Author Topic: Yawing Stresses  (Read 1344 times)

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SparWeb

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Yawing Stresses
« on: June 05, 2006, 05:35:11 AM »
I made a simple set-up for a test-stand.  Nothing more than a post in the ground with a thing I got at the hardware store.  




I was just running up a quickly cut set of blades.  I was quite impressed when they got going, but the site is very gusty from most wind quadrants.  The stud was bent while the turbine ran.  Studying the gusts suddely became the focus of these tests, and I've been able to analyze the loads in the following report.


Yaw_Analysis.pdf


These loads were applied by a wooden rotor, 6 ft diameter, that was carved from a typical 2x6 board.  Larger rotors will have much higher inertia, but the response to a gust would be stronger, so the effect could go either way as you scale up the size of the windmill.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 05:35:11 AM by (unknown) »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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dinges

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 03:16:30 AM »
I notice you've used a 2-bladed prop. You may get more useful results by using a 3-bladed one I think. I seem to remember that 2-blades ones did have an 'issue' with yawing. Perhaps others can explain better.


Peter.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 03:16:30 AM by dinges »
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wdyasq

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 05:04:42 AM »
Peter,


One of the things few think of is what is happening in the "lift" of the airfoil as the blade rotates. As that happens each blade goes through a maximum lift, then stalls and sometimes goes into a negative lift angle af the apparent wind changes due to the furling angle. In a two-bladed prop these two events happen at near the same point of rotation on both blades.  This sets up a push from maximum lift and pull from negative lift at similar times. The "tower shadow" effect also gets involved in the same angle range.


IMO, this is what causes two-blade turbines to have some of their problems.


Ron

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 05:04:42 AM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

SparWeb

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 12:51:33 PM »
Actually, that's no mystery.  I worked out yesterday some "airflow vectors" and it's obvious that even a small gust can eliminate the lift on one blade and stall the other, especially when the mill is starting up, and still slow.  With the lift lost, but drag magnified by the stall, the thing slows down.  Ultimately, it becomes hard for the 2-bladed prop to start, though once it gets going, it's less vulnerable to gusts.


The 2-blade prop was purely for educational purposes.  This goal has been achieved.  I do expect to make a 3-bladed prop out of wood once I get through experimenting with my alternator.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 12:51:33 PM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

willib

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 03:24:18 PM »
Hi SparWeb

How did you measure the rpm?

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 03:24:18 PM by willib »
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wdyasq

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2006, 07:48:20 PM »
Stephen,


Obviously, you have the ability to think and analyize and have done so.  It is a good report.  I like how you "simply" backed out the information.  My brain hadn't gone there on wind projects.


2 bladed props shudder very well when furling.  As you have reasoned this on gusts, you can see the problems built into such a system.


Thanks,


Ron

« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 07:48:20 PM by wdyasq »
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Flux

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2006, 01:44:15 AM »
The 2 blade case is always bad, but the gyroscopic force during yaw is a problem with any number of blades in a turbulent area. Your example was an extreme one but it does show that even for a modest size prop the loading on the alternator shaft during violent yaw is considerable.


Fortunately it is speed related and the big machines are much slower in yaw and seem less troubled by these things than some of the smaller ones.

Flux

« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 01:44:15 AM by Flux »

SparWeb

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Re: Yawing Stresses
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2006, 04:48:36 PM »
I have an aircraft engineering background, and there are some fundamental numbers that you use no matter what type of aircraft you have.  They come from experience with the tried and true.  This tradition isn't as apparent with wind turbines, so whenever I get a chance, I try to find a few "basic" facts.  The gust yaw rate may be like that, but some of you are already thinking it's proportional to mill size, so I'd have to qualify the numbers if they are to be useful for any prop other than this exact one.

I've found some "rules of thumb" for tail size and length recently, and I want to put a bit of research into that, too, though they do work well.


Willib,

If you look in my diary, you will find my entry on RPM measurement.  I'm currently using a bike speedometer.  I chose one with nice Max and Avg speed memory features, really handy.  The speedo is not visible in the photo above.  I built a second, similar mount, so stay tuned, a photo of it will inevitably appear soon.


From Flux: "Fortunately it is speed related and the big machines are much slower in yaw and seem less troubled by these things than some of the smaller ones."


Imagine how hard it is for the professional guys, who have to design for gust GRADIENTS that are stronger on the blades going through the top of their arc, and weaker on the lower blades.  A recent peek at the NREL design requirements for the large types of mills really put me in my place!


PS: My windmill is simple enough that no analysis on any topic should be so complicated that it takes more than a page.  I will try to keep it simple!

« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 04:48:36 PM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca