alky_D

[Bruce S]

This is a test of my pictures for the plastic still.

Bruce

[Bruce S]

Okay NTL;

   Seems I have my pictures worked out for a correct size. I have more pics no my computer and ready to resize, but have friends in from Brussels and work is getting in the way so I'll post more soon.

BTW this is a 32 quart container available for a pretty good price , but not as good as the $10.00 for a 55gal drum. IAJ.

Bruce S

Note to Admin: If you wish for me to not put this up I will stop ASAP. Don't want anyone to get into trouble, especially me and this great forum.

[Bruce S]

FROM NTL:

"Perhaps we should not discuss the Hydrated part online. Don't want the wrong people showing up for the wrong reasons. Revenuers not welcome.

"I'm headed to Poplar Bluff, MO soon to see a farmers unit running that makes use of all the rice being grown down there. He keeps the cast-off fro harvest, tells me it's costing him on average $.25/gal to make it out of low grade rice than even using sugar beets. We'll see."

I am about 1- 1 1/2 hours away I think. If ya want check with the farmer and if he doesn't care maybe I'll meet you over there if I can. I'd like to see that also.

So after reading your post above, and knowing the little bit I know about yeast and fermentation (not alot, but some) where would one find the alcohol in a barrel of mash?

Top, middle, bottom?

"Once I see that to mash is starting to get clear at the top and the J tube isn't bubbling anymore I wait one more day.

I open the top take off the J tube insert a siphon and pull all this stuff into 5 gal buckets. I clean out the 20 q and then insert the false bottom bucket, the false bottom seperator and the first 5 gal bucket of stuff."

I don't really know much about this but thinking out loud here.

My thought is the yeast is killed 2 ways, alcohol kills yeast and also heat. Now if we used yeast to get a batch started, it grows fast right. So we take some mash out to save yeast for the next batch, always doing this we don't have to buy more each time. This would make using brewers yeast less expensive if we only buy it once and grow our own from then on. The old bread makers did the same thing, saving a ball of dough from each batch to use as a starter for the next batch of bread. So why not for brewing??

If it works same as the bread did, just refrigerate it till ready for use to stop the fermentation.

If the alcohol richest part of the mash accumilates primarily in one area of the tank, then if I put a drain valve there and strain off that part to a second tank before the yeast dies then perhaps the first tank would provide a larger yield total from the same mix. Thinking here if the bulk of alcohol were removed the yeast could live longer and produce more.

When the yeast does die out, how much sugar is left over in the mash? When you mix your mash have you figured it to a point where all the sugar is used up before the yeast dies? This is something I am wondering about also. If sugar is still left in the mash after removing the alcohol, then if I drained off say 1/4 - 1/2 tank when nearly done but not quite, then dump back in the old mash from a previous batch, would that dilute the alcohol present while still providing what ever sugar was still in the old mash. This way all sugar is sure to be used up and the yeast lives a maximum life. Do ya think removing the alcohol from a mash then dumping it back into a fresh batch would hurt anything?

Since a 55gal teflon lined steel barrel with removeable lid costs me $10 I figure I'd use one for this, not much more than a 5gal gas can costs anyway.

To begin with I will stick to what works, at least till I know what I am doing. But food for thought. Have you tried auto exhaust for a heat source for distilling?

I mean the heat is there as a by product, radiator or exhaust

If we could control the temp of a tank properly using that waste heat while we drive, like heating antifreeze and cirulating around a tank of mash, then vent into a cooler tank, any cost of heating would be eliminated. For small cars that may not be much of an option, but the 78 Ford truck I just bought has 3 tanks! Main rear tank, one smaller side tank each side. So if I were mount a mash tank under it I could vent to one side tank for storage. Then use an electric feul pump to empty that tank or mix with gasolene as needed. Just a thought

Heating costs is something everyone seems to mention when discussing alcohol for feul, if it's that much of an expense that might be away to remove it!

.

nothing to lose"

NTL:

 I am with you 1000% on that I don't want anyone to show up thinking that there are drinks just for showing up. That would be stupid on my part and I really don't feel like going to jail for any reason.

I really should re-read my stuff before I post it rather than just some quick over view.

I gent in Poplar Bluff should've read that he's saying that he's able to make it on average for $.25/per gal less than what I'm able to do currently. SORRY for the misteak.

I will call him and see if he doesn't mind more people coming out or meeting near there. He's a old friend of my mom's side of the family and lives near the landing strip for the crop duster so it should be a problem.

Since I have been dealing with straight sugar I've gotten lazy and haven't looked into the starch and carbs side of fermentation in a long time. I am looking into sugar beets for the starch side as they can be had pretty cheap at the farmers markets

The fermentation normally kills the yeast, besides it's the cheapest yeast I can find so I'm not too worried about the quality of it, being bread yeast it hasn't had any problem handling the heat.

NOW if you are into making Soda-Pop or beer or even better Wine, and use those types yeast then I would say to use it once you have finished with it in the wine making side. There's a product out that we used in S.A. put out by a water softener company that was a nitrate stuff; we used it as a "food" for the yeast once we pulled it from the grape/yeast residue. I'll try and find it and let you know what it was/is.

Wine /beer yeast is much better at converting sugars and can stand a greater swing of batches so it might be a better way to go if you are looking for something very stable.

I am jealous of the 55gal drum, do you have a couple available? There are a few things you can try with each one.

If the lining can withstand temps around 50C then this can save you almost an entire set of steps and you would only have the freezing or second run to go. Do the lids lock in place?

I am not too sure lugging the mash around in the truck's tanks would work too well. The mash needs a stable area for the yeast to work it's magic and all that sloshing around and extra heat would probably kill it off.

I think if some is using a fuel powered genny then making use of the exhaust would be okay to use for the cooking and heat stabilizing of the fermenting side, but those fumes tend to be deadly and it may be more costly than the end worth, but still ( no pun intended) doable.

I make use of the small Solar charged UPS with extra batteries and DC wherever I can route.

Someone in a different thread turned me on to some cheap thermistors and as soon as I can find an extra minute I am going to those a try for an automatic switch for the internal heater.

  One of my next trials will be to use a container that has a faucet on it. I have found that the hardest part is removing the left over stuff in the 5gal bucket, this is because once I open the top and get everything ready work the next batch I have to drain the 32quart one. WI want to be able to open a faucet and drain the first run off so that I don't get anything such as extra water down into the run. With a faucet about ¼" up to maybe 1" from the bottom I should be able to drain off first. I can also use this setup for the vehicles stuff to go directly to the galvanizer, and then off either to a container with Zeolite or the freezer if the hydrometer show that it's below where I need it to be before adding to the tank.

Hope some of this helps

Bruce S

[phil b]

From your posts, your freezing the mash to extract the alky? Is that better than distillation?

[nothing to lose]

"Note to Admin: If you wish for me to not put this up I will stop ASAP. Don't want anyone to get into trouble, especially me and this great forum."

I agree with you on that, but I think there's nothing to get into trouble about just posting how to make the feul and equipment and such. More people with good information the better, and it is legal to do when we pay the Feds for the permits and jump the correct hoops. I think the information itself is not illegal nor questionable, heck you can even buy books "How to run a Still" but it's the actuall use of the still that is legal or not, not the books.

That being said, gasolene just went up here in the last few weeks about 20cents a gallon again. Probably still cheap compared to other parts of the country at $2.27 but I am fed up with it big time. I'll be jumping through the Feds hoops soon and be making my own feul legally. I need too much OFF ROAD gas for various uses, down with OPEC and road taxes for mowing my yard, generators, and 4 wheeling!!

Plus I may get into auto racing also for next year. Why pay $5 gal at the track if I can brew my own for less than $2

Could this be considered a "Fashion Statement", "Powered by Homebrew" on the side of my racer, and reserve a campsite on the highway side so people are sure to see the wind gennie flying over my camper race weekends

Well I better get back on track again I geuss.

[nothing to lose]

I beleave freezing removes more water and provides a higher proof than heating does. But freezing is probably more costly except in winter

That is something I will try if the temps drop below freezing for awhile and I have a batch ready, just sit it outside and when frozen drain off anything not frozen

[nothing to lose]

E-mail me at nothingtolose175 over there at yahoo.com

I type it funny to screw up spammers mail harvesters.

I'll try to get you fixed up with some barrels if you want. Should be somewhere near you to get them I would think, but maybe not. I could drive up a few sometime if you want and look over your setup while there maybe.

You want Plastic or Steel

Hmm, now why does that sound familar?

 Oh ya, plastic or paper? Down with OPEC, and trees are renewable, paper except for leaky meat packages please

Removable lid steel barrels have a rubber type seal and a ring that fit around the lid and barrel and a bolt to tighten it to lock and seal it. Plastic ones are solid barrels, no lids, just screw caps.

"I am not too sure lugging the mash around in the truck's tanks would work too well. The mash needs a stable area for the yeast to work it's magic and all that sloshing around and extra heat would probably kill it off.

I think if some is using a fuel powered genny then making use of the exhaust would be okay to use for the cooking and heat stabilizing of the fermenting side, but those fumes tend to be deadly and it may be more costly than the end worth, but still ( no pun intended) doable."

I may have typed that up wrong. I didn't mean the mash itself for fermenting. Once it has fermented, and is ready to be heated to cook off the feul to a condenser. Do the cooking in the truck with the waste heat from the engine as I drive perhaps. My thought at this time (subject to change) is if the process requires about 190F-200F temps to cook off the feul, hauling maybe 20gal ready for cooking in an old hot water tank and heating that tank with either engine coolant or exhaust heat could do the cooking. Most cases I geuss that would not be that useful perhaps, but say if I wanted to trailer a car to Ohio or back. I would need my truck to pull the trailer with the car on it. So now if I toss a fermented 55gal barrel of mash in the truck for later use, put some in the heated tanks, take off driving, I would be making some feul as I go. 800 miles each way is a long way and alot of gas and heat. Now often when I get there I stay for a few weeks. Well dropping out a barrel and filling it with sugar and such is no problem, but I know I'll get alot of crap if I set up a still in the yard!!

 If the still is built into the truck, I got feul while there. Alot more than I can haul from home already made, since I can make it as needed for however long I am there.

 I can think of several other uses like that where it might be useful if it works well enough. Course I think I would keep the permit in the truck too

[Bruce S]

Phil;

   Actually I do a first run of distilling by using a submersable fish tank heater lowered into the mash, and then put it in the freezer to seperate the water from the higher proof stuff. If we skip this part,the first run is very acceptabele but only in the 150 proof range.

 I would love to get my hands on one of those specific gravity meters we had in the Army, they would tell me the exact proofage.

Sorry if it's a bit misleading I need to get the rest of the pics up here as well.

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

Now I understand where you're going with this.

Can be a doable thing. Might be a bit heavy, but no heavier than say extra fuel. Hummm. Here's my take; tell me if I'm going in the wrong direction of your thought process.

  Route the exhuast gases or even say a line that is part of the heating/cooling sytem, not to use for anything but heat extraction, run this to a container, either in or around the container. This brings the mash up to reaction temps. thus providing you with additional distance while thumbing one to the oil barrons, well almost anyway.

I'd love to have a couple of those barrels , the yard police won't have it. I get a call or letter from the city if I leave a trash can setting on my patio too long.

Fuel here has gone to $2.38/gal yet our coworkers from Brussels tells us to quit crying and come pay what they do. Me, I tell them what I do and ooooh are they ready to give it a try.

I ready for that get together. I'll bet we can come up with some pretty good NON_OPEC'D ideas.

On the notes to the Admin: I'm just wanting to make sure no one here gets offended by having something like this up on this forum, I've been excluded from forums at the local library before just by making comments on how easy and quickly someone could start doing there own fuel.

This is too good a knowledge base to have anyone getting seriously mad. We all have a go at each other but we get over it pretty quick no harm no foul.

If any of this stuff I put up here helps even just one more person lower their needs for petroleum based fuels then mores the better.

Cheers!

[Bruce S]

Here's yet another pic.

Note the two holes.

1. Large has a large rubber cork to cover it. The cork is split so that the temp gauge and wires for the heater can be run out of the container.
   
2. Smaller hole is for the "J" tube. Cheap ones work just as good as the more expensive ones that are available for wine makers.
   
   

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

All;

   I make use of the freeze method after the first run as I already have room in my freezer, therefore not using any extra energy, and it's low maintence. I don't need to watch and make sure it doesn't boil dry or over heat causing steam to mix with the fuel.

Hope this helps a little more.

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

NTL;

  Just sort of had an Epiphany. If we use the fuel to power an emergency gen then this would indeed be "Home brewed Electricity":-)))

Bruce S

[halfcrazy]

when you do a batch in that container what do you get after cooking the mash for quantity then what do you have after freezing? trying to get a hold onlosses

[nothing to lose]

The possabilities are about endless perhaps. Costs and wastes being overcome problems of course.

For instance, perhaps an electric vehicle hybrid. Electric motor to wheels to drive, generator for extended trips beyond normal range. Generator of course could run constant RPM for max effeceincy of the feul used. It could run anytime even while parked since it's only charging batteries not running the vehicle, so it could be small.

Heat from generator used to distill feul to run it.

Now thinking about the trip to Ohio example, a few friends here and there and a couple barrels of fermented mash for pit stops. I am thinking also as long as it does not sour, mash should be easy and safer to store than actaul feul ready to use.

Another similar idea would be boats. Larger types of course like a houseboat. Spend a few weeks or months at sea. Carry 500lbs sugar to feul those Alantic crossings as you go

[benjamindees]

The problem with freeze distillation is that, when you remove the block of water, you're also removing a percentage of your end-product.  The amount lost is proportional to the amount of alcohol in solution.

With a column still, only the most pure effluent makes it all the way to the top and out the spigot.  With freezing, there is no similar method to prevent a percentage of the alcohol from getting frozen along with the water you're trying to remove.  

So, to most economically use the freeze method, you should do it on the first run, when the wort is mostly water.  Either Google or possibly Wikipedia has more info.

Of course, if you have lots of time and no energy costs, you could do several freeze/thaw cycles and probably salvage some of the alcohol that would otherwise be lost.

[benjamindees]

as I already have room in my freezer, therefore not using any extra energy

Surely you're joking.  You still pay for the energy required to freeze things put in your freezer whether there's room or not.

[benjamindees]

Dean Kamen had an engine like this a few years back.  It was sitting in the background in his shop during a news interview.  He called it an engine that "refines its own fuel".

It's an interesting method, but I haven't seen proof it would save much energy in the long run.  Even the most sturdy yeast never get to 20% without dying.  So, at best, you're carrying around a fuel with 1/5 the energy density of ethanol.  

The question becomes:  do you waste more energy carrying that extra water around than it would take to just use a stationary still?  That's a difficult question to answer, because it only depends on terrain and driving habits.

But people are convinced that lithium-ion battery-powered cars are viable, with at most 3% of the energy density of ethanol.  And some even tout lead-acid, with less than 1%.  

So I suppose if you live in Kansas, or only drive on highways, then by all means, build us one  Or if you can stand a car with 1/5 the normal range, then you're already most of the way there.

[Bruce S]

no joke;

  We clear out the chest freezer every 3 months, but we do not turn it off. A running unit uses less power than one that needs to bring it's inside temp back down.

I hate not using the space so....

BTW: I did fail to mention that it runs off a discarded Minuteman 200va UPS that has it's batteries charged by a small PV unit. Cool little unit, uses little 12vdc 5Ah batteries that happen to have the battery connections on the side. I drilled to holes, put on some DC power connectors and merely added batteries. I can attach them without ever turning the unit off or on.

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

I like where you went with the battery thing.

At our offcie we have an electric assist trike ( twike as it's called in blogs) they come standard with SLAs for the 36vdc it takes. I did, and I thing I put the information in some questions a while back, and proof of concept to the company that I could build a better battery set using discarded NiCds. Weight/energy/lifecycle: NiCds wins hands down. Once I got around the problem of not blowing them up by accidently over charging them , the bike still runs down the roads and has even made it in the News papers here in St.L.

SLAs=3 12vdc@17Ah weighs 52lbs = 36vdc@17Ah :can't handle deep cycle too many times

NiCds=320 1.2vdc 1.3Ah weighs 29lbs = 40vdc@26Ahs : works better using 85% deep cycle all the time.

Guess who won?

Bruce S.

[Bruce S]

Absolutley perfect discreption.

However I, because I live in the city, can't have a 3" or 6" column still sitting in my back yard and it's too costly to try and run a small stove top one, at the moment.

I 've found that using the submerseable heater on the first run will give me the end results I need for fuel, the by product ( non-frozen stuff in the freezer) is what I tap off from for entertainment purposes and such.

When I pour off the non-frozen stuff, the left-overs takes little time becoming unfrozen, these I keep and add together, refreeze over and over.

The dead stuff left the bottom could probably be reused and may even be able to reactivate it , but I use it in my garden area to revitalize the soil for the next summer's growing. Roses love this stuff.

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

Last run we made (The one that caused me to burn up and crack my heater).

20quarts of mash in.

~1 quart of dead slew

4. quarts 200p
   
12. quarts 150p
    
    

I know it doesn't add up to 20 quarts total, but this is what we got.

Bruce S

[halfcrazy]

so what proof does it take for fuel? am i correct that 150p is good for fuel? so you get 16 qts out of 20 qts so you are averaging 80% seems good to me forgive all the questions but this is very interesting and i could see making fuel for the mower and gennerator etc

[Bruce S]

No worries about all the questions, 2nd best way to learn.

I may take sometime to answer them tho , seems work wants to get in the way :-)

For me the 150p is good for fuel.

This discussion started in several different places so let me say that I have an old F100 '81 single carb that I mix this with at a rate of 60/40 A/g. Also when I started this I bought the better fuel filters. The first thing the alky will begin doing is cleaning out any sludge and deposits on the walls of your fuel tank and fuel lines, then it will clean out the walls of your carb ( if using a carb) and then it will be working perfect. Knowing this I made sure I had plenty of both pourse rock and paper type fuel filters on hand for the first few tanks.

Now it's all a matter of regular maintence, moslty eye-ball are the filters getting dirty type maintence.

Yes, works perfect in Briggs type mowers, I use a battery powered electric 100' x 50' yard only.

Is also good for cleaning out water from winter left overs.

My main reason for using the 60/40 mix is many fold, the main being that alky has a bad habit of cleaning cylinder walls too well. Another is cold weather.

I keep the gas at this level to keep everything thing lubed, and ease of cold weather starting.

All tho if gas keeps its upward climb that may change.

Also to stay legal I run my fuel stuff through a galvanized pipe.

Bruce S

[halfcrazy]

very helpful bruce but why the galvy pipe?

[nothing to lose]

"very helpful bruce but why the galvy pipe?"

I can answer that one,

Only reason is FEDS would rather you kill or blind someone if they accidently drink a bit, Hmmn, perhaps say siphoning your tank by mouth?  Galvanized pipe turns the home brew to poison which will cause blindness or death. There is NO other reason!!!

[nothing to lose]

Dang, that is much better than I was thinking it would be, even if the figures don't add up right.

You got 4 quarts 200p and 12 quarts 150p, that's 16 quarts or better for feul right, from 20 quarts? So, 5 gallon mash equaled 4 gallon feul? That would only leave 1 gal  of dead slew to be hauled around if using my thoughts on refining while driving with exhaust heat or coolent. Not that bad. And if you had only 1 quart, not 1 gal, of dead slew that's even less to haul.

 I do wonder what happened to that extra 3 quarts though. Could that be the CO2 that was lost to the plants durring fermentation?? I supposed it might be? I geuss the CO2 that escaped had to come from somewhere even if the yeast did make it.

When your mash has fermented, does it look 3 quarts low before you refine it? Have you ever checked that?

Anyway, I geuss if you get 4 gal feul from 5 gal mash, then I should expect around 40gal feul from 50gal mash if all holds equal. Actaully I never thought it would be anywhere near that myself, maybe 50% slew and 50% feul is what I was thinking (if even that good a ratio)

I will hopefully be able to get barrels tommorow for this. All the ones I have now are either full of stuff or I cut holes in for other uses. Been busy and money tight this week and hadn't been able to buy barrels yet. Got to get them and get started, the reason money was tight was I spent too much on gasolene this week!!

Formulas for mash mixes welcomed!!

Here's the tommorow plan (3 barrels)

 1 mash mix sugar, yeast,

 1 mash mix canned Yam's, canned cranberry sauce, other sugary stuff, yeast.

 1 mash mix Oak sawdust, sugar, yeast

Sugar and yeast I have to buy, Canned foods are free (bad), and sawdust is free and seasoned almost a year. I figure if I start all 3 batches at once I'll get an idea of how each works compared to the others.

[nothing to lose]

"My main reason for using the 60/40 mix is many fold, the main being that alky has a bad habit of cleaning cylinder walls too well. Another is cold weather.

I keep the gas at this level to keep everything thing lubed, and ease of cold weather starting.

All tho if gas keeps its upward climb that may change."

If you have a junk engine for testing, I wonder what an 80% Alcohol and 20% veggie oil would do? Maybe vary the ratio, but something I been wondering about here. Veggie oil runs like diesel right, but cleaner and better lubing. Veggie doesn't run in a gas engine because compresion is not high enough and not enough heat to combust the veggie.

So what about mixing veggie and a feul that ignites by spark? Gas or alky ignites by spark starting the mix combustion, that then creates higher compresion and heat, then veggie burns for power and lubes the cylinders also. Something I been toying with in various ways but haven't done much specific yet.

 Only thing I can say for certain is my Ford F150 still runs and I haven't seemed to hurt it any yet. I did flood it out with pure veggie oil, just got alot of white smoke from the exhaust after I started it back up on gas again. That time was the worst, I had it hot running on gas then switched to the rear tank which was empty, when the carb ran dry and the engine tried to die I added pure NEW veggie oil right into the carb. Did this several times different ways and amounts. Never could keep it running so far with straight oil, also I should add it was not preheated either. Really did not expect that to work, but starting there and experementing further.

Anyway the main reason I mention that is the thoughts on "to keep everything thing lubed". If the alky and veggie will mix and not seperate back out while sitting, perhaps that's an idea to try? If it does mix well, then I would try testing lower temps and see if there is any seperations or gelling there also since veggie may thicken or gel in winter. But then again so does desiel and what is it that they mix with that to winterize it to prevent gelling in semi's and such? I mean the additives sold in stores and truckstops, not the actaul winterized feuls.

[benjamindees]

Formulas for mash mixes welcomed!!

Acid helps.  Lemons are edible.  Others may not be

[Bruce S]

OOOOOO

I'll bet you really smoked the trees when you fired up the gasoline engine with veggie oil in it:-)))

I don't think the veggie oil route is a good one just thinking about this without any real testing.

Straight veggie oil has a low vescosity point and don't think it would ever make it down to the rings. More than likely it'll burn first.

That winterizer for diesel is petroleum and ether based stuff. Carefull with this stuff, one it's highly flamable and two you can get real sick if you inhale the fumes. Guys in the motor pool used to get real loopy when working with the ether packets.

I haven't tried mixing the fuel with veggie oil yet, but you would have to use the higher proof stuff otherwise the water still in the 150p would seperate from the oil kinda like a Itialian salad dressing does, I would think.

Cheers

Bruce S

[Bruce S]

YEP. Only reason I use the galvy pipe. Oh and I have no desire to go to jail...ever.

Bruce S

The reaction between the zinc on the pipes &  alky causes the akly to become poison, only real route the FEDs will accept if you're going the legal route and getting the proper paper work and such.

I did and would encourge anyone who plans on trying any of this on any kind of scale beyond the first experiment. The ATF is real busy with moroons out there making meth and such but won't bat an eye to put someone in jail for making illegal 'shine.

Bruce S

[nothing to lose]

"I'll bet you really smoked the trees when you fired up the gasoline engine with veggie oil in it:-)))"

Actually it was not all that bad, got alot of smoke but I seen worse from bad gas or shot rings in old engines that had been sitting awhile.

"the water still in the 150p would seperate from the oil kinda like a Itialian salad dressing does, I would think."

I'm not sure about that myself. Perhaps if you have some handy you could test that with a small mix in a soda bottle or something. I kinda think (geussing) the alcohol will absorb water, then hold it. Perhaps if water were in the oil it would absorb the water out of the oil even? Provided it even mixes into the oil well.

Although water and oil do seperate like salad dressing, used restaraunt veggie oils have a water content. Most water will seperate out on it's own, but you read people's ideas about ways to remove it also like vacume, heat, chemicals etc...

[Bruce S]

I too, was real surprised by the amount of return. Had to do several runs just to prove what I was seeing.

Couple things on the mash side.

How much are you going to try? 5 gals or more? And where did you find that much free bad canned fruits?

Mix (1) try going with 1 1/2 lbs CHEAP sugar to every gal H2O.

mix (2) keep the sugars and fluids,

NOTE: Get yourself to a soiless gardening place that also sells wine making stuff; tell them you need a device that can measure the sugar content of wine and beer. Get a good one that  you'll have no problems reading, this extra money spent will workout in the long haul. This will help you thin down the syurps to a level of no more than 26%. Any higher and you're likely to burn up the yeast ( due to it having so much sugar and too high an alky content too soon; not too much lower than 20% otherwise your runs will take a lot longer the work and you run the risk of running out of food for the yeast.

If you're geting the bad foods for free go with this one first. FREE is good!! lots of sugar in the syurp. and it's already cooked! just add water to bring the % down , stir real good add yeast and wait 'til it stop fermenting days later.

Also, try going with bread yeast on the first few times, it's easy to work with. I use one packet per 20quarts.

If you're going to try using saw dust you'll need a lot of time and something to help the carbohydrates break out of the dust, I'll try and remember to look up the old "Calgon" stuff we used in S.Arabia. It was the best for giving the yeast something to eat while working on the corn. This part is the main reason I focused in on how to get around making corn-based alky.

You might want to make use of the saw dust for the cooking if you go with granular sugar. Being that it's seasoned and OAK it'll burn clean and hot without the need for a lot.

Have not really paid attention to were the lost quarts go, too many other things to worry about. I'm getting ready to fire up a new batch, went to wally-mart and picked up a new heater so I'll go step by step on here if you wish. I'm going for a small batch this first time with the new heater need to see how it holds up. This one is a cheaper one made by a different company ( I have been using one made by Eden and they are simply THE best, just a little pricy and all these costs figure into the per-gal costs).

 Bruce S

[nothing to lose]

Oh ya another thought on that water perhaps. Gas and water seperate also and won't mix, but alcohol is a water remover/absorber and does mix with the gas. Stuff like Heet and others to prevent feul line freeze up, though it may be methanol instead of Ethel or Rum