM by willib »
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