Author Topic: An efficient solar house  (Read 1705 times)

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bkrahmer

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An efficient solar house
« on: April 11, 2004, 12:32:35 PM »
In the spring of 2005, I'm planning to build a house in the country near Sandpoint, ID.  If you're not familiar with Sandpoint, it's in the panhandle, about 60 miles from Canada.  The interesting thing about Northern Idaho is that even though it is about 6-7 degrees North of where I grew up, Southern MN, the winters are much more mild.  I want to make the house as efficient as possible, not only to save money and the environment, but for the bragging rights as well.  It's just cool to tell people you have no utility bills.  :)


From most standpoints, it will be self-sufficient.  It will have a well, a septic system, a solar hot water system, and a solar electric system.  Due to the nature of solar insolation at such a high latitude, which I'll get into below, I haven't finalized the design yet.  I need to decide if my backup heat will be gas or electric.  If I go with gas backup heat, I would also probably use a gas stove and dryer.


The first rule of making an efficient system is to reduce losses, so the house will be insulated very well.  I'm thinking of going with 8" walls with higher density fiberglass insulation.  The roof will probably be a gambrel (barn) design, 12", again with HD fiberglass.  There will be a basement, probably ICF, surrounded with 3" or so of blueboard.  


The heating system will be in-floor radiant heat.  Here is where it get's fun!  I'm thinking of tying the solar hot water system, radiant, and domestic hot water systems together, thermally at least.  I should have plenty of room to put 114 ft2 of hot water collectors on the lower part of the roof, at 30 degrees from vertical.  I may either build my own using low-iron glass and selective coatings, or just buy them.  The solar hot water loop would be closed, using a water and non-poisonous antifreeze mixture.  It would have a copper tubing heat exchanger inside an insulated stainless steel box filled with water.  The box would be 2'x3'x4', or 180 gallons.  (BTW, do you think feeding the collectors serially will work okay?)  The heating loop would also be closed, but separate (using plain water.)  The return from the heating loop would be fed into another heat exchanger in the box, to pick up heat.  It would then go through the primary of a radiant gas boiler as backup.  (I could also use a tankless heater here.)  The domestic hot water system would also use heat from the storage tank.  Well water would be fed through another heat exchanger in the tank, then through the/a heater as backup, and distributed.


I'm shooting for a decently large array of solar panels with a tracking controller.  I'm going to go for grid-tie, and attempt to reduce my yearly electric bill as much as possible.  BTW, I won't be needing A/C.  The house should only get up to about 80 degrees for about 6 hours each day in the summer time.  As soon as the sun sets, it cools down rapidly to about 50-60.


The problem with being at such a high latitude is that the amount of solar energy available in the winter is less than half of what's available in the summer.  The azimuth of the sun at solar noon on 12/21 is like 17 degrees!  That doesn't present a problem for the solar electric system if I have net metering.  It does present a problem for my solar hot water system, however.  I'm hoping that the size I've designed will supply nearly all of my heating and domestic hot water needs in the winter.  If it does, I'm going to have a huge abundance of hot water in the summer.  I think I have two options here: 1. Cover up some of the panels in the summer. 2. Use the excess heat to do something useful.  If I could get an appropriately sized Stirling engine w/ a generator, I believe I could use the excess heat to generate electricity, which means I could reduce the size of my solar electric array.  However, I don't think that's going to happen in the next couple years.


If you have any thoughts on whether I should use gas or electric for my backup/appliances, please do share.  I'd also welcome any thoughts on the issue of excess heat in the summer.


cheers,

brian

« Last Edit: April 11, 2004, 12:32:35 PM by (unknown) »

Electric Ed

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2004, 03:32:15 PM »
Sounds good!

I agree that reducing your heat losses with super insulation is the way to go.


I also have 8" fiberglass in the walls, 12" fiberglass in the roof, and 4 1/2" styrofoam under the slab-on-grade floors.


Have you ever considered "passive solar" heating?

I have ten south facing windows, each 24 sq ft. (4' X 6') The dark colored tile floors absorb heat from the sun in the daytime, and release it into the house at night, during the heating season.

Roof overhangs prevent solar gain in the summer. No moving parts, nothing to maintain.


Electric Ed


Some photos here -


http://www.electric-ed.com/House/House1.htm

« Last Edit: April 11, 2004, 03:32:15 PM by Electric Ed »

bkrahmer

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2004, 07:32:39 PM »
Thanks Ed.  Your house looks great!  I did forget to mention that I was thinking of using passive solar as part of the design.  Unfortunately, because of my gambrel roof design, I have a couple unique issues.  First, I can't count on my overhangs for shading because the bottom of them will be over 11' off the ground.  Secondly, I haven't yet seen a gambrel roof house that incorporated passive solar, so I'm trying to figure something out that will look okay architecturally.


To create a thermal mass for the passive solar, I'm thinking that I could drop the floor on the front part of the house about 2", and use lightweight concrete with the radiant embedded in it, instead of the normal under the floor use.  I would probably cover it with dark tile.  To utilize the passive solar heat evenly during the daylight hours, I'm thinking that I could design a bypass circuit using solenoid valves that would bypass my thermal storage and any heaters if a certain temperature diffential was realized, and circulate the radiant water through the house.  That should prevent the living room and dining rooms from overheating on sunny winter days.


later, brian

« Last Edit: April 11, 2004, 07:32:39 PM by bkrahmer »

Energystarman

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2004, 07:55:24 PM »
I too, am planning to build an Energy Star or highly efficient residence.  I reside in central lower Michigan and have done research on weather conditions to see if solar or wind power is plausible.  Where I am at, the weather bureau reports 7 out of 10 days are overcast.  Active solar is out, but passive might be beneficial.  Also they report average wind speed is 6mph and surrounded by trees, so wind power is out.  End result is to use some passive solar and attempt to conserve the energy I do use.

I loved Elect. Ed's design and agree that the system should have minimum gadgets for me and future owners of the house.  Would you have problems selling it, if it required all kinds of constant TLC?   Wanna climb up to repair in the midst of an ice storm, etc?  

I want to build complete with ICF (All walls R-42)to rafters, R-50 blown in ceilings and did you know the best Anderson Argon filled Low-E window only has an R-value of 4.5?  The Swedes add an vinyl single pane window on the inside of those and with the 2-3" air gap, get a total rating of R-15? Adding an additional single pane inside to walk-out sliders, as well.  

Usually, a 2,000 sq. ft. house needs a 125,000 btu furnace and larger A/C.  Built this way, you do not even need a 60,000 btu furnace!! And around here, ICF costs only 5% more than conventional black and frame design.  I have some unique ideas for using incoming water to cool and preheat for water heater.  

Reach me at trader2079@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: April 12, 2004, 07:55:24 PM by Energystarman »

Energystarman

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2004, 07:59:07 PM »
I wish there was a place to actively talk on energy savings.  I am on yahoo messenger under the same name.  In regards to you question or gas or electric back-up, check with electric company.  If you go complete electric, they offer a substantial discount on rates.  Inquire into this in your area.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2004, 07:59:07 PM by Energystarman »

troy

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2004, 04:01:56 PM »
Even if the utility co. is willing to give you a "break" on the cost of electricity, an all electric home is bad for the environment.  For example, an electric hot water heater is throwing 80% of the fuel value of the fossil fuel away, compared to burning the fossil fuel (natural gas or propane) right in the water heater.


Every step in the energy conversion process has inefficiencies and losses.  There are many steps to get from coal to electricity to hot water in your house.


And ultimately, as energy prices more truly reflect the cost of production, electricity made from a fossil fuel will generally (and should) cost more than the fossil fuel burned on site to produce the same amount of heat.


Best regards,


troy

« Last Edit: April 15, 2004, 04:01:56 PM by troy »

bkrahmer

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2004, 10:46:14 PM »
That's an aspect that I hadn't thought about.  Thanks for the info.  Luckily, almost all of the power in the NW comes from hydroelectric dams.  They destroy the rivers, but at least all the damage was done before I was born.  :)  


I think I will go with a big gas bottle outside, and maybe someday I'll have enough solar panels to go 100% solar, and go back to electric then.


cheers

« Last Edit: April 15, 2004, 10:46:14 PM by bkrahmer »

ToddH

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2004, 05:42:57 PM »
Propane would be your best bet, I live a few miles away from Sandpoint and I don't think you will get enough sun in the winter to heat water.


Why bother with the cost involving a grid tied system. I have been off the grid for almost 4 years and have never wished I had the grid for back-up.

Granted, I have to run a generator during the winter but, I only ran it a total of 48 hours last winter.


And, I would spend the money on extra PV vs. buying a tracker. At this Lat. the trackers don't make a whole lot of difference.


You can stop by backwoods solar http://www.backwoodssolar.com/ (in Sandpoint)and see if they will answer your questions.

Backwoods charges full MSRP on everything so look for better deals on equipment else ware.

I really like these guys at http://www.windsun.com/ , I bought a bunch of equipment from them.


The folks at backwoods were pretty snotty to my wife & I but, you might catch them in a better mood.


Northwest Energy Storage is close by too. They are in Bonners Ferry and were pretty helpful in answering questions.  http://www.nwes.com

« Last Edit: April 17, 2004, 05:42:57 PM by ToddH »

elvin1949

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Re: An efficient solar house
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2004, 06:54:28 AM »
just a suggestion

go with a underground tank if you can

propane don't like realy low temp's

later

elvin
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 06:54:28 AM by elvin1949 »