premium price for energy inefficient incandescent bulbs

[willib]

why cant governments make everyone pay a premium price  for energy inefficient  incandescent bulbs ? maybe people will think twice before buying them..

thoughts ?

opinoions?

[Jon Miller]

Maybe time will allow such a set up but at the moment there is no reall advantage for any goverment to do this.  That said the goverment in the UK at least does supply 20 free CFL for free, if you know who to aske  

[whatsnext]

Yes, good idea. I want an oppressive government the continually looks over my shoulder and taxes me whenever they don't agree with my actions. BTW, incandesants are not that inefficiant in the winter as they supply heat along with the light and the world is not all black and white either.

John...

[TomW]

whatsnext;

Yeah, we all know that Gubbermint will always and inevitably know whats best for it's citizenry.

Some old fart American long ago once said something about anyone willing to give up freedom for security deserves neither. This would certainly fall under that umbrella.

Just an opinion of someone who some may consider "unpatriotic" because he is unwilling to surrender decision making to the G. The Purple Heart in the drawer tends to offset this seditious opinion, I hope.

/end rant.

T

 

[Gagster]

Why?  Don't you already have a line item for taxes on your electric bill?  Why should the tax per kwh be different depending on what kind of device consumed it?  You're asking why not put a tax directly on the bulb.  I'm saying the consumer is already paying more on the power bill so what's the point?  People are willing to pay more to use incandecats so I don't think a tax on the bulb would stop them.  If you raise the tax on the power consumption then people will naturally look to switch to CFLs as well as look for other ways to conserve electricity in the home.  I think that has an overall greater net effect on energy consumption than simply paying a one-time tax on the bulb and then using as much energy as you want.

Now, having said all that, I don't believe it's the government's job to regulate my energy consumption.  The market is already doing a fine job.  As the price of energy has gone up, my consumption has gone down.  The same goes for fuel.  People say the government should tax US fuel to the same level as the Europeans are taxed.  Bah.  Fuel is already getting expensive enough that people are looking at alternatives.  No need for the Government to get involved.

Just look at the growth of this board.  We had the post the other day announcing that we were over 5000 users, right?  From some of the newb posts I've read it looks like there are lots of people looking at conservation and RE as a response to their recent power bills.

Don't bother with the taxes.  The price of the electricity will get people over to CFLs soon enough and will do a better job of encouraging general conservation than just making the bulbs expensive.  For some anecdotal evidence that this is already taking place, just compare the CFL selection at your local (Menards || Home Depot || Lowes) to a couple years ago.

[willib]

thanks for the reply Gagster

i suppose bringing up the G word on this board is a no no..

but if people dont know that there is an alternative to incandesants why would they choose CFL's (compact flourescent lights) ?

[wooferhound]

 I have a friend that conserves so much that he practicly lives in the dark and only uses one light at a time, turning off the light behind him as he moves into another room to turn on that light. I was visiting him last night and asked him why he doesent use Compact Flourescent Bulbs? He looked at me with a glassy stare like, what are you talking about. I explained that he could get 60 watts of light from a CFL that only uses 13 watts of power. He seemed open to the idea, but I don't think that he knows for sure what I was talking about.

 I told him that I would give him a CFL bulb to try out, to see what I was talking about. Today I put a CFL in my van so I would have it for him on my next visit. But you can see that even though people want to conserve, they don't know how. So I'm donating a $2.oo bulb to him for his education.

[drdongle]

 It does my old Libertarian heart good to see so many negative responses to the suggestion of allowing the government further authority to enter our homes and tell us what kind of lights ( or anything else for that mater)we can use, or tax us according to the choices we make. Now if we can just get rid of those damned

(water saver)1GpF toilets that you have to flush 3 or 4 times to get it all to go down.

[Drives]

Tom:

AMEN to that!

And yes, my old dusty medals agree, it is better to die free then yoked by our foolish govt.

PS  I would like to say thanks to all the men & women who served, to keep us free.

[Volvo farmer]

I hate the government meddling in my affairs as much as the next guy but I'll play devils advocate for a minute here.

We have a 1954, 5 gallon flush toilet in our current house. We also have a 2003 1.6  gallon flush model and it works WAY better than the old toilet. It's the cheapest $60 toilet we could buy at home depot and it washes the bowl better than the other one and never gets clogged up

Refrigerators, even ten years ago were using 600-800 KWhr/year. It's common to see new ones in the low 400's now. This is directly because of government regulation. Not many people would buy an efficient fridge based on a $2/month savings but I sure am glad to have the efficient ones around at reasonable prices if I'm making my own power.

Don't get me wrong. I want to be free to do what I want, any old time. But look at the Europeans. They have been using front loading washing machines and on-demand hot water heaters for decades now... mostly because their governments are dinging them in the pocketbook if they don't conserve energy.

It's a slippery slope but as much as I want governments to keep their laws off my body, I have to admit there are positive aspects of legislating a tax on energy consumption.

[terry5732]

In the United States our government was elected largely by the uneducated masses who don't know what CFLs are.

Common sense is very scarce these days here.

It would seem the more the government has become involved in education in recent times the dumber the masses have gotten.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson ( maybe Samuel Adams? ) who thought the new constitution was real nice but we would need a revolution in about 15 years to root out the entrenched polititions.

We are well overdue.

[wildbill hickup]

In the general lets say un-RE population I've found there is still alot of misconception about CFL's, some don't realise the power savings, some think their to expencive, some thing they put out some uncomfortable light, even a few that I've met, like Woof did, don't even know they exsist. This past summer I did some odd jobs for a friend (he is a builder) on his own house, We spent alot of extra time installing layer upon layer of insulation I think we finally wound up with R60 in the roof and R22 in outside walls. However when laying out the light fixtures I watched him go completely towards incondesent. I questioned him on it and suggested some florecent lighting and he said he didn't like the light that florecent bulbs put out. We discussed further and I found that he was completely unaware of the power savings. In has kitchen he has 9 recessed can lights all of which were supposed to take 40 watt incondecent indoor floods that's 360 watts every time he flipped on the switch. I told him he could get more light from those same fitures with just over 100 watts. He didn't really need more light but the new 5/40 watt CFL's weren't availible at the time. He got curious and we discussed more and finally wound up with CFL's replacing incondesents (about 25 inside and out)and 24" florecent tubelights in the closets(still doesn't like the flicker but their not used much). For a total savings of over 1000 watts, he was amazed and he found that the CLF's produced 'better light' than he thought. Just an example of non-education even in the folks that should know. I know he will be pushing CFL's in the houses he designs and builds from now on.

If the gov (US anyway)does anything they should spend a little of that (nuclear, coal, oil,etc.) subsidy money on some education for the general masses about alternitives.

Sorry this got so long

Wildbill  

[Norm]

  It's not only about CFL's ...

What about LED's for flashlights?     So I give my neighbor a LED flashlight...One that is

brighter and last about 10 times longer than

a regular incandescent bulb.....

 ...expecting him to come over right after Christmas telling me all about how

amazing this gift was......(Hello ? well its

into and past New Years and I haven't seen him

yet !)

              Wonder what it takes to

wake people up ?

          Ah Well....Only thing to do is

keep trying.....

                  (  >) Norm.

[Norm]

   My neighbor only uses 25 watt bulbs...I told

him about 11watt CFL's being as bright as a

40 watt 'regular' bulb ...."Naw...too bright...

I don't like the glare of a 40 watt bulb"

    How do ya win with logic like that?

               ( :>O  Norm.

[paradigmdesign]

"Now, having said all that, I don't believe it's the government's job to regulate my energy consumption."

Why not, it should be.  Being that the consequence of you using more energy has an effect on everyone, be it through pilloution, or a tighter supply of energy, not just you wallet.  That is unless you are creating your own energy  But even then, the materials to build your energy system, steel, wood, resins, and copper all have a large impact on the enviroment.  Kind of like the addage that 80% of the emmissions related to autos, are involved in the manufacturing process.

By taxing incadesent light bulbs, suv's, and other pillouters, you are finially attaching an economic price to the enviromental damage that you are creating.

Wasting energy is not a right, and should be punishable.

[Don Cackleberrycreations]

Amen

   Seems very sad that so many have forgotton the sacrifices of our soldiers in less than two generations. Our government inacting the same types of laws  their fathers and grand father fought and died to free europe from.

   To the good men and women who have served A heartfelt Thank you.

I was fortunate to serve during peace time though un like those running this country I still stand by my oath. I consider the passing of laws which subvert the constitution to be nothing less than treason.

 Keep your energy tax ideas . The government should obey the laws set down restricting its power

sorry to rant

[willib]

thank you for your opinion. the purpose of this post was to ask for opinions , the next time i think of mentioning the G word and the T word in the same sentence i will think twice .

[Don Cackleberrycreations]

sorry Will

the cureent G is a sore spot.

people should conserve  and many would if they knew how .

Of course you also have to contend with the real life issue that utility companys  dont encourage real conservation niether do businesses. consider which sells more a standard bulb or CF . the CF waistes less engergy and lasts longer so companies dont sells as many as often, the proffet margine is roughly the same. So encouraging CFs over standard is from the producers stand point bad for business. Same goes for the power companies.The less energy people use the less proffets the company makes. for companies its like shooting yourself in the foot but they dont care about tomorrow as long as a buck can be made today.

    As for people in general what is sad is that those who have the money to spend are often those who can afford the eletric car, or well insulated home. where as the poor sucker can barely afford food on the table and is stuck renting a house with no insulation and driving a 20+ yr old gas hog . Yes some of us poor folks do our best to improve our standings and save what we can . Growing our own food, producing our own energy and turning off the lights. Two many are short sighted , they have been taught to be short sighted by our disposable economy . why spend $2 for a CF in the bath room when they can get 4 standards for 50 cents, They dont understand the savings because its not instant. Taxing them further wouldnt change this unless you taxed standards to the point CFs were cheaper. Besides the taxes raised would just get funneled into  some yawt club marina wasting hundreds of gallons of fuel for a hour long cruise.

[willib]

Glad you brought up LED flashlights, this is one of the coolest ones i've seen ..

when it runs low you just crank the handle a few seconds , and you are good to go !!

it is sort of disassembled at the moment i was checking out the gear ratio and what not.. I have seen them recently at Lowes for $ 17.00 , two dollers cheaper than what i paid about six months ago..

[theTinker]

you will be pleased to know that the EU gov is now making the huge monoply electric company here pay huge amounts for its CO2 output(its the largest contributor in our country). the jacked up prices of electricity to compensate but even the normal masses are starting ot watch power and try the energy saver bulbs now. and there was an ad in the new paper about how bad electric kettles are and i have heard everyone talking about it

[farmerfrank]

Incandescents aren't really all that bad in winter. Going with CFL and then having the furnace making up the extra heat doesn't make much sense.Nowadays we must also think where the energy is coming from. Its probably much better to use a little extra coal-fired electricity than is it to burn more gas or oil in the furnace. The oil and gas will run out soon enough. Lets save it for transportation and food and leave the government out of it.

[finnsawyer]

Remember the movie "Logan's run".  Reach the age of thirty and you're history.  So, get to the point where your productivity doesn't justify your use of energy and you're history.  That would be the ultimate regulation of your energy use.  let's hope it never comes to that.  And keep in mind that all those government bureaucrats are using energy and mostly just interfering with your freedoms.  So, why not make them get real jobs and let the market place sort out the energy costs.  Not very long ago the story was that a natural gas water heater cost less to operate than an electric.  Well, look at the cost of gas today.  I mention this because my girlfriend just paid $125 to have the thermocouple on her four year old gas water heater replaced.  This is the unseen side of energy costs.  I never saw an electric water heater I couldn't fix, but I don't carry thermocouples in my tool box.

[Don Cackleberrycreations]

$125 for a $3 thermocouple

sure hope she at least got a kiss

[elvin1949]

Wildbill

 You are verrrrrrry right.

You have to teach people about the cash saving's.

All of my neighbour's have MUCH lower electric

bill's every month now.

later

Elvin

[elvin1949]

you say' The government know's better than you,

how you should live.

Not Me    I don't want any politicion pissing in my drinking water.

later

Elvin

[elvin1949]

Norm

 The lady next door thought i was nut's

UNTIL i replaced 4 bulbs in her house with cfl's.

I bought the bulb's.

These were lights that were burning 24 hour's a day.

Her light bill dropped 25 dollar's.

SHE told the world,now everyone around use's cfl's.

later

Elvin

[elvin1949]

DrD

outhouse work's for me.

later

elvin

[elvin1949]

AMEN

later

Elvin

[dinges]

Yes,

It does make sense to use CFLs and at the same time turn up the heat (as long as you're not heating electrically).

You must take a broader view, and look at the total efficiency of the entire chain, from coal/gas/neutrons to energy at the point-of-use. You will notice that electricity is horribly inefficient, over the whole chain, perhaps only 30% of the energy in the original energy carrier (coal/gas/neutrons) gets to be delivered to your doorstep. Now if you start using that precious little inefficiently (incandescents), well, you should get the idea.

Peter,

The Netherlands.

[dinges]

But, have you struck a deal where you get, say, 10% of what they save

Free money!

Peter,

The Netherlands.

[dinges]

Yes, I'm very pleased,

living in Europe (NL) and paying myself blue in taxes and tariffs. Being part of the normal masses, I do have to think very carefully whether I will make a trip in my car (gas at 1.35E/liter), or whether I will turn on the laundry machine today or in a few days.

Let the market do its job, silently, efficiently, ruthlessly.

I too don't like being used by people (I don't want to be used by).

Peter,

The Netherlands.

[Volvo farmer]

I'd charge about $90. If it was my first call of the day, I'd not have paid my cost of doing business back until the second or third call. Remember when you call a repairman, you're paying for his advertising, insurance phone, truck, tools, gas and so on.

Or you can just change the thermocouple yourself, they sell em at the hardware store.

[finnsawyer]

I'll have to check that statement about the thermocouples being available at a hardware store.  Around here you have to special order anything unusual, if they can get it.  You try being out of hot water for a week.  In this case she was also paying for: a Saturday call; the repairman's wage; the companies overhead; $16 bucks for the thermocouple.  Your $90 for the call seems to be standard today for a weekday repair call.  You kind of missed my point, though.  Four years is too short a time for any kind of failure on the water heater, and it does push up the cost of the hot water.  Just for the record, a couple of weeks ago I replaced a (also 4 year old) gate valve on the same installation.  Saved her the $90 call on that.  But there is no way she could have done it herself, and I imagine that applies to a lot of consumers.  So, I'm saying that maybe people should forget the gas water heaters with their modern fancy smancy controls and opt instead for the simpler electric ones.  Reliability is still a factor, just like with the CFLs.