Author Topic: Driving my EV.  (Read 9212 times)

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Jerry

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Driving my EV.
« on: May 01, 2005, 03:26:19 AM »
My son and I completed a 1985 Ford Ranger EV conversion a short while back. Well he did 80% or more.


Like machining bell housing to motor plate, flywheel to motor adaptor, pilot bearing adaptor, front motor mounts, battery boxes front and rear, wire jumpers, for & aft cables, master power contactor & on & on & on.


I did supervise from the easy chair and supplied batteries, wire, split loom, wire ties, and oh ya my old guy oppinions.


We built the charger into the truck under the hood. It consits of 900 UF of motor RUN caps and 3 auto type battery isolators configured as a 100 amp fullwave bridge rectifier. Thats all they are anyway just some diodes in prety blue heatsinks. 7 amps over night has it good to go for the next day.


This still of charger or pulser desulphater has been discribed here on the board befor. I love it. Its very light, small and very eficient.


We have 20 six volt batteries onboard. 120 volt system. We use a Curtice 400 amp 120 volt speed controler. Its pictured below thermo coupled to an old amplifier heatsink.


Were using a 56 hp Addvanced sires wound 72 volt motor.


I've been driving the truck 3 weeks to work and home. Thats 7.5 miles each way.


Many days I use it for eronds all over town. Its fun to drive. Very quiet. No need to push the clutch in at the light either for stopin or startin. Thats rests my old tiered leg.


I driven 30 miles on one charge. A few of the batteries are rejuvinated or desulfated. I think  it would go 50 miles on a set of new batteries. But we allready had these and I can cruse at an easy 55 mph. We did top it out at around 65 on a test run.


My son estamated it takes about $20 a mounth from grid power. I'll be charging it from my store and home wind power next fall when the better winds come back. That will be a free ride.


I should save $1500 a year or more in fule costs?


Heres a few pix.














                         JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 03:26:19 AM by (unknown) »

nanotech

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2005, 10:59:51 PM »
Very nicely done.


Is there any way to get a schematic of the speed controller off you?  :)


And a detailed description of how you built your charger?


What do you do about the 12V system in the truck?  What do you use for a DC-DC converter?


Can you tell I'm extremely interested in doing an electric conversion myself?


Now I just need to find someone who'll donate a motor!!  :)

« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 10:59:51 PM by nanotech »

pyrocasto

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2005, 12:49:09 AM »
I'm the same, very interested. I'm gonna start with an electric bike though, since it will be easier and less up front cost.


You think maybe covering the back side will help out to reduce a little wind resistance?

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 12:49:09 AM by pyrocasto »

commanda

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2005, 01:12:30 AM »
how do you get on with the registration authorities?


Here in Australia I'd need to get an approved engineer in on the conversion before doing anything.


And they've just outlawed electric assist push-bikes. They did have an OK for up to 200 watts, but apparently the police can't tell whether you're under or over 200 watts, so now it's no watts.


Amanda

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 01:12:30 AM by commanda »

Gary D

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2005, 07:36:29 AM »
Jerry, does the motor have the capability to recapture some juice during breaking?

Is that what your huge caps are for?

 Beautifull work as usual!

 Love your posts!

Seperate battery for headlights, taillights, etc.?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 07:36:29 AM by Gary D »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2005, 10:14:43 AM »
Hi nanotech


The speed controler is a Curtis. They may or maynot give the schematic?


You could build your own. We looked into that a littel. We tosed around the idea of using one of those small motor speed controlers and amplifying its output with the big IGBTs.


Not enough time to expiriment and develop a good working unit but I may do that in the future.


I have built simple speed controls with large relays and taps on the battery banks at 12v, 24v, 36v and 48v on a couple modified/hope up golf carts. You can also use home made large resisters from stainless steel strips. You bend them into a zig-zag and tap them a several points along the way.


Since my trips are short I don't wory about a large 12 volt supply for the 12 volt things, lights, turn signal, blower fan, radio and such. Right now I'm using one old red top Optima 12 volt. I'll be adding one 2 volt electric lift truck battery to this for a 14 volt supply while on the road.


So far the Optima has given me enough drive time to get home at night with the head lights, wipers and blower fan running but I only have a 15 minut comute.


I've thought of the computer powersupplies as they convert the ac line to dc anyway and the work down to 80 volts ac and the have 12 volt, 3 volt and 5 volt outputs.


I was going to do what we do at the store for our demo power supplies. we wire 3 high amperage 5 volt supplies in sires. These supplies outputs are adjustable from 4v to 6 v so we can set the voltage from 12v to 18 volts very highly regulated.


Problem is these supllies use a voltage doubler circut and there dcsection at the line input is 300 volts DC. I do have 120 volts dc onboard so I'll work something out. I'm also installing a couple 120 DC outlets for powering ac/dc type power tools and lights.


Used lift truck motors, old aircraft starter/generaters, tandem or multi golf cart motors could be used. I'd even thought about a cluster of tredmill motors as an option?


I took the picure with the bed off. We wanted this truck to look as stock as posable. Thats why we framed the battery box under the bed. Now I'm working on a lift bed for easy battery access. It also will dump a load of barkdust nice. I'll be beefing up the suspension some although it only sits slightly low in the rear.


I have plenty of power on board to run thre lift. Thinking of a 120 volt dc wench also (2.5 hp tred mill motor) I have some real nice 90% gear heads for that.


The charger is the pulse charger idea posted here several months back when all the pulse charger desulfater threds were going on. There has been a schimatic posted here. Maybe someone could repost that diagrm.


Its abit dangerus since its tied directly to the ac line. I can't post the diagram but I'll try to disrib it. It is very simple and It works very well.


One side of the ac line is conected to one terminal of the capacitor. The other terminal of the capacitor is conected to one of the "AC" terminals of the fullwave bridge. The other "AC" terminal of the fullwave bridge is conected to the other ac line. The dc outputs of the fullwave bridge are conected to the battery.


If you made this setup without the cap the bridge would expolde. The cap provides the pulseing.


For 12 volt charging 24UF delivers 1 amp of chargeing. Nice thing about these chargers is they don't care if the battery bank is 2 volts or 120. The battery bank voltage will vary the amperage.


The caps are motor run NOT start. Start caps will get very hot and self distructed.


I'm using 900 UF of caps. At charge start up I see about 15 amps of inrush tapering fast to 12 amps and after an HR or so levels of to 8 amps.


I'm using a group of missmached batteries. Some with pore SG are starting to get much better SG and catch up to the better batteries.


As far as safty conected directly to the AC line. A large enogh line isolation transformer can help this situation. Sofar I've had no ill effects with direct line conection.


I'll post upgrades as they happen.


                          JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 10:14:43 AM by Jerry »

domwild

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2005, 08:02:13 PM »
Great pics, Jerry! With so many projects going, do you have any time for drinking left over??
« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 08:02:13 PM by domwild »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2005, 08:53:52 PM »
Hi Chris.


I just took the bed off for some suspension work. I drive it with the bed on.


                            JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 08:53:52 PM by Jerry »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2005, 08:57:02 PM »
May tack a home built alt to the tail shaft of the motor. When you hit the brake it will be switched on to the batteries? Could work.


                        JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 08:57:02 PM by Jerry »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2005, 08:59:07 PM »
The registration for a gas car $50 for electric $400. They goota get that road tax from ya somehow?


                            JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 08:59:07 PM by Jerry »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2005, 09:06:15 PM »
My son bought an electric conversion addon thing for his bike. About $200 off the net. Its fun just start peddeling and at 5 mph it will take off. Has a speed control. Will do about 30 mph and you can still peddel if you want. Its a bunch of fun to ride. Seems to go along ways.


OBTW. Two good books about car conversion.



  1. Convert it by Michael P. brown
  2. Build your own Electric Vehicle by Bob Brant


And check out KTA services for parts and good info.


                  JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 09:06:15 PM by Jerry »

RP

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 09:18:36 PM »
As to a source for a motor:  Couldn't the brake disk style genny be used as a three phase motor with a brushless motor driver?  It could then double as a regenerative brake too.


rp

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 09:18:36 PM by RP »

BT Humble

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2005, 09:49:50 PM »


May tack a home built alt to the tail shaft of the motor. When you hit the brake it will be switched on to the batteries? Could work.



Is it possible that the guys who built your motor have already thought of using it in a regenerative configuration?  It might be worth giving them a call, since it's already attached to the drivetrain...


BTH

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 09:49:50 PM by BT Humble »

electrondady1

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2005, 10:03:38 PM »
 congratulations, that is excellent work. if you could charge it off the windmills i'd say your living in the future!!! now we've got to catch up
« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 10:03:38 PM by electrondady1 »

nothing to lose

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2005, 08:33:16 AM »
Maybe you should toss a Gas mower/alternator in the back of the truck. Kinda like have a spare tire for an emergency, and also you could claim it's still a gas vehicle that way :)


Have you found any decent sources for good used motors? I have been wanting to build one myself forever and I have all kinds of donor vehicles here I can use. Just can't pay $1,000 for one motor!


Mini vans, Lebaron convertable, 84 ranger 5 speed, etc.. here. No large electric motors!


You have one really cool truck now! Love it.

How long did it take you to build that?

And how many horses do you think it takes to move it down the road well?

I been thinking about 18hp if I ever build me one.


Looks right now like the closet I will get for awhile is a hybrid. I am thinking take high HP 120V AC motors or several 2hp Ac motors and run them off an inverter.

 3 Simple switches. One manaul for when I don't want them at all, postive shut off, no power! One on the gas peddle, only works when pressed down so far, like highway or fast take offs hills etc. And the 3rd a shut off on the brake peddle so anytime the brake is pressed the motors are dead.

 Would be just off and on type operation, but I think it would still save alot of feul on constant speed driving. Also if I do this I am thinking a daul battery type setup where the main batttery is always charged as normal, and the gas engine is charging the driving bank only when idling at lights or braking.


I may do this to my F150 truck sooner than planned, it just started grinding the starter bad! I have to turn the engine with the fan belts, so it's not just the starter, probably have a bad toothe on the flywheel. The hybrid system could also be used with a manual switch to do that too as a starter then I won't have to drop the tranny!

 Today may be a good day to start on that :)

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 08:33:16 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2005, 08:43:10 AM »
"Were using a 56 hp Addvanced sires wound 72 volt motor."


Re-read the posts.

Do you think it needs 56HP, or would alot less do well? Most of the EV motors I been looking at, and cannot afford, are 18-20HP. Most of the used EV's I have looked at are also about that Hp. Do you think you need all those horses or think you have alot more that really needed?

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 08:43:10 AM by nothing to lose »

pyrocasto

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2005, 09:23:01 AM »
That's what I'm wondering as well, because they get REAL expensive when you go up higher like that. If you could find a hybrid car in a junk yard(good luck ;) ) you could take it's motor. Just wait until a few people total thiers and take it. :)

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 09:23:01 AM by pyrocasto »

ghurd

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2005, 11:08:59 AM »
""Gas mower/alternator in the back...""


Thats what I was talking about a while ago!


The truck has a 50 mile limit.

He needs to go 60 miles to somewhere.

A 3.5hp brigs and alternator in the bed.


Not to power the electric motor, more to keep the batteries from going dead as fast.


Going 80 miles?

Let the brigs run while there.

The batteries will be a little higher for the return trip.


Say it uses a gallon of gas.  So what?  The other option is driving a totally gas powered car, and using 3 gallons of gas.


More of an inside-out hybred.  Almost all the power from the battery, instead of almost all the power from the gas.


I had 2 dune buggies. 1 was titled as a VW, the other was a Corvair. Never any problems.  Maybe don't tell them about the batteries?


G-


PS- EV Income tax credit?

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 11:08:59 AM by ghurd »
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Big All

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2005, 01:06:02 PM »
I was kinda wondering the same thing, but was thinking of the motor as being a stepper.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 01:06:02 PM by Big All »

nanotech

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2005, 03:31:31 PM »
My idea instead of the gas mower engine is a weed eater engine.  I mean, how long will a weed eater run at idle on a gallon of gas?  :P


As far as converting the mini-vans or the LeBaron, remember that an automatic transmission requires the fluid pump to be spinning at all times, whereas an electric car everything comes to a complete stop at a stop light.  So automatics are not a real good choice for electric conversions.  Trust me on this, I've looked into it!!  :)


The Ranger is a prime candidate for conversion, though.


I myself am looking for a Geo Metro or a Ford Festiva that has a blown engine in it.  I'm going to be ditching the gasoline components anyways, so I don't care about the condition of them.  Just as long as the body and transmission are still in good shape....


The big things I need to do is find sbematics for the speed controller, charger, and DC-DC converter so I can build them myself.  I mean, Digi-Key is literally just down the road from me (local calling distance even)!!


See, the big thing for me is to cut down on my gasoline expenditure first, as it's sitting at $200 a month right now.  If gas goes up to what is forcasted ($3.00 a gallon by end of summer) that figure will go up to close to $300 a month.  If I can eliminate that cost, then I can start putting that money towards shifting the house off the grid.  Or finishing building the house, first!!  :D

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 03:31:31 PM by nanotech »

wooferhound

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2005, 05:03:16 PM »
here is that pulse charger curcuit . . .






« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 05:03:16 PM by wooferhound »

nothing to lose

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2005, 06:50:00 PM »
"I had 2 dune buggies. 1 was titled as a VW, the other was a Corvair. Never any problems.  Maybe don't tell them about the batteries?"


I got by on a few things also at times :)

Batteries shoul dnot be a problem, Toyota hybrid comes to mind, still gas powered car so I don't think it needs high priced registration, though I don't know for sure since I never found one for sale :(


As far as anyone thinking it's bad to cheat on feul taxes, I pay them all the time, EVERY cord of wood I cut or anytime I mow the yard, four wheeling off road ect...

It's time we get some road use for THOSE road taxes too!!


Ya that hybrid stuff I was thinking about years ago, but I never find a cheap motor for such a use I could drive on. So now I am thinking the simple on and off setup so you got the elecric horses when horses are needed. Gas only when less horses needed.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 06:50:00 PM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2005, 07:04:02 PM »
"My idea instead of the gas mower engine is a weed eater engine.  I mean, how long will a weed eater run at idle on a gallon of gas?"


Not much power from the smaller ones, have to always mix gas and oil etc.. for 2 cycle. If you had a large one might as well go for a lawn mower engine anyway. A 5hp and even larger will run for long long time on a gallon of gas. You need the Horse Power to run any gennie that will do enough charging to make running one worthwhile.


"As far as converting the mini-vans or the LeBaron, remember that an automatic transmission requires the fluid pump to be spinning at all times, "


Actaully an automatic will work, not as good but does work. As for the tranny, I would keep a 5 Speed but was thinking more for direct drive for the other front wheel drive models.


Finding a good motor cheap is what I can't figure out how to do so far!

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 07:04:02 PM by nothing to lose »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2005, 08:18:19 PM »
I've charged it a few times from my wind power. Now just waiting till next fall when the good winds return.


                      JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 08:18:19 PM by Jerry »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2005, 08:20:51 PM »
I think ED at windstuff is designing motors from dual rotors. Might be a way for you guys to get a good motor at a good price. Just build it yourself?


                        JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 08:20:51 PM by Jerry »

veewee77

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2005, 08:07:14 AM »
electroauto.com is another good resource for electric vehicle conversion parts.  They are the same people who bring you "Convert It!". Very helpful people!


Doug

« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 08:07:14 AM by veewee77 »

veewee77

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2005, 08:11:35 AM »
about how much did this cost you altogether?  I am going to build something similar and need to know costs involved. . .


I know how much batteries are and etc, just need to know the total cost and what you paid for the vehicle to be converted.


Thanks


Doug

« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 08:11:35 AM by veewee77 »

veewee77

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2005, 08:22:13 AM »
Regenerative braking takes a lot of complexity to make it effective, and then it is only marginally worth the effort. You will actually get better distance from the battery bank by altering your driving style to use the brakes as little as possible in the first place. Start off slow, keep distance between you and the driver ahead and let off the accelerator well in advance of traffic lights and etc. Electric vehicles don't have "engine braking" like fossil-fuel burners do so in many cases it is possible to get up to speed and let off the pedal and 'coast' a significant distance without applying power at all. Especially in situations where it is flat or slightly downhill between traffic lights, you will find you may require very little power and in some cases, none at all to maintain your speed. Minimize the use of brakes and you will maximize the battery-distance.  Brakes waste energy as heat.  If you don't use them as much, less energy is wasted.  Even in the production cars with the high-dollar AC drive units, regenerative braking is not as effective as conservative driving style.


Doug

« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 08:22:13 AM by veewee77 »

jimjjnn

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2005, 09:47:39 AM »
You could engage regen braking by either tapping off the brake light switch to engage the circuit or add a second brake switch that is adjusted before the brake light switch so the brake lights aren't on during regen. Also regen has a pretty good braking action as I found out on Honda Civic hybrid. Got to drive one up Loveland Pass in Colorado and back to Denver. Coming back, regen was on almost all the way as it is down hill most of the way. Hill climbing was a little weak but not too bad. The engine shut itself off and was running most electric coming back. Almost 100 miles  on less than a gallon and a 1/2 of gas. Interesting trip.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 09:47:39 AM by jimjjnn »

Big All

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2005, 05:30:22 PM »
I took a look around the http://www.windstuffnow.com site but failed to find any mention of building motors.

So how about it Ed, are you holdin' out on us? :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 05:30:22 PM by Big All »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2005, 10:08:54 PM »
Hi Doug.


The truck was my sons. I don't know what he paid for it. KTA shows the motor at $1200, my son found a good used motor on the net for $600. BTW the motor is rated 19 hp cont. 20.6 1 hr thermal and 65 hp max at 500 amps. Its rated for 72 to 120 volt use. For vehicles up to 4,00 lbs and we're right at that. We estamate by using the 400 amp controller it tops out at 56 hp. I'd like to get the 550 amp controller but its $1400 and it would reduce my trip time and distance do to my heavy foot.

Same thing on the speed control. Its normal price $975 he found 1/2 price used.


You can get blem but good batteries under $40 each.


I may be helping a freind convert an S-10. We'll be trying my 185 LB PM motor and a home brew speed control made with a large home built resister and 100 amp relays.


I've done this in my sooped up upgraded golf cart conversion and another freind has done this to and older Datsun PU with good success. So we're going to try it on this S-10.


Small trucks are the best for conversion. They have the frame, suspension, good aero dinamics and manual transmisions. These are all a plus for the E-car.


I'm thinking of replaceing the rear end with a 3/4 ton with 4.10 gears rather the the stock ranger 3.73s.


This would improve my around town exceleration and alow me to use OD on the open road. I'll also be beefing up the springs so I can haul a load of barkdust or what ever in the tilt bed.


                         JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 10:08:54 PM by Jerry »

pyrocasto

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2005, 11:09:53 PM »
One thing to help on mileage would be tire pressure. I would make sure you have it at least at max. My tires hole 45psi, but I wouldnt mind have a few more. :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 11:09:53 PM by pyrocasto »

Jerry

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Re: Driving my EV.
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2005, 10:24:23 PM »
Mine say 35 max. I've been runing them at 42. I've thought of manufacture home tires(trailerhouse). They are 10 or 12 ply and hard as a rock. several tire COs make e-car tires but I think they are exspencive?


Started installing a temporary flat bed today.


                       JK TAS Jerry

« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 10:24:23 PM by Jerry »