System and Control Rack

[mlz]

Spent time this A.M. with a great bunch of people on IRC talking about a modular System and Control Rack.  Basic idea is to combine controllers (Solar, Wind bypass, hydro, etc), inverters, monitoring, and inverters into one system of equipmentment.  This would allow overviews of operation and control and be completely modular, allowing for people to add modules that fit their needs, all using a open standard for communication.  This would allow different people to design circuits and know they will work with the other equipment.

At this point I've gotten most of the supply and load bus' figured out, as well as part of the control and monitoring bus.  But would like to see what other people think, get suggestions for things it needs to take into account.  At this point I'm waffling on multiple bus' internally and just using a 48volt bus, and having a DC/DC converter to connect a 12v or 24v string to the system.  The loads are 5vdc 12vdc & 120VAC(2).  There are two AC bus' for stacking inverters to provide 240vac.

Really would like some input, I will probably build the thing either way, but would be interesting to see what other people could contribute.  The only thing I ask it be kept "open source"  I really want to see something that others can use and build on, rather than a closed system.

By the Way, credit for the idea goes to Ibedonc, Tomw, RonB on IRC.  Thanks for all the great ideas guys!

[TomW]

Hey Mike;

Just wanted to point out that the IRC channel where  we talked about this was:

irc.anotherpower.com #otherpower

Sorry but this confusion over the IRC means we need to be relatively specific on where the good stuff is.

See you on the channel, Mike.

Cheers.

TomW

[bob g]

i am not clear as to what you are trying to accomplish, please ellaborate if you will

been kicking around the idea of seeing if the board members could sort of develope some different levels of systems in sort of a "fantasy football" format, whereas:

a dollar figure could be set along with maybe a skill level such as

1. a wind system, that integrates solar on a modest scale, that parts can be sourced from some common outlet that can be done by most anyone for under say 1000 bucks US.

perhaps an output figure could be arrived at.

   some possible limits might be 48 inch rotors, conversion motors to generators, 12volt storage, modified sine wave inverters, and charging of less than 400 watts peak, for example

2. maybe an intermediate system that employs wind/solar or solar/water or some other setup in that can be sourced at above, but maybe needs more skill level to produce, and with a higher and more useful output, maybe in the 2000 dollar level.

   some possible limits might be 60-72 inch rotors, disc or brake drum purpose built alternators, 12 or 24 volts systems, larger inverters, charge controllers, peak charging of perhaps 800 watts, for example

3 then maybe a higher level system, along with more ellaborate controlls, much higher output, higher skill levels, and more in depth capability, for say the 3000 dollar level.

    some possible limits might be 84-96 inch rotors, purpose built or modified alternators, 24 or 48 volt systems, still larger inverters, perhaps some pure sine wave inverters, charge controllers, etc. with peak charging in the 1200 watt range.

4 then say an open class for the more affluent folks, with all the bells and whistles.  

    still larger possibilities exist here,

would be kind of neat to apply your idea for open source, to the above format or something similar, to see how folks could or would divide up to develope these systems,

whereas not everyone would have to recreate the wheel time after time.

other idea's i have been kicking around for my system is the use of rack mounts that are common in the computer industry, along with useing the cases of rack mount computer related components to bring the system into a modular and more tightly contained unit.

i wish i would have been on with you guys to see where you are heading with this

curious here to hear more

bob g

[kurt]

here are step by step instructions on how to get to the irc channal if anyone needs them http://oneota.net/~earthsourcepowr/IRC/chatpage.html

note: anywere you see | in the pictures that is just were my text curser was when i took the screenshot so ignore it.

[mlz]

Bob, the basic idea is to create a unified control and interfacing system for all the great AE/RE projects out there.  Part of the idea came from ibedonc's work on the inverter, and part of it came from looking at the rats nest of wireing that is my current control panel.  

As an update, the system is working, but am now rethinking parts of the system.   Currently it held up to about 150 amps of power before melting parts.  I would like to get that to 450amps per chassis.  

The entire system is stackable, and at this point I'm thinking of just making an initial control system that can work with other projects.  The reasoning is that it would be very hard to keep things standard in this environment.  Would like to get some feed back from others on this.

[LEXX]

good idea guys, especially since we can now (with ibedonc's help) pretty much build every part of a fairly good system (except batteries and solar panels and even the solar panels if you get the cells).  It would only be smart to build them as mix and match, let's face it, no matter how much we like to think of our own windmill idea as being unique it still puts out the same thing as anyone else's so lets do it!  I will try to help as much as I can, but the brunt of the work, I'm sure, will be done by the usual suspect, and for that Thank You in advance

LEXX

[bob g]

i stopped by my local computer recycler today and found something of interest at least to me.

they have the computer stackable frames, or rack mount systems

they are industry standard, made of aircraft aluminum, brand new and in the boxes

assembled they are 9 ft tall!

they are priced at 24.95 each US

i am leaning this direction as i already have one inverter 3kwatt, pure sine wave rack mount unit, an industrial power supply with constant current constant voltage control and another couple of smaller rack mount pure sine wave inverters to add to the system,

also i think that my square D breaker panel will mount between the rails

i also have a few other rack mount empty chassis's to fill with other goodies, and makeing a guage panel to monitor would integrate well,

would like  to find a rack mount oscope to monitor my induction generator wave form, and if i can talk TomW into helping me i would like to place a rack mount pc to do some of the watchdog and control functions.

i think they have a dozen or so of these rack mount systems there, if you are interested.

would be very interested in what your system looks like, and what it is so to speak

more details man,,,,

bob g

[mlz]

Planning on posting a bunch of stuff this week.  You can get rackmount O-Scopes, also shelves, keyboard trays, etc.  Even blank panels.  I use Comm racks for my stuff, and cabinets for customer equipment (easier to lock up!)  

I'm going to be focusing more on the control and monitoring for the next little while.  Basically a standard interface.

[ibedonc]

where you at Bob , are those the open rail type I,e , two alu rails

I would be interested in one , if it did not cost much for shipping

I am in center texas

[bob g]

yes they are the open two rail design, aluminum

they are well packaged and should ship just fine, but i don't have a clue as to whether ups could ship them (length)

the box is just over 9 ft length, and looks to be about 10x12 inches

if you can check whether ups can ship it, i maybe can get you one

bob g

[bob g]

oh the rack systems are in seattle

bob g

[bob g]

i for one are very interested in your approach to this topic, control and monitoring

patiently awaiting your posts

bob g

[TomW]

bob g;

Far as I know UPS won't ship a package that size but they may have changed their policy since I shipped with them a lot.

That physical size is up in Motor Freight territory.

Cheers.

TomW