newbie treatment, and thoughts

[bob g]

i decided to post this after some thought, following the other post that seems to have taken a rather convoluted turn.

my thoughts on newbies and repetitive questions:

perhaps one should consider the possibility that a newbie that pops up with a

basic/rehashed to death question might have something to offer, if he doesnt get

blown off, offended or just plain pissed off.

i am thinking that maybe every now and then a newbie with a dumb question, poorly related or outlined, poorly researched or whatever might just be one of the following.

1. a master machinist, retired with a bunch of tools, time and ideas.
   
2. a supplier of interesting products, such as wire, magnets, brgs etc.
   
3. a woodsman in sitka, sitting on a shed full of spruce, dry and waiting to share
   
4. an engineer, with a lifetime of information available.
   
5. someone with a large tract of land in a catagory 5 area, that wants to sell
   
   

   off plats

6. a guy with a bunch of old windcharger, jakes or whatever.
   
7. a guy that works in a battery plant, or a supplier
   
8. , a guy with a junk yard?
   
9. etc etc
   
   

even a moron has something to offer if you take the time to get to know him, or

alternatively he may know one of the above.

answers are often found in the most unlikely of places.

bob g

[nanotech]

Heh, I fall into category 3.  I ask some of the most rehashed and stupid questions on here and I live on 10 acres of Poplar and White Oak.  

[nanotech]

Oh, and quite a bit of it I want to cut down.....

[WXYZCIENCE]

The poplar or the oak? Is that dumb enough? Joe

[windstuffnow]

  I agree Bob, there was once a time where we all started by asking those dumb questions.  Actually, we were searching and the questions only seemed "dumb" to those who already knew the answer.  Being ignorant doesn't make you stupid, stupid is not asking!  We were all ignorant on some topics...

.

[Countryboy]

The aforementioned types of individuals need DIRECTION.  Without direction, their abilities/resources are of no benefit to others.

You are essentially recommending that we take the time to analyze every new participant, and then give them direction.  However, I believe your plan is flawed.  This forum is for DIY RE.  

Folks with no direction and DIY do not mesh.

I won't even go into your list of things they might offer.  I'm a machinist/engineer/woodsman/farmer with enough old junk to be considered a junkyard.  (In short, I'm a jack of all trades, but master of none.)

My perception is that you are looking for people you can use.  You haven't looked at how you can develop a mutually beneficial relationship.

A newbie who asks a basic/rehashed question might also be merely a lazy idiot.  I suspect you will find more lazy idiot newbies on here than folks who will let you use them.

My 2 cents.

[Volvo farmer]

Hehe, I fall into category number 8.

This whole editing business is a can-o-worms. The more I think about it, the more I think it is truly an impossible task to satisfy everyone, yet give us a nice, clean, focused discussion.

It seems most people agree we don't want spam, that's pretty obvious. Newbie stupid questions? Well.. My opinion is that if they are stupid enough, nobody will respond. Picture size too large? My connection is now off cell towers, a little faster than dialup, but still awfully slow so I'm all for limiting picture sizes, but couldn't it be done with software? Try to upload a big picture and get an error message, no human intervention necessary?

Sorry, I'm kind of dragging this in a different direction than where you were going but I have also been thinking about this lately. I come to a place like this for a sense of community. To be quite honest, I don't think I'll ever build my own wind turbine. I like the off-grid, make your own electricity, DIY with junk, part of this board. However, this is primarily a site about building your own wind turbines. Google thinks so too and it is in the financial and intellectual interest of the owners of this board to keep the subjects focused on wind power for the most part.

Now here's the fly in the ointment. When I come to a place I call my "community", I want to be able to talk about all kinds of stuff. Maybe I want to discuss LED lighting, or wood stoves, or wind-up alarm clocks. These topics are of interest to RE people, but not necessarily in the scope of what this board is about.

So from my perspective, we have opposing forces here. One the one hand, we could have a "sense of community" board where we can talk about sports and what happened with our girlfriends last night. On the other hand we can have a strictly wind power forum, where anything not related to wind power gets edited out.

This place seems to fall somewhere between those boundries, which is good. The thing that makes me feel bad is when I go to my "community" with a (possibly dumb, yet RE related) question and it dissapears off the face of the earth, with not even a chance to get ignored by thousands of people. I think I am not the only one who has had this experience, hence the current hullabaloo about editing and editors. People have had their feelings hurt, they're confused about their postings that dissapear and they speak up about it.

 

[willib]

"LED lighting" , i've seen it on here in the light section.

"wood stoves" , yep , under heat section..

"wind-up alarm clocks" ..  acceptable in diarys

"I don't think I'll ever build my own wind turbine."  say it aint so.

but, but, you have the perfect spot for one....

what state is your new place in anyway?

"DIY with junk" , i'm still laughing at that.

[electrondady1]

this forum is great ! ive been coming here 2.5 years now and have learned so much . one thing ive noticed in that time is when someone who was totaly green(like myself)  gets some understanding and then passes it on to the next set of new guys.

the atmosphere of "the old board " must have been wonderful but with 6ooo members, how could it remain the same.

i love the international/global aspect. i check the sight twice a day. in the morning i can see what the aussies ,asians and  europeans have been up to and at night what the people in this hemisphere  are doing .

v. farmer i may never get much p.v.stuff going but i think the tracking device you made is unique.

my old school moto was, "wisely improve the present".  that's what i see when i come here , a lot of people takeing steps to make things better. and a whole bunch of people trying to give others a leg up.

[bob g]

countryboy:

"My perception is that you are looking for people you can use.  You haven't looked at how you can develop a mutually beneficial relationship."

This sort of statement amazes me, i have been here for a long time, just not much lately.

back a few years we were working on a new generator design, and were offered by one of the Dan's free magnets to accomplish the task. to date i have not asked for them, and i likely will never take them up on the offer. i will however purchase them when i am ready.

i was sent a set of free blades for testing from a great guy that frequents this board, reguettably i have not found the time or made time to work with them yet and it has been years. i have however offered to purchase them, and he has refused payment.

So you perception is somewhat skewed my friend, would i use someone for what they have to offer in material or labor? hell no!

would i use their mind for what they know? hell yes! and one would be a fool not to.

as far as mutually beneficial, sure that is how the world goes round. It just spins more freely when folks work together. seems ludicrous for everyone to go out and reinvent the wheel. Should you go back and search a bit, i think you will find i have been a willing participant in things related to AE. i also wonder how you figure that using someone cannot be mutually beneficial?

 i tell you what, if i have a stash of neo's, that you want, and i have a question that has plaqued me for years, and you have the answer and want to purchase some magnets, you damn straight i would trade or sell at cost. is this example not mutually beneficial?

i dunno, i am trying not to take your perception to heart, everyone is entitled to how they feel i suppose.

my perception is perhaps you don't know me well enough to make that accessment

bob g

[A6D9]

i just want to say thank you for this post.

allot of the legends have seen allot of questions.  but us newbies are allready very intimidated to ask.

and some times we try to do research or have a custom question that can;t really be answerd with a search.

and all they get is yelled at.

I'm not saying i had that happend to me, but i have seen it,

[Volvo farmer]

Oh I have a wind turbine, I just cajoled DanB into building it for me :-) The tower will be my responsibility, that's why it ain't done yet. I'm in Southwest CO.

[solarengineer]

Well Said, i'm category 4.

it may be frustrating but it keeps the list alive and people aren't intimidated to ask questions!!

I've heard a fellow here basically call everyone on the list stupid, there are 5000+ of us..

Hopefully new people will still feel welcome!

It's a wonderful resource, perhaps a doos/donts email send on new memberships or something.

Jamie

[coldspot]

I

Am # 9

I post about stuff I have not seen or read and I do a lot of research.

I've read way back to the old board on many things.

I post about stuff I know to just put it in here and hope

to be of help to others.

I also post my ^#%*& UP's, because maybe somebody else won't do them as I've done

I also post in my Diary about the stuff I'm collecting and what I'm building

I hope people understand that I don't have a shop or a garage to work in so what

I've done has been in my lap or on the back steps. LOL

But I've seen bad replies to questions asked and I try to never be like that.

I enjoy this site and hope to hang around here a long time.

[srnoth]

Hey Volvo Farmer,

I couldn't aggree with you more. I still don't actually make any electricity myself, nor does it look like I'm likely to in the near future, yet I still come to this board several times a week just to see what others are doing. And as you say, the questions I think are silly, I just skip by.

And I have asked my fair share of silly questions too, in fact in my first ever post on this site a few years ago, I was told I was crazy, and shown pictures of people with acid burns and stuff like that, lol. However, even though people told me that some of my ideas were very flawed, some down right deadly, I was still welcomed by most, and encouraged to improve my ideas, not just give up on them because they were 'stupid'. That is what I love about this place, and why it pains me to see some new people treated roughly or as if they were idiots. We all were AE idiots at some point.

But about the posts disappearing and stuff, it is not only that an Editor has deleted them. Several times my posts just dissappeared, and I was so pissed off about it that I email DanB and he said that he did not see why they should have been deleted, and that it was probably a software problem, and he got my post back up within a day.

Anyway, I'm glad to see people discussing their frustrations out in the open like this, cus I'd hate for good people to turn away and leave just because they felt they were treated badly.

Cheers,

Stephen.

[terry5732]

I wonder how many have been killed or maimed because their stupid question was deleted and no one had a chance to say  "DON'T DO IT ! "

[commanda]

my thoughts on newbies and repetitive questions:

My thoughts on the board in general, not just newbies;

First, some observations;

It takes all sorts to make the world go round.

Getting answers out of Google is something of an art that not all have mastered. There are 4 people in my household, and I swear I'm the only one who can successfully get answers out of Google.

It is better to keep your mouth shut & be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Second, my comments;

SO, when a newbie comes along; point them in the right direction if you can, even if it's just a "Google blah-blah-blah".

Or a short "been there, done that, doesn't work. AND this is why.......".

If the topic isn't in your particular field of expertise, hang off for a day or two before trying to respond, and let those who are expert in that field address the matter.

If you have nothing good to say, say nothing.

Engage brain BEFORE hitting the post button!

Amanda

[SmoggyTurnip]

What really bugs me is when someone asks a simple question

and someone spends a bunch of time telling them that they

need to do more research using capital letters and an abusive

tone when answering the question or giving a link would have

taken the same amount of time.

.

[dinges]

Give a man a fish and he will have food for a day. Teach him to fish and he will have food for the rest of his life.

Peter.

[electrondady1]

i was thinking that when refering a newcomer to google search it would be helpfull to give them a term to search.

 as in all areas of specialized knowlege there is a lingo that needs to be learned in order to converse.

[jmk]

 I know I am guilty of asking some stupid quetions. I didn't think it would get anyone mad. I am sory if I afended any of the people on this board. I don't want any of you to hate me. I want and look at all of you as my friends. Maybe a section for newbies is needed here so we don't afend anyone. It would be an area where anyone who wants to help guide and maybe answer some of the newbie questions. Then the people who are angry wouldn't have to go to that section, and a post that is thought to be stupid could posibly be answered in a new way that sheds light to even some of the more experianced people. This would give the editers a place to put alot of the post that are deleated. I think the answer to little boxer Franks question was answered by the post on real big home built. Can anyone get there? Yes! Look at what this guy built in seven years. Can you or I build it probly not but it gives hope shows us the horizion to dream for. That is for the people who don't hate the grid power.  

[jpl]

I enjoyed this board for awhile, then ran afoul of the very thing that is being discussed here and stopped watching it for some time.  Today I had some time on my hands and wandered back here.  I am pleased to see this topic being discussed, and hope that it is an indication that the tone here has shifted.

I think it all boils down to what the owners of the board want it to be.  Is it a place that encourages people to learn about and start doing home-brew renewable energy, or is it just a place for ten or twelve guys who have been at this for awhile to hang out and discuss the latest tweak they made to their system.

Either is fine, since they own the board.  I, for one, have no use for the latter and wouldn't be welcome anyway.

thanks,

jpl

[inode buddha]

Dunno what to say, except maybe I'm all of the above? I've seen this happen in other online forums such as slashdot way back in the day. It's really a social problem IMHO, ppl tend to vet each other out and find their own level. So to keep in mind that a technical answer isn't the answer to social problems, here is what I would do:

Really strongly emphasize the FAQ's so that n00bs can't miss it. Re-direct them there rather gently if need be. Be totally honest and explain why, without any nastiness.

As for myself, I'll be happy to be able to buy a few mags and lbs of wire this year. Being totally stuck in urban/suburban USA, I'll probably have to use mechanical power occasionally. But I'll still build the genny myself, and post pics I hope.