Author Topic: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......  (Read 4004 times)

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Norm

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Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« on: September 04, 2005, 06:35:40 PM »
 I've discovered that 154 of my steps is .1 of a mile (154 x 3.43 =528.22)...so it's .2 mile tothe end of our street .....at 30mpg on our car and gas at $3.19 ....figured I saved about a $1

so far.


  It is 160 steps from one end of Walmart to the other....so by the tine you walk around a couple of stores you can easily put in 2 or 3 miles.

   Thoughts of having some kind of 3 wheeled

pedal 10 speed scooter come to mind walking is

okay for some....but in my condition...I need

the exercise but I can't stay on my feet very

long but would feel silly carrying a folding

chair around...

  Well out to the shop and daydream some

Typing with one hand is really a clunker.

  Getting a bunch of ideas have to make some

scale models to show you guys.

              have fun!

               ( :>) Norm.


i

 

« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 06:35:40 PM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2005, 07:18:21 PM »
I just went to Pittsburg and back.

At 60mph, instead of 72mph.

It took a LOT less gas than usual!

But the 'extra time'?  Took less time today than usual.


If we'd just slow down some...

G-

« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 07:18:21 PM by ghurd »
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Norm

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2005, 09:30:31 PM »
Right on G ! There are some that get cars that

would get twice the mileage with their newer car

but then travel twice as far because of it.

  If a car could be made as efficient as our bodies

....you'd get a 1000 miles to the gallon.

   The slower you go you'll see things that you

never noticed before...it's a whole new wonderful

world all around us if we'd only slow down and

look !

                    ( :>) Norm.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2005, 09:30:31 PM by Norm »

Norm

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2005, 04:58:07 AM »
As long as we're dreaming...a couple of links

http://www.rqriley.com/urba-e.html

http://www.rqriley.com/u-trike.htm

http://www.rqriley.com/download.html

                    ( :>) Norm
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 04:58:07 AM by Norm »

mikey ny

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 06:05:00 PM »
     I used to like to drive fast to get to where i am going to make money ( work) but My diesl truck gets the best milage at about 45 to 50 mph. I actually make more money going slower. Pretty pathetic.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 06:05:00 PM by mikey ny »

ghurd

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2005, 08:23:00 PM »
I think most people in the world would make more money per hour if they would drive a little slower!!!


Say someone drives an hour to work. Maybe 40 miles. Maybe 30 of that highway.

If they can actually maintain an average of 55MPH on the highway, that's pretty good. Believe me, I used to drive very fast, for a long ways, very often.

If they "get" 20MPG, thats 4 gallons per day, going like heck.

Going 'slow' they get 25mpg, they use a tad over 3 gallons per day.

So they save a little under a gallon a day. That's what? About $3 right here, right now. (Hurricane Katrinia's aftermath and all)

My bet is, in real, tested, time, that saves about 2 minutes each way, or 4 minutes total.


That's like $45 per hour!!!  All just in gas!!!

Figure savings in brake jobs, worn out cars, etc...

Jeeze! Who makes that much?


That guy who cuts me off going 85mph, to slam on his brakes, to step on the gas to 85, to slam on his brakes...  That BS just PO's me!  When I need to slam MY brakes, he is just wasting MY gas!  What, He needs to use a liter of gas to get to the toll booth right in front of me?  Dang. At least I had the toll figured and with exact change. He's using a $20 bill!


Not to mention the more he uses, the more I pay for mine.

(supply and demand)


G-

« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 08:23:00 PM by ghurd »
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monte350c

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2005, 08:50:32 PM »
Hi Norm,


Been away for a while - I can see I have a lot of reading to do!


I couldn't resist commenting on this one. We all know the power in the wind goes up as the cube of the windspeed.


The power it takes to drive a car or truck goes up by a cube of the speed also - since the main thing holding the car back at higher speeds is.... the wind!


I've knocked 10-15 mph off my speeds, and try to drive like there's an egg underfoot. It really does make a difference, saves fuel and $$. Good deal.


Ted.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 08:50:32 PM by monte350c »

Norm

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2005, 10:05:17 PM »
The power it takes to drive a car or truck goes up by a cube of the speed also - since the main thing holding the car back at higher speeds is.... the wind!


Also...have you ever noticed ...some cars aren't

really aerodynamically designed.....


When's the last time some have had a tune-up?


During WWII they had gas rationing...on the back

of the sticker asked the question....is this trip

really necessary?

You can save something like $6 by not making that

60 mile round trip and carving a blade or something instead.

                   ( :>) Norm

« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 10:05:17 PM by Norm »

bob g

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 10:09:41 PM »
i have driven close to 700,000 miles over the last 20 years on I-5 seattle area, my observation is as follows.


my service trucks have been over weight and under powered up till this last one, so i stay in the right hand lane from seattle to tacoma nearly all the time, never change lanes if i can help it.


i see people changing lanes back and forth dozens of times during a typical 30 mile trip,


during which time i stay in with the big trucks, pokin along, and i see the same folks pass and be passed like the tortoise and the hare,


get to tacoma, and rarely are they more than 100 yards from me, one way or the other.


they have made dozens of lane changes, jack rabbit starts and panic stops, while i just plug along keeping the same pace.


now i drive a lighter truck with a 454, and i find i get just as good of mileage as the heavier trucks i used to run, and i one case actually more. but i still drive in the same right hand land, just a pokin along.


gives ya time to think and alot less stress


bob g

« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 10:09:41 PM by bob g »
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pyrocasto

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2005, 01:41:39 AM »
All my friends are that way, weaving in and out to save a minute or 2. I've slowed down in my truck now, and I can tell a major difference. I go 60 in a 60 now, instead of the good ole 70-75... :-)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 01:41:39 AM by pyrocasto »

Norm

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2005, 07:28:22 AM »
Tailgating: Whatever happened to the old rule of thumb, 1 carlength for every 10mph?

 I've seen cars going 50 mph in a 35mph zone

about a carlength or so behind ....the ^%&$^%^

guy won't get over so he tries to bully him into getting over....if you're a little ways behind

you will notice the brake light of the tailgater

come on quite frequently....wasted gas...wasted

money

                 ( :>) Norm

         
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 07:28:22 AM by Norm »

scottsAI

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2005, 08:39:31 AM »
Sorry ghurd, I just could not let this bad math go!


The distance in question is the highway of 30 miles, the first 10mi are not high speed highway, the gas used on the highway is 1.5gallons Vs 30/25 = 1.2 gallons, or saving you 0.3 gallons. With gas at $3/g * 0.3 g = $0.90  net cost savings. Round trip for the day is 2x or $1.80 savings for the day.


With a speed of 55 mph vs 80mph, the delta is 25mph.

30 miles at 80 will take you 30/80 hours or 22.5 minutes. Vs 30/55 or 32.7 minutes.

Time savings is 10 minutes. Round trip is 20 minutes.

I will gladly pay $2 for 20 minutes each day. My sleep is very valuable to me.

When the trafice is not bad I will push the speed limit as fast as I can.


I think min wage is around $5.40/hr the cost savings rate. I earn MUCH more than $6/hr, mater of fact my high shool kids earn $10/hr.


So, the cost save per unit of time is very low. Not the $45/hr :-)


Now the issue of driving fast in dense traffic, not getting to the destination any sooner is a completely different issue. That is just dumb, your not going 80mph except for a few seconds. You are waisting gas and PO many people.

Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 08:39:31 AM by scottsAI »

Bruce S

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2005, 08:43:16 AM »
Hey Norm;

   Hope all is well.

I hear ya on the distance thing. I learned awhile back that byusing a 3 second rule 1/2 the accidents would not occur. It doesn't matter how fast you're going stay 3 second behind the other guy and you'll have time to react.

I however like to drink my morning coffee. So, I'm like Bob g , stay in the right lane drive 55 in a 60 watch those speeders see me in their rearview mirrors as I catch up to them at the light, still drinking my coffee.

I've seen this link before, it's a good one. Wish I had the garage to build one of those 3 wheelers using electric instead of gas.


Take care

Bruce S

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 08:43:16 AM by Bruce S »
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ghurd

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 09:16:27 AM »
Yes... But the math doesn't work that way in real life.


My wife works maybe 17 miles from home, with about 14 of that highway.

Driving as fast as she can possibly go, or only 65mph, it is a differance of about a minute each way. Sometimes it goes the other way (toll boths and traffic).

That's during 'rush hour' both times, probably like most people.


But try it, time it twice each, fast as you can safe, and at 65mph.

I think you'll be suprised.


The economy is not so good around here unless you work for GM. I know people with degrees waiting tables because the pay is better, and others working in their field for $8/hr.

A friend of mine had 3 4-year degrees, kept his job cooking at Denny's until the day he died at 42 because it payed better than anything he could find.

The same Denny's had 4 certified teachers working there at the same time! 2 servers, and 2 minimum wage dishwashers.

G-

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 09:16:27 AM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2005, 09:21:55 AM »
Bob G knows what I'm talking about, see below.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 09:21:55 AM by ghurd »
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Norm

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Speakin' of math
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2005, 03:24:47 PM »
  It was 16 miles to work, when I started off for

work and by the time I picked my 3 riders up and

got to work took about 25 or 30 minutes so

anyone of them could have got at least 20

minutes of sleep each way. I used about 3gallons

of gas round trip at about 42cents a gallon.

(back in '75??)

 The riders could talk, sleep,smoke,drink coffee

all for just $1 each per day.

 They made $15 an hour and would you believe it..occasionally..." Hey Norm....I can't pay you this week....I'll catch you next pay.."

....and maybe in the same breath "How much to fix my lawnmower?"

  Sometimes 'ya just gotta throw math out the

window....


  Not trying to offend you Scott....

We all have different life styles...you probably

wouldn't like mine...no smokin'...no drinkin'

etc. and 5hrs. sleep a day is about my average.

                  ( :>) Norm

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 03:24:47 PM by Norm »

scottsAI

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2005, 05:23:59 PM »
The math does work.


  1. *60/55 = 15.3 minutes.
  2. *60/65 = 12.93minutes.
  3. *60/80 = 10.5 minutes.


The problem is due to other traffic, doing 80 is not usually achievable.

Watching the clock, the minutes on a digital has almost 1 minute of uncertainty for the start and ending time measurements, making precise comparisons difficult.

Looking at the above, should be two minutes difference 65 vs 55, I expect it not to be noticeable on a digital clock.


I do most of my traveling outside of rush hours, 50miles out of Detroit area

With traffic, I will go with the flow, 55, 65, 75 etc.

I do find it interesting I get passed by more women them men.

20 years ago was the other way.

Now, I do not get passed often. I do not get tickets, I'm careful:-) once a decade.


My son was going to take a job for $6.75/hr. I told him to keep looking.

Few days later he got one for $10.

I once ran into a PHD pumping gas. Guy was burnt out.


At $3/g the need for gas will dwindle. My son just started College. He was going to drive, but fixed his bike. Plans to park the car for quite a while. I know many who have started car pooling, doing anything to reduce their need for gas. This happened in the 70's and will happen again. When the price gets too high, many people just stop using it.


I'm not, I will use it at what ever the price. I do not pay for it:-)

Have fun.

Scott.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 05:23:59 PM by scottsAI »

scottsAI

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Re: Speakin' of math
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2005, 09:34:41 PM »
Hello Norm,

I like your posts.

I like math, I use it to figure out most things.

When math and reality don't match then something is wrong.

Some times it's the math, sometimes reality:-)


No smoking. I do drink some. Like when I go to Ireland.

I sleep 5hr. Life is too short to waste it sleeping.


I think out of the box, have thoughts like many here.

But, even here I'm still outside.

Most information about energy shortage is BS. Both sides. Middle road is best.


A little acknowledge makes people dangerous.

A good point is the cubic function of the air resistance.

At 80mph 20mpg, reduced to 55mph the change should be greater than 25mpg right?

Have fun.

Scott.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 09:34:41 PM by scottsAI »

Peppyy

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2005, 07:34:23 AM »
Great topic! I have a few gasoline issues that I can only resolve with certain mesures.


I am in a rural setting. By my choice of vehicle I have opted for fuel economy, and cheep car payments. Bought a chevy aveo and it is a decent little car. One f those I don't feel guilty about driving by myself to go to work.


Work: Work is anywhere and everywhere since I am known as the computer guy. I have learned that I can easily spend 2 hours on the phone with a client to save gas. Get the computer working and make the client happy but the problem is that nobody wants to pay for a phone call so there goes the "Job" part of the job. I do have one client that does pay for this service and I reduce the rate by the amount of travel time and the fuel I would have to use. Perhaps I need a 900 number for that .


Children, school and work.


My son is in 8th grade and his school is over a 1/2 hour drive away, on the highway. I have let it be known from the start that there is a school bus and even though he is the first one on at 6:45 am it is there to take him to and from school. I will travel to and from school as needed for conferences, plays, events etc. but I will not allow him to miss the bus. It has been working so far.


My daughter has gotten a job in the city working as a chashier at a major chain store 5 days a week. She is 19 and needs to get a licence. I am however currently making 2 trips a day to the city. One to get her to work and one to get her home. She made a great first step last wee3k and we found a nice little geo prism that really worries me since the price was too good and I can't find anything wrong with the car. I suspect that the little car wil get nearly as good mileage as my aveo and this should cut our fuel consumption nearly in half.


The last time I bought gas (Friday) the best price I could find was $3.59/gal. It has since begun to drop slightly.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 07:34:23 AM by Peppyy »

Norm

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Re: Speakin' of math
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2005, 12:31:30 PM »
A good point is the cubic function of the air resistance.

At 80mph 20mpg, reduced to 55mph the change should be greater than 25mpg right?


 The math works here ...I would think...I'm

not good at math...but there are other factors

that are involved, the engine may be designed

to be easy on gas thru a wider range of speed

than another.

 Didn't understand the part about not paying for the gas...don't really care to go there....

                   ( :>) Norm,

« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 12:31:30 PM by Norm »

nothing to lose

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2005, 11:14:54 PM »
Well here gas has been holding at $2.99 and 9/10 so shall we say an even $3.00 a gallon? One station was $3.07 for awhile but dropped back to match the other 3 now.


How stupid can people really be though?? We have a station that went out of business here and there sign still has $1.37 posted :)

Ya, you geussed, I see people whip into theat station every so often to try and get gas and wonder why the pump won't turn on. They looked confused then eventaully see the store is dark and empty. Well DUH, $1.37 do you expect them to stay in business long in todays market anyway at that price??  Happened alot more often when gas was only $2.20 but I have seen it at $3.00 a few times too.


I drive my kid to school because there is no bus near the house, the closest stop is out of the way so school is just as close. Just the dirt road itself is a 5 mile drive, then I get to pavement and maybe another 20 miles?? This in a F250 pickup and not much mpg there I think.


As for the speed thing, many people are stupid and tailgate to save gas themselfs. In auto racing it's ok and part of the game, but on open roads it's dangerous and stupid.

They get into your air stream just right and your car kinda sucks them along and has broken the main air resistance for them also. This is reffered to as "drafting". In auto racing it saves the second car gas and the added drag on the lead car causes it to use more gas as it sucks along the second car and has to break it's own air also. So in the last few laps it could make a difference rather a pit stop is needed for feul for the lead or second car and make or break a really close race. I get people doing that to me often. You can tell at times because they are 5' from my rear bumper at 60mph and when I slow to 55 or 50 mph they don't pass even though it's a clear wide open road, then when I speed up to 60mph again so do they still at 5' from the bumper. That is when I am glad I have realy good brakes :)

I often give them a chance to pass several times and when they won't they end up crapping themselfs later. Funny how people will back off after the brakes smoke the tires quick. Now actually I am not being mean when I do that, they are endangering my saftey and life tailgaiting me like that not to mention the price of extra gas it causes me to use. At anytime around here a Deer can run out in front of you from nowhere. So far I never hit a deer myself but I have skidded to a stop 2' from them when they jump out of weeds and just stay there. NOT a good time for a tailgaiter and you never know when it will happen.


I see the idiots all the time too that pass on blind hills and blind turns, doing 65 in a 60 and they still gotta pass when it's not safe? Saw a couple hit the ditch to avoid a head-on collision too. Most of the time they get where they are going, about 30 seconds before I get there. Whoopdee doo!


Slower speeds may save gas but it's a trade off at times what is better. Hmmm 800 mile trip, do I want to spend more on gas and drive straight through non stop except for gas at 65-70, or do I want to save gas and drive 55 and have to spend money on a hotel and food on the trip? I do drive it straight through normally at the faster speeds easily, but when I drive it at 55 I do get tired and either get a hotel somewhere or nap an hour or two in the car somewhere.

 On a 10 mile trip does it really matter? Most of the time is getting in and out of the car and walking to and from a building anyway.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 11:14:54 PM by nothing to lose »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Speakin' of math
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2005, 07:41:14 PM »
A good point is the cubic function of the air resistance.

At 80mph 20mpg, reduced to 55mph the change should be greater than 25mpg right?


There's also a big square term.  And another for running the engine at all (the gas you spend idling).  Remember:  It's not all wind.  There's rolling friction in the tires, fluid friction in the oil, etc.  Then there's the efficiency vs. RPM curve of the engine.


Net result is that, up to about 45 MPH, your fuel consumption is essentially one constant times the distance plus another times the time the engine is on, regardless of average speed.  Above 45 you need to start adding in a speed penalty, but that starts out slow.  (Or at least that's what it was like a few decades ago.  Since then cars have improved a lot, especially with respect to "slippery" shapes.  Supercomputers are your friends.)


That's why the "energy speed limit" back in the oil embargo days was 55 MPH:  Some bureaucrat got the bright idea to cap things near the peak mileage and let the sheep spend more of their life on the road.  B-b


Note, by the way, that it's not jackrabbit starts that cost you in mileage (though that's when you burn the gas).  It's stopping on a dime - and throwing away all that power as heat in the brakes.  Accellerating with deliberation runs the engine closer to its peak efficiency, which is good.  Do that, and coast down near the stop, and you should get where you're going sooner without extra fillups.


What drives me buggy is the CAFE standards:  They killed the station wagon - after which city people with kids and shopping to do started buying SUVs (which are "trucks" for CAFE) and burning still more fuel.  Then the manufacturers started compromizing the SUV designs by optimizing for city driving comfort, turning them into "mall terrain vehicles" that can't take a back road without losing parts.  Now the bureaucrats are moving to apply car fuel efficiency rules to SUVs, which will finish wrecking the SUV for its intended purposes and move everybody up another size to "real trucks", with still lower efficiency.  B-(

« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 07:41:14 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Norm

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2005, 05:32:22 AM »
  We still go shopping every day, but since I'm

not driving we dont go as far. We used to average

100 miles per day,down to about 30...where I used

to drive 55 or so  she drives 45......

                ( :>) Norm  
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 05:32:22 AM by Norm »

Norm

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2005, 12:42:44 PM »
As for the speed thing, many people are stupid and tailgate to save gas themselfs.

       I can think of all kind of ways to shake

them up...but you don't know what kind of nut

you might be dealing with so I'll just keep my mouth shut.....but for those that have to put up

with people like that

 I highly recommend that song

....'Some Beach, Somewhere'....it's one of my

favorites!

                     ( :>) Norm
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 12:42:44 PM by Norm »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Hi Ho.....Savin' Gas as I go......
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 06:10:42 PM »
As for the speed thing, many people are stupid and tailgate to save gas themselfs.


Wash your windows.  A lot.  It's amazing how quickly mine get dirty when I'm being tailgated.  B-)

« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 06:10:42 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Norm

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tailgating
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2005, 06:20:03 AM »
 Amazing airheads...tailgating when the pavement

is wet...probably don't understand why they're the only ones using their wipers...sometimes

they figure it out...then they drop way back!

                   ( :>) Norm
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 06:20:03 AM by Norm »

scottsAI

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Re: Speakin' of math
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2005, 08:28:42 PM »
Thank you Norm and Ungrounded Lightning Rod.

You demonstrate my point quite nicely for me. Things are not as simple as they seem.

People talk about an energy shortage, when we have more oil reserves then we did back in the 70's.

The two sides are too extreme. The oil is supply and demand controlled (not limited), true, only to control the price. If there is a finite amount of oil, then some day we will run out. What does it mater when? Some future generation will be without. Does it mater if we find an alternative today or tomorrow? I say use as much energy as you can afford. Let's get on with it!

Have fun,

Scott.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 08:28:42 PM by scottsAI »