Author Topic: Ethanol engines.... (Read 2688 times)

Andrew · « **on:** June 20, 2003, 05:54:55 PM »

SO....

I'm still in the designing phase right now...

Cadkey is working well. I have the crankcase, the fuel valve/inlet and the crank shaft completely designed....

Now I'm just waiting for Brian to post the numbers, and I will get working on drawing up the engine head. This is a diesel cycle... And the 3d rendered images will look funky in these colors, but just keep in mind this is a DRAWING! I suppose I will be updatig on the progress, with pictures, and if I can borrow a video camera from a friend, I could post some mpgs so yall can watch the the thing sputter and barely work.

SO here are the 3d rendered Images of my progress...

(I highly reccomend cadkey to any drafter)

Oh yah, dont get your nose jerked out of joint snooting at how posts are TOO BIG.

Deal with it.

-Andrew

ADMIN NOTE:

I fixed the monster image display. A simple HEIGHT=XXX WIDTH=YYY added to the "img src" tag so they display half size fixed it nicely.

TomW

windstuffnow · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2003, 07:15:01 PM »

Yikes, huge drawing! Nice drawing though. I use Autodesk Inventor 5... not sure the learning process ever ends on these types of programs. I like them because you can draw what you see in your mind and the 2d stuff doesn't cut it. For me I see the end product in my mind and with 2d drawing you actually have to decompile the information and lay it out in 2d... much easier to draw what you see.

I retired as an Auto Tech Certified Master about 10 years ago and always hated the engines basic design. I also Became certified in aircraft type 2 stroke engines... another waste. Very poor energy conversion devices. The crankshaft is one of the biggest problems. When the engine fires at TDC the pressure is massive... but your putting all the pressure on the centerline of the crank... no power. As the crank rotates it incrementally increases in torque until it reaches a 90 degree angle where the most power is extracted. But... When the piston moves to 1/2 its stroke you loose 60% of the pressure you produced by compressing and firing the fuel load. The crank is also the reason there is added friction, causing side loads on the pistons as it both on the firing side or compression side. I have some ideas for a crankless engine that would cure some of the problems and increase efficiency. Also would be considered a half stoke engine since it would create power on every half revolution... Another day for this engine...

Your doing great.. think outside of what has already been done and you'll find better ways... People say I'm a bit excentric although they use different words to describe it... I'm just having fun!

Ed

Andrew · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2003, 01:04:59 AM »

I guess the drawings are big because I am making up for something.... MY ENGINE (get your mind out of the gutter) Just for a little comparison, the long edge of the crankcase is only 0.9"....

ok then....

-Andrew

Demetri · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2003, 03:04:35 AM »

I've got a .46cid Magnum XL model engine, used but in good shape, that I'll sell you. Compression ignition, two stroke, burns methanol/nitro/castor already. I know, not nearly as fun as building your own, but maybe a start. I bought it from the owner of an r/c shop to go into one of my projects I never got around to building; he bought it new. Muffler, glow starter, four feet or so of silicone fuel line. I'd like $40(what I paid for it), plus shipping. Email me if you(or anyone else) are interested nospamplease/corvette350mph@msn.com

Please put something like "I'm interested in your model engine" in the subject line, so I don't delete it.

Demetri

Gordy · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2003, 08:50:39 AM »

ED,

I would be interested in hearing your thought on this 1/2 stroke engine.

I also saw an interesting engine being develeped for full sized air planes a few years ago. It was called a cam engine and did not have the throughs like a normal crank. Imagine a straigh shaft, now draw a line across it at 45 degres. If you looked at this from the end in 3D this line would be a circle (the cam). The pistons are double ended with double rollers in the center (both length wise and side ways). The pistons lay parallel to the crank. If you put 6 of these pistons around the crank you get a 12 cylinder engine, and the benifit of a very small front profile of the engine. The cam obviosly has some complex geomitry to it but thats the basics. A neat idea, the last I heard they had some flying. I'll have to look in Kit PLanes mag to see if they are still advertising it.

Good luck,

Gordy

windstuffnow · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2003, 10:56:14 AM »

Hi Gordy,

My thoughts are based on some experiments with a magnetic rotary engine some years ago. The rotary motor was a dud but came up with some interesting ideas based on the actuator for the motor. My idea is to use a magnetic coupling instead of a crank. I would like to power the coupling with a stirling system but have thought of using gas type or oil based systems as well. The coupling creates massive torque and would require the transfere system to fire twice on a single revolution. Theoretically it could be driven by any fuel... dinosaur or bio. It works on paper as they say ... at this point I still have to build the prototype for testing. Its getting higher on the list of project priorities but still a bit down the road.

Have Fun... I'll post something on it when I get there

Ed

Andrew · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2003, 07:17:43 PM »

Hi, all these engines you are talking about are right at this web site....

Check it out...

My favorite is the Wankel style engine.

http://www.keveney.com/Engines.html

-Andrew

Gordy · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2003, 09:37:53 AM »

Thanks Andrew neat site Gordy

John · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2003, 04:03:48 AM »

Andrew,

I wasn't going to say anything about your diary post, but your "deal with it" statement was totaly uncalled-for and shows your arrogance and total lack of consideration for other people.

I couldn't care less about a wide picture but when text lines stretch out across multiple pages (on this post, for me it is four) it is very hard read, for those of us who are not blessed with the computer equipment that you so obviously have.

Andrew, please grow up and consider other people's needs instead of doing something just because you can.

Well, I dealt with it. Are you mature enough to deal with us?

John

Andrew · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2003, 04:03:03 PM »

I am sorry John, I didn't mean it to sound rude or arrogant.

This post is very large on my computer too.

The reason I posted that comment was the fact that on a earlier post, I put up an "oversized" schematic of a fluorescent light inverter. I recieved 8 posts complaining on how big it was. I did not even get my post answered because everybody was inclined on posting on oversized posts.

This post is much bigger, and I assumed that I would get flamed the same way for oversizing posts.

I cannot control the size of the pictures I post, and I don't want my diary hijacked the same way as last time.

I'm sorry for offending you.

I'll try and be more diplomatic next time.

-Andrew

Brian · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2003, 01:18:52 AM »

Just noticed this. Nice pics. I have yet to use CadKey but from what I've heard it's a great program. I got my AutoCAD2000 certification a couple years ago and haven't used many other programs. The ability to upload and print the drawing as a 3D solid rather than a wireframe is more of a hassle than it's worth with AutoCAD. That feature alone would make me want to try CadKey.

Did you get anything going yet?? Sorry I couldn't be more help with the glow plug suggestions but I don't want to give you the wrong info!! Look forward to seeing some videos of it running. Have fun! Brian

John · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2003, 05:29:20 AM »

Apology accepted Andrew, I'm glad that you didn't mean it the way it sounded.

I'm sorry that you think that your earlier post was flamed, I don't think that anyone was attacking you personaly, but rather it was complaining about very wide text lines in general, and tring to get the ADMIN. to respond.

This issue was addressed not too long before you made your post and the ADMIN. had not responded, so your post had the misfortune of being the next oversize post to come along. I just hope that there is a way to be able to post large pictures and still keep the text down to a reasonable width.

I notice that you have other posts in the "normal" width. I thank you.

It is not true that you didn't get the answer you need because of the complaining about oversize posts. I am sure that anyone that wanted to share information with you would have done so. You need to give us more credit than to think that someone can "hijack" your post and somehow prevent someone else from helping you. There are other posts besides your's that are not answered, sometimes no one knows or can't take the time to read/answer the posts. I hope that someone can and will help you.

I hope that you can see now that no one here is trying to give you any trouble, I know that I am not.

I wish you well on your engine project and thank you for your mature response.

John

Andrew · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2003, 04:28:28 PM »

I'm just starting.

Have the plans finished. I'm going to start milling out the crankcase this week. I presume completion by the end of next week. I'll try and upload the videos when it is done. I'm not sure really what to do about the glow plug. I know the compression max is 26:1 and the min is 9:1 so I have mine set at about 12:1. What pressures would I create using that? Using that what temp range of glow plug would I use? Can you work the math for a 12:1 pressure/tempurature increase for ethanol. Any help would be great.

Also...

For the stirling folks out there...

For a mini sterling (Like the size of one's thumb) would liquid inside the chamber yield higher tork? (sp? I mean foot pounds... I'm not all with it today, you know what I mean. I've been soldering up solar panels all day, and I think the lead fumes got to my brain.) I was thinking oil or other oil product. If not, what kind of gas is usually in a stiling?

Helium?

-Andrew

Brian · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2003, 08:38:50 PM »

Hi! I'll do the math tomorrow and post it then. I've had my fill of math for the day but will be more than happy to figure the temp for you. More soon....

Brian

Andrew · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2003, 11:31:26 PM »

Tom W,

Thank you very much. It is much more enjoyable now that everyone can see it.

-Andrew

Andrew · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2003, 01:24:49 AM »

MEGA FUSE!

Sorry, this is not really renewable energy, but its cool

I got my hands on a huge fuse! Its like a skinnier beer keg. Pop it open, and theres like a 2.5" iron bar in the middle, its also ceramic. Guess what its for....

Came of an electric railway supply station! (Probably Japanese)

Just thought yall might want to know

-Andrew

TomW · « **Reply #16 on:** June 26, 2003, 07:15:58 AM »

Andrew;

You are welcome I would have done it sooner but kinda forgot about it after I looked at it the first time.

Hey, thats why I get the big bucks.

Cheers.

TomW

Gordy · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2003, 07:57:41 AM »

Andrew,

I know that surfing the web bites into project time(found out the hard way ;-). But if you do a web search for "stirling engines" you will come across a japanese site (in english) that has many.....pics and some plans. Sorry I can't give you the name of the site , I have suffered both a menory and a computer crash recently.

What I read was that you don't want any oil at all in the stirling engine. Because the oil will gum up in the hot end of the engine. They said the biggest problems are internal friction and leakage of the working gas. As to the gas used most small modles just use air. If you want eficency and hp can be increased by presureizing the system and using helium gas. But the ones I have seen on the web have been conpletely enclosed , the only holes are for presurizing and the out put shaft. But they have done alot of work to try and make a working seal for the output shaft, as it will have to hold the gas in at whatever presure they want to use , Think I saw one that was 500 psi.

Good luck,

Gordy

Andrew · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2003, 02:20:59 PM »

Hi,

just an interesting question...

If I have a multiple cylender engine with the piston heights "out of phase" (e.g. If i had a two cylender engine the pistons would be 180 degrees from each other, 4=90 degrees, etc) Would I need a counterweight? I wouldn't think so considering each piston would cancel out each other piston. If this is true, I might just avoid the big mess by machining an extra cylinder. I shouldn't be that hard to add it to my plans either.

-Andrew

Andrew · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2003, 04:07:45 AM »

Ummmm, the math would really be helpful,

I just started machining today. Its all coming together now!

I'm making this thing a two cylinder because I don't need to get angry trying to balance the counterweights. I just have a quick question before I machine the carburator (sp?), How do I machine it to accept a richer mixture (alcohol), and I'm a little confused about small 2 cycle carbs, is the fuel applied before or after the plate? I know the idle fuel intake is after the plate, but what about the normal one?

Any help would greatly be appreciated.

-Andrew

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Author Topic: Ethanol engines.... (Read 2688 times)